Can these be helped?

[MNJRR]

I dont know what happened to the quality of the norfolk southern one i have to look into that, but what can be done with the grey GP9?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=775373&key=756284478
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=775371&key=395408817

[Chase55671]

I told you off list, Keane that the GP9 is unlevel. Not sure why you need a bunch of forum contributors to tell you the same thing. The rejection stated that it was unlevel and soft. The simple solution would be to level it correctly and sharpen it some.

The NS one looked good at first glance, but it's compressed, or something looks off with the quality. Perhaps you edited the edited version multiple times, thus reducing the quality?

Chase

[Joe the Photog]

There is some PIQ going on in both of those shots that the screener put down to undersharpened, which technically it is. Me thinks you're probably shutting on eithr full auto or aperture priority. I'd lower the ISO to 200 on sunny days if not 100 and shoot on full manual. I'm not sure that it's the way you shot it; it could be the editting, too.

Now here's what I see. The NS shot is busy. There are some shadows which some could say are distracting. I could go eithr way on that. The shot looks kinda out of focus to me, which can be considered an entirely different animal than undersharpened. It's a tad over exposed. Did you shoot RAW on this one? If so, it's an easy fix. If not, it can still be fixed with proper processing.

But the shadows along with the close cropping is too much for me personally.

[Doug Wolfe]

Hi Keane: Do you have photo editing software? If so, both will be quick easy fixes...especially the second one.

The first one does look on my monitor to be a little off. Do you still have the original image to work with? I would do the corrections off of a new image.

Also, I was typing my comments when Joe made his. I think he makes some great points.

[troy12n]

The NS one is soft and a lot of distracting things in the back ground (power lines, poles, a tree growing out of the locomotive), shadows on the railcars. All of this makes it something I would likely not even try to submit. Does not look like a very good location even if you had good light.

The second one is awful tight crop and soft, not to mention unlevel. Give it 1-2 deg CCW rotation and sharpen it up a bit, it may be salvagable. It's an ex-Amtrak GP9 right?

[Joe the Photog]

I had to get up from the computer for a second. Onto the GP9, as someone else mentioned, it's very tightly cropped. That was actually the first thing I noticed before it being unlevel. The tightness is going to make leveling it a bitch because you then have to crop it tighter. Are these cropped any at all out of the camera?

It also hs some of the PIQ as the first one. I'd love to see more of a side view of this one.

[MNJRR]

the GP9 was cropped tight due to objects on both sides and it was also a verticle shot, yes its an ex amtrak engine and both were cropped

[Joe the Photog]

the GP9 was cropped tight due to objects on both sides and it was also a verticle shot, yes its an ex amtrak engine and both were cropped
Then reshoot the trains elsewhere.

[MNJRR]

yea i'm probally going to have to, i'll hopefully be out chasing the GP9 again tommorow and maybe even monday.

[MNJRR]

Now what about something like the picture below? I just did a fast crop and resize but am i on to something or no? My only thought is maybe the brush on the side is too much of a distraction.

[troy12n]

No, you need to find a better place to shoot, that spot has too much bad going on. Are those trash containers?

[MNJRR]

yea i figured so, a majority of the line has too much going on, alot of brush usually. Those are actually soil containers. Atleast thats what they're using them for.

[coborn35]

I like the second one much better.

[D.Massey]

I like this shot, crop it a little tighter by taking some off the left and bottom.

Doyle Massey

Now what about something like the picture below? I just did a fast crop and resize but am i on to something or no? My only thought is maybe the brush on the side is too much of a distraction.

[Andrew Blaszczyk (2)]

No, you need to find a better place to shoot, that spot has too much bad going on. Are those trash containers?
Again proving my point you know nothing about photography and composition. "Too much bad going on"? First of all the line is tough to shoot regardless of where you are on it. Secondly, that is where the train and photographer happened to be together and he made the most out of it which I think turned out nicely. Stored cars on the right, engine pulling more cars out of storage while a crewman rides the steps in nice light. The typical clutter one would get at any other angle is out of the way on the left. Would you like the vegetation to be green, the cars to be spotless, brand new hoppers with a signal bridge overhead coming out of a tunnel? This line doesn't have any of that. It is what it is.

[photoid=312207] Congrats!

[MNJRR]

Thanks andrew and i'm glad you understand how tricky it is to make a nice shot on the line. Hopefully i'll be out tommorow and monday and i can grab 1 or 2 more nice ones.

[coborn35]

Congrats!!

[D.Massey]

Congrats Keane on the Top 2 of past 24 Hours.

Doyle Massey

[MNJRR]

thanks, and its gone before i ever saw it there.

