Seeking Advice

[Chase55671]

Group,

After making corrections to the below photo, I got nabbed with PEQ. Any suggestions on what I could do in order to increase the chances of this type of photo being accepted?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=749403&key=693481694

I was thinking I may be return to this spot later tonight. If so, would it be a good idea to maybe focus on the signal in the background? Maybe shoot the back of it, and it lighting up the woods, signal cabin, foreground, rails, and tunnel portal with a red or green (depending if an oncoming train is present) glow? The above exposure was F8 at 25 minutes, ISO 200.

Thx.
Chase

[asis80]

Chase, those signals are just WAAAAAAAAAY too much. I think you would have been fine with a bump in ISO and a shorter exposure for this one. The bursting is just way too much. Try to get it so there is minimal bursting (you know what I mean, correct?).

Ben

[Walter S]

Sorry Chase, It doesnt do anything for me, looks like a poorly done dusk shot not a night shot.

[Dennis A. Livesey]

Sorry Chase, It doesnt do anything for me, looks like a poorly done dusk shot not a night shot.

Sorry Chase. Walter said it for this one.

[Chase55671]

Well, I appreciate the feedback! I was basically just trying to get a feel for what the result would be at 25 minutes.

Obviously, by the feedback I've received, not the best result ever. :)

Thanks!
Chase

[Dennis A. Livesey]

Testing is great and is how we find ways to create new images. You saw what 25 minutes look like and that is useful information. I have a better idea myself now.

We all need different eyes sometimes cause we can't see the faults ourselves.

Except me of course.

:razz:

[Walter S]

Thats also the result you would see from one of the uber ISO cameras, 100,000 ISO lol

[cblaz]

I was basically just trying to get a feel for what the result would be at 25 minutes.

Why 25 minutes? If you're not doing star streaks, which obviously you're not, what's going to be different in a 25-minute exposure from a 3-minute exposure?

- Chris

[Chase55671]

Why 25 minutes? If you're not doing star streaks, which obviously you're not, what's going to be different in a 25-minute exposure from a 3-minute exposure?

- Chris

A 3 minute exposure would show absolutely no detail. A 10 minute exposure at ISO 100 showed zero detail. The 25 minute exposure was basically just a test to see what would happen. I figured 25 minutes at ISO 200 would get me somewhat close to being well exposed. I liked the result of the approach indication lighting up the ballast in the foreground, and the brush over on the other side of the rails. This is the result I was somewhat anticipating, since I was relying only on the light provided by the signal.

Chase

[asis80]

I think, Chris, the direction he was going in was to light up the scene so we could see the tracks and the surroundings. Which if there was indeed a train to light up the scene, I think would have been a better effect. The glow that the signals are putting out are just killing it, not to mention the blown out signals that we see are quite blinding. Test shots are wonderful, Chase. Use them. Especially at night when there's a few combination of aperture and shutter speed PLUS ISO you can mess with. Like I said, I think the direction you were going in was to light up the scene with the signal light, which you did, but in turn you fudged up the signals. Watch those long exposures too, even with a low ISO you still will get "sensor burning". A quick cloning job could get rid of some pixels being burnt though. Good luck in your future attempts.

Ben

[Chase55671]

I think, Chris, the direction he was going in was to light up the scene so we could see the tracks and the surroundings. Which if there was indeed a train to light up the scene, I think would have been a better effect. The glow that the signals are putting out are just killing it, not to mention the blown out signals that we see are quite blinding. Test shots are wonderful, Chase. Use them. Especially at night when there's a few combination of aperture and shutter speed PLUS ISO you can mess with. Like I said, I think the direction you were going in was to light up the scene with the signal light, which you did, but in turn you fudged up the signals. Watch those long exposures too, even with a low ISO you still will get "sensor burning". A quick cloning job could get rid of some pixels being burnt though. Good luck in your future attempts.

Ben

Ben,

I did use an oncoming train for some light, but since the shutter was open for 10+ minutes prior to the arrival of the train, the headlight really didn't effect the image too much.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=749577&key=697208674

I had the shutter open for 17 minutes in that above photo. I was just basically looking for a different effect than the same 'ole streak of a train knocking down a signal.

