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View Full Version : NJ Gov. Sticks by Cancellation of New Hudson River Tunnel


jnohallman
10-27-2010, 05:10 PM
In what appears to be an incredibly shortsighted move, Gov; Christie has decided that commuters using rail transit to get from NJ to NYC and back don't need any improvement in capacity over what is available from a century old 2-track tunnel.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101027/ap_on_bi_ge/us_trans_hudson_tunnel

Jon

crazytiger
10-27-2010, 05:16 PM
What a shame... That was very short sighted.

ShortlinesUSA
10-29-2010, 07:19 PM
Or you could look at it from the other side-- a tough decision during tough economic times. If you know there will be a couple of billion in overruns and you don't have the money, you don't buy it, unlike most of our politicians are accustomed to doing these days. Fiscal responsibility is tough medicine.

Ween
10-29-2010, 11:45 PM
If Christie's doing it, it's gotta be right!

Freericks
10-29-2010, 11:50 PM
I'm guessing Chris and Mike that neither of you have ever lived in NJ and commuted into NYC.

ShortlinesUSA
10-30-2010, 02:15 AM
I have lived in NYC, but commuted from Queens. That still doesn't change the fact that if you can't pay for it, you don't do it. That's a mentality long absent from all levels of government. That said, if it is that desparately needed, a way to fund it should be found, and tough choices made in prioritizing where limited funding is needed most.

Freericks
10-30-2010, 02:39 AM
I'm really hoping not to get into a political discussion, but I do want to point out that building infrastructure has huge benefits way beyond anything that makes sense to straight out number crunchers.

Witness the Republican decision to build the Interstate system.

Witness the Democratic decision to build TVA and Boulder Dam.

trainboysd40
10-30-2010, 02:53 AM
Isn't he planning to use federal money specifically given for that sort of project on repaving roads instead? If so, that's damned dirty.

Freericks
10-30-2010, 03:11 AM
Yes. He says the saving is on the hypothetical overruns, the number for which he is claiming it to be is considerably higher than others have estimated.

In real dollars, this move does not save a red cent. It only undermines the particular project in question.

Chris Kilroy
10-30-2010, 04:22 AM
Supporters of the project an idea that has been on the drawing board for about 20 years said it would create 6,000 construction jobs and thousands more jobs afterward, as well as ease train delays in a region with one of the nation's longest commute times.

Wow, 6000 (temporary) construction jobs for the bargain price of only $9 billion! That works out to $1.5 million per job; what a steal! As to how a new tunnel which basically only enhances an already existing route creates "thousands more jobs afterward," I'd love to hear someone explain that.

The "blue states" where this kind of unadulterated spending has gone on for decades (California and Jersey are both right at the top of the list, Charles) are teetering on the edge of insolvency. Going a further $5 to 9 billion in debt because some people think we "need it" simply doesn't pass muster anymore... not when we're in debt up to our eyeballs with no foreseeable way out.

New Jersey is in fiscal crisis for the ages, and good on Gov. Christie for having the courage to make the tough (and sometimes unpopular) decisions!

Freericks
10-30-2010, 04:48 AM
Roy LaHood, who disagrees with those numbers, is a Republican.

There is a huge financial loss every day that you have a couple million people taking an hour and a half to travel 8 miles (three hours total a day). Think of how much money is being thrown away by permitting that situation to continue.

I could easily be wrong, sure... but it reminds me of people who save money by not putting new tires and brakes on the car, because they can't afford it. As my grandfather (the son-in-law of a Republican Congressman) would always ask, "Well, can you afford the funeral?"

jnohallman
10-30-2010, 06:42 PM
As to how a new tunnel which basically only enhances an already existing route creates "thousands more jobs afterward," I'd love to hear someone explain that.

Perhaps the missing word there is potential, but think of it in these terms. By "enhancing" the existing route, the plan would essentially double the number of commuters who could be moved from NJ into NYC within the same amount of time. In theory, that also doubles the potential number of laborers available to employers in NYC from that region, which would enable greater business growth than otherwise. Now, admittedly, there are other ways for those potential employees to get into NYC, though perhaps less efficiently. You also have to consider that a lack of convenient transportation is likely to slow growth in the region generally, as people who might otherwise move into the area to pursue opportunities choose not to because of the transportation challenges.

Jon

jnohallman
10-30-2010, 06:48 PM
Something else to consider here. In order for Governor Christie to be logically consistent, he should also cancel any other infrastructure project that the state of New Jersey is spending money on that adds capacity. In other words, if building the new tunnel only serves to augment existing capacity, but can't be justified in the existing climate, neither can any road widening job. No new roads from point A to point B if people can already get from point A to point B to another, albeit inferior, route. No added runways aty any airports within the state. Again, this is a matter of being logically consistent. If adding capacity is not a legitimate reason for spending money on infrastructure in these economic times, don't do it anywhere. Because all projects are subject to cost overruns, not just this one. How about only spending money on repairs where not doing them subjects the public to potential disaster? In other words, if a bridge is in danger of collapse, ok, fix it. If a road has a bunch of potholes and the primary risk is people needing to pay for more front-end alignments, don't patch the potholes. It'll save a lot of money!

Jon

Ween
10-30-2010, 07:46 PM
If a road has a bunch of potholes and the primary risk is people needing to pay for more front-end alignments, don't patch the potholes. It'll save a lot of money!

That actually helps the local economy. Ask any alignment place!

BTW, Christie 2012 and/or 2016! The best thing to come out of New Jersey since...well, ever!

jnohallman
10-30-2010, 09:26 PM
BTW, Christie 2012 and/or 2016! The best thing to come out of New Jersey since...well, ever!

Aren't you forgetting about Snooki? :p

Jon

Freericks
10-30-2010, 09:39 PM
That actually helps the local economy. Ask any alignment place!

BTW, Christie 2012 and/or 2016! The best thing to come out of New Jersey since...well, ever!

Dude... I come from NJ!

:-)

jnohallman
10-30-2010, 11:03 PM
Dude... I come from NJ!

:-)

And you have all our sympathies . . . :lol:
Jon