[Joe the Photog]

You don't need my word on this, but the second version is obviously much better than the first. It shows a slice of railroading, cramped spaces, underbrush growth, etc. Even so, you've given the shot room to breathe, in effect. The shot doesn't feel tight and confined like the first one did, but it shows the tight and confined area the crew is in very well.

[Freericks]

I think the key in Andrew's comment, which is spot on, is that you need to shoot in a way that you capture what the operation and the environment are.

I really regret that in a lot of my older shots I just concentrated on the locomotives, and did not bother with what the line looked like or what it did.

[cblaz]

No, you need to find a better place to shoot, that spot has too much bad going on.

Troy, I'm going to be in Florida soon. Want to come out and show me how to shoot so my shots don't have too much bad going on? I really got to start avoiding all that bad. It's everywhere.

- Chris

[stevenmwelch]

Troy, I'm going to be in Florida soon. Want to come out and show me how to shoot so my shots don't have too much bad going on? I really got to start avoiding all that bad. It's everywhere.

- Chris

I thought you threw away your camera and took up stamp collecting...

Seriously, Troy, you need to stop. I've yet to find one positive thing you've said (but then again, I don't read a lot of your posts just because of the negativity)... Like everyones mothers said.. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

[troy12n]

Seriously, Troy, you need to stop. I've yet to find one positive thing you've said (but then again, I don't read a lot of your posts just because of the negativity)... Like everyones mothers said.. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

You know, I have kept quiet about this and let you all pile on the last couple days.

Let's look at the chain of events here, and you can come up with your own conclusions.

(in chronological order)
1. MNJRR submits 2 photos, they get rejected
2. MNJRR posts in this thread asking for suggestions
3. Several people (including myself) give suggestions. Many of these suggestions are exactly the same, and spot on
4. At least 2 people (myself not being the first) suggest that this may not be the best location(s) to take a shot due to several reasons
5. MNJRR agrees, and thanks for the suggestions
6. Time passes, MNJRR re-submits a completely different photo (not just a completely different crop, a different photo), which looks 100% better than either of the first 2 submitted (nice work)
7. The photo is accepted to RP.net
8. Around the same time one of the screeners makes a point to put his comments in said photo
9. Around the same time one of the screeners makes a point to post a real personal, inappropriate (IMHO) ad hominem attack against me critisizing my photography skills and hotlinks the accepted photo.
10. Afterwards, several other people pile on me (but not others who made similiar comments)

Just putting all of this in perspective. You all can read between the lines if you want on some of these points, but I feel it is very inappropriate for one of the site staff to be making ad hominem attack against someone in the web forum. Especially singling out one person, and not others who made similiar comments. This isnt the first time it's happened from this particular screener either and not just against me, but I feel the need to stick up for myself. I dont know where all this negativity comes towards me, I have certainly made some incorrect assertions at times, but I dont straight up come out and attack people. Well, maybe once in that Rockville thread. I can certainly take criticism, I have no problem with that, but some of these attacks are a little over the top. Especially when initiated by site staff, I think that's out of line.

[troy12n]

You don't need my word on this, but the second version is obviously much better than the first. It shows a slice of railroading, cramped spaces, underbrush growth, etc. Even so, you've given the shot room to breathe, in effect. The shot doesn't feel tight and confined like the first one did, but it shows the tight and confined area the crew is in very well.

Agreed! 1000%

Congrats on getting the pic in, its a much better shot than the first one.

[milwman]

You know, I have kept quiet about this and let you all pile on the last couple days.

I dont know where all this negativity comes towards me

This forum is about teaching, not about telling them they take bad photos, Hell we all still take some that don't work you just don't see us put them up here. Think you would just advise how to fix a photo no one would say boo. :-)

[troy12n]

This form is about teaching, not about telling them they take bad photos, Hell we all still take some that don't work you just don't see us put them up here. Think you would just advise how to fix a photo no one would say boo. :-)

Ok, point taken, but it's not like I told the guy he takes bad photos and critisized him, I didnt. I gave pretty good constructive advise in my first post actually.

But one of my points is others posted the exact same suggestions and they dont get railed on, not to single this guy out or get anyone else in trouble

Then reshoot the trains elsewhere.

If you want to talk about insulting re-read http://forums.railpictures.net/showpost.php?p=108867&postcount=15

[Andrew Blaszczyk (2)]

Just putting all of this in perspective. You all can read between the lines if you want on some of these points, but I feel it is very inappropriate for one of the site staff to be making ad hominem attack against someone in the web forum. Especially singling out one person, and not others who made similiar comments. This isnt the first time it's happened from this particular screener either and not just against me, but I feel the need to stick up for myself. I dont know where all this negativity comes towards me, I have certainly made some incorrect assertions at times, but I dont straight up come out and attack people. Well, maybe once in that Rockville thread. I can certainly take criticism, I have no problem with that, but some of these attacks are a little over the top. Especially when initiated by site staff, I think that's out of line.
I don't mean to take this thread off topic but since the photo was accepted let's review:

A. Someone asks for advice on railfanning around Harrisburg, PA. You give a response in which you say there is no train traffic on the 40+ train a day mainline and give inaccurate information on railfanning the area. You also gave a description of the area which again was way off. If you do not know the area in which someone is asking about, don't respond. One visit for 4 hours doesn't make you an expert.