Chase

[asis80]

Once the train passed, did you close the shutter? What was the Fstop for both? A balance of the two is key. You just have to play around with it. Some will say leaving the aperture open (or closed, kinda like half empty half full thing, ANYWAYS) to F13 is a starting point. For me, I start wide open. I really do, as open as it will go to get a feel for the shot.

[photoid=294245]
For that one I left it open, only for the fact that there's really no ambient light to mess with except for the glow Altoona is giving off in the sky. This also gives the headlight a stronger presence because you aren't filtering out as much light as if you would using a higher Fstop (smaller aperture).

[photoid=294946]
Same deal with this. I wanted a shorter exposure, so I have to let in more light, smaller Fstop (wider aperture). No real ambient light to worry about here and the headlight illuminates the entire tunnel.

[photoid=294586]
I had to think here, "I want the area lit up by the headlight, so I need a longer exposure. If I use a wide open aperture, it's going to be way too bright and the signal will star burst". So therefore, for a 47 second exposure for me to get the scene lit up and have the signal indications change and light up the side of the Amtrak, I need a aperture of F10.

The key here, like I said, is balancing. For that 2nd rejection chase, I would have started the exposure about 5 seconds before the train came into view (depending on how fast the train was moving) with an aperture of F10 (as in my above shot) or like most people start out with, F13. Let it light the scene, and if you want no FREDS stop it a few seconds after. You'd be surprised how much light you let in even with F10 or F13. And if you shoot raw, there really isn't an issue if it's too dark or too bright. RAW still applies the same with your daytime shooting.

Again, what really kills both the shots is the bursting. Take the above advice, and I think it'll help out a lot. You don't need a 25 minute exposure for a 50 second shot. Remember, balance. And you'll be set.

Ben

[Chase55671]

The key here, like I said, is balancing. For that 2nd rejection chase, I would have started the exposure about 5seconds before the train came into view (depending on how fast the train was moving) with an aperture of F10 (as in my above shot) or like most people start out with, F13. Let it light the scene, and if you want no FREDS stop it a few seconds after. You'd be surprised how much light you let in even with F10 or F13. And if you shoot raw, there really isn't an issue if it's too dark or too bright. RAW still applies the same with your daytime shooting.

Again, what really kills both the shots is the bursting. Take the above advice, and I think it'll help out a lot. You don't need a 25 minute exposure for a 50 second shot. Remember, balance. And you'll be set.

Ben

Ben,

F10 would've resulted in an underexposed photo, in my opinion, thus why I would've chosen F8 as a more logical aperture. F10 in a pitch black location, relying strictly on the light of a train moving at somewhat decent speed would've made the photo too dark. I personally do not think the light of the train would be enough to really expose the photo correctly, especially if you kept the shutter open the entire time the train passed, as I normally do.

At the same location in my original rejected image, I have tried the streak using the headlights of the oncoming train for my primary source of light, as clearly seen below. I started the exposure around 3" prior to the train rounding the curve.

[photoid=299699]

Photo was taken at F8, 402 seconds, and ISO 100. The photo received a very small amount of post processing adjustments. I've found that adding exposure, shadows, etc. to a night photo will reduce the quality, or atleast increase a lot of noise/grain into the image, regardless of the ISO.


[photoid=294586]
I had to think here, "I want the area lit up by the headlight, so I need a longer exposure. If I use a wide open aperture, it's going to be way too bright and the signal will star burst". So therefore, for a 47 second exposure for me to get the scene lit up and have the signal indications change and light up the side of the Amtrak, I need a aperture of F10.

While far from being a "bad" photo, I still find the noise/grain to be rather distracting. Perhaps it's my "star burst" monitor that is giving the photo a noisy appearance? If not, then I would presume that you added exposure in PS in hopes to balance out the exposure? A problem that could've been resolved without the help of photoshop, but by simply reducing the aperture to F8? I don't think the signals would've been too overexposed, but perhaps a bit more brighter, which necessarily isn't a bad thing, since the photo isn't close to being overexposed as it stands now. I'm glad you did not extend the exposure, as that would've most likely weakened the streak, which is never too appealing.

Not starting an argument, so don't take it the wrong way. Just throwing in my advice. I enjoy a good and civilized discussion on my favorite sub-hobby of photography. :)

Chase