B. Someone asks for advice on a "bad cropping" rejection. You may or may not have responded to the OP (I honestly don't remember) but then you call out the CR detail shot for no reason whatsoever. If you didn't like, fine, don't bring it up saying "WTF" and "why was this accepted". There is more to railroad photography than just shooting the entire locomotive and by calling out this photo when it wasn't warranted proved you don't understand this.

C. Someone asks for advice about shooting in the rain not whether he should or not. You respond with "I just stay inside when its raining, best bet to do the same." That's not a tip about shooting in the rain. No need to post if you aren't going to contribute anything useful.

D. I apologize if you were talking about one of the original two rejections when you said <b>"No, you need to find a better place to shoot, that spot has too much bad going on. . . ."</b> I thought you meant the photo the OP attached that was eventually accepted. If you were talking about that photo, what kind of advice is that? And what does "that spot has too much bad going on" mean? That is not helpful, it's an opinion.

I'm not picking on you, there are others who simply respond to a rejection thread with opinions rather than helpful tips but they are usually proved wrong before I read the thread. It seems like you (and some others) like to post just for the sake of hearing yourself rather than actually trying to <i>help</i>.

If you want to be helpful use the rejection reasons to describe what is wrong with the photo, not personal opinion. If you don't like it there is no reason to say so unless the poster asks for opinions on the photo itself and not why the photo was rejected.

[troy12n]

A. Someone asks for advice on railfanning around Harrisburg, PA. You give a response in which you say there is no train traffic on the 40+ train a day mainline and give inaccurate information on railfanning the area. You also gave a description of the area which again was way off. If you do not know the area in which someone is asking about, don't respond. One visit for 4 hours doesn't make you an expert.

Ok, yes, I made myself look like a horses ass in that thread. Point taken, but It has nothing to do with this thread.

B. Someone asks for advice on a "bad cropping" rejection. You may or may not have responded to the OP (I honestly don't remember) but then you call out the CR detail shot for no reason whatsoever. If you didn't like, fine, don't bring it up saying "WTF" and "why was this accepted". There is more to railroad photography than just shooting the entire locomotive and by calling out this photo when it wasn't warranted proved you don't understand this.

Again, has nothing to do with this thread, why even bring this up?

C. I apologize if you were talking about one of the original two rejections when you said "No, go find somewhere...". I thought you meant the photo the OP attached that was eventually accepted.

I was talking about the 2 photos the OP had linked to in post #1 of this thread, the photo which you hotlinked I dont think had not even been accepted at that point and we cant see rejected photos unless someone links them, if it had been, I had not seen it, it's a nice photo and I commented on it as such. I just did not appreciate your comments at all, the fact that others piled on AFTER you made them bothers me less, I think they were very inappropriate, especially coming from site staff, who should "rise above" such things.

I this this dead horse has been beat enough, I am done with it, and am letting it go. Apology accepted, lets move on...

http://www.tamparacing.com/photopost/data/3235/deadhorse.gif

[milwman]

Ok, point taken, but it's not like I told the guy he takes bad photos and critisized him, I didnt. I gave pretty good constructive advise in my first post actually.

But one of my points is others posted the exact same suggestions and they dont get railed on, not to single this guy out or get anyone else in trouble




Like AB2 put it, It was more then the last post that got them worked up. The last one wasn't all that bad just the wording was a bit off like mine can be. Don't take it like a knife is in you back just have to watch what we say to some as there a bit pissy as they don't understand the whys and buts yet.

[JRMDC]

I'm not picking on you, there are others who simply respond to a rejection thread with opinions rather than helpful tips but they are usually proved wrong before I read the thread. It seems like you (and some others) like to post just for the sake of hearing yourself rather than actually trying to <i>help</i>.

Well, you actually did pick on Troy. He certainly deserved correction but you didn't exactly show him a higher level of forum behavior. Neither of you have been at your best in this thread in my view.

If you want to be helpful use the rejection reasons to describe what is wrong with the photo, not personal opinion. If you don't like it there is no reason to say so unless the poster asks for opinions on the photo itself and not why the photo was rejected.

It's a fine line, or perhaps better said, it is a very broad line! For example, Chase recently posted asking about bad color, and my response was my personal opinion that it wasn't that good, which he certainly did not ask for but was subsequently appreciative of. I don't think that original post content limits responses, if those responses are offered in reasonable and polite ways. It is quite common for thread discussions to venture away from the original rejection reasons.

Troy's problem, I think, is accuracy, not intent or motive.

[JRMDC]

Again, has nothing to do with this thread, why even bring this up?

Reputation matters. If you have series of bad posts we all notice! It affects how people perceive your subsequent posts.

[Andrew Blaszczyk (2)]

It's a fine line, or perhaps better said, it is a very broad line! For example, Chase recently posted asking about bad color, and my response was my personal opinion that it wasn't that good, which he certainly did not ask for but was subsequently appreciative of. I don't think that original post content limits responses, if those responses are offered in reasonable and polite ways. It is quite common for thread discussions to venture away from the original rejection reasons.

Troy's problem, I think, is accuracy, not intent or motive.
I think it depends on the OP. Some people don't care whether you think the shot is awful or the best thing ever, they just want to know what "bad color" means and how to fix it. Others will take the criticism. I think its best to answer the question asked rather than giving an opinion at least when it comes to some of the newer members. That is where we differ, I suppose.

Agreed.

[JRMDC]

That is where we differ, I suppose.

Fair enough. :)

[MNJRR]

let me put my say in here as well. Troy i get what you were saying when you said it has too much going on, but the way you said it is quite discouraging as i almost didn't bother uploading that shot that got accepted as it was from the same place. As andrew had said your point was pretty invalid as the accepted shot is from the same place you dubbed too busy. There was no need to keep arguing over something so stupid, this topic has nearly doubled over this argument, thats crazy.

[Joe the Photog]

I believe if you go back and look, Troy was not the only poster to tell the OP he should find a better place to shoot. One of my favorite forum members gave him the same advice -- me. Turns out he had a good place picked up; he just choose the wrong shot to feature, somethng I've done a time or two hundred myself.

[MNJRR]

well i got 2 shots rejected today, one for oversharpened (simple fix) and this one for a PEQ, my only guess is they didn't like me being in the middle of the rail. I was on a road crossing and the train wasn't moving. http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=777324&key=1059733622

[JimThias]

well i got 2 shots rejected today, one for oversharpened (simple fix) and this one for a PEQ, my only guess is they didn't like me being in the middle of the rail. I was on a road crossing and the train wasn't moving. http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=777324&key=1059733622

Did you explain that when you submitted it?

Oh, nevermind, I see it in your caption now. Hmm...don't know what to tell you then.

[JRMDC]

Doesn't RP frown on such shots, regardless of crossing and such, because the photog is standing in the gauge?

[nikos1]

I dont think there should be a issue if the train was stopped, ive sent in a shot from within the gauge and stated that the train was stopped and tied down and what not and it got in. The shot does have some interesting things, I like those switchstands and the old school flatcar. However the train is directly centered and all you have is the long hood of the unit, i do get why you did this since you have no side light, not sure what to do with this one.

[JimThias]

Doesn't RP frown on such shots, regardless of crossing and such, because the photog is standing in the gauge?

[photoid=230179]

http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/4.gif

[JRMDC]

I recall it all incorrectly, then.

[MNJRR]

Interesting, I've stumped the railpics forum. I shot it that way for 2 reasons, no light on the engines side and I thought it made fir a good scene with all the cars

[Chase55671]

I've found that it depends. Perhaps it varies depending on who is screening, what is stated in the remarks and the overall composition.

Usually if you state that you were taking it from a grade crossing, it seems to be accepted, especially if the composition is dramatic enough.

If the train is coming towards you and you're standing on the grade crossing, I would imagine a PEQ would definitely be provided, but perhaps subjects that are going away (such as what Jim posted) or subjects that are stationary are acceptable.

Chase

[MNJRR]

It was stationary and I stated that and the fact I was on a crossing in the screener comment section no real way to prove it's stationary though.

[MNJRR]

anyone else have any ideas for that reject? should i just wait a while and try again? or is everyone stumped as i am. I have another shot, exactly the same except i was just out of the guage, maybe that would be better? http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=777704&key=0 rejected for bad cropping now... maybe they dont want it, i fixed the over sharpness

[Joe the Photog]

The NS PEQ shot has the train directly in the center of the frame. Very ho-hum cropping. The better shot is the most recent reject and it needs leveling CCW. Likewise, the shot is too centered with the grey GP right smack dab in the center. With the cars on the right half cut off and the switch way off to the left of the frame, you've got bad cropping. You may be trying to do too much with this shot.

Although what do I know?

[MNJRR]

with 4,198 posts i'd say you know nothing, i'm just kidding. I have other versions of these pictures i'll have to look at, you could be right i might be trying to include to much, not sure though.