Chinese Say China HSR Unsustainable

[JRMDC]

the Chinese Academy of Sciences is expressing concerns about the build-out of high speed rail in China

http://www.echinacities.com/biz-china/business-topics/chinese-academy-of-sciences-high-speed-rail-construction-201.html

Some commentary, also the source from which I learned of the report and got the link above

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/12/should-china-rethink-high-speed-rail/67282/

[lock4244]

10,000 miles of high speed rail = one fast way to bankruptcy. Freight pays, passengers drain. Looking at the airline industry in the US, which survives largely due to Gov' largess, a large investment in passenger rail will only drain the coffers of the nation. Nice to dream about (maybe) but not economically feasible.

[JRMDC]

Concern about Chinese HSR with respect to construction quality, specifically, fly ash in the concrete.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/is-china-overreaching-on-high-speed-rail/69490/

[troy12n]

Looking at the airline industry in the US, which survives largely due to Gov' largess

Care to explain? I travel quite a bit and I cant tell you the last time I did not have a 95% full flight.

That is due to demand, not government largess. Last time I rode Amtrak (5/2004 I think), it was a complete joke patronized by what looked like the very old, the very poor and the very unbehaved.

[Freericks]

Care to explain? I travel quite a bit and I cant tell you the last time I did not have a 95% full flight.

That is due to demand, not government largess. Last time I rode Amtrak (5/2004 I think), it was a complete joke patronized by what looked like the very old, the very poor and the very unbehaved.

The government largess has to do with the fact that if you add in all safety, airport, ATC, etc costs that are being eaten by the government, then the passengers on planes are being subsidized.

As to your own experience on Amtrak... I both fly and take trains with some regularity and I have not had a similar experience. Most Amtrak out here is quite full. I think the problem that Florida has, frankly, is that there is not enough service for it to make sense to a business traveler.

I have been on flights with drunks, people who did feel the need to bathe, nose pickers, farters, arm-rest warriors, loud talkers, crying babies, and the like.

[Freericks]

As an aside, if you hate trains that much, why are you on this site?

[JimThias]

That is due to demand, not government largess.

43.5 years on this earth and on Tuesday, January 25 at 11:08 pm, this is the first time I've ever heard of or seen this word.

[Freericks]

changed my mind

[JRMDC]

43.5 years on this earth and on Tuesday, January 25 at 11:08 pm, this is the first time I've ever heard of or seen this word.

Live a little, Jim, Try a section of the newspaper other than the comics.

[jnohallman]

10,000 miles of high speed rail = one fast way to bankruptcy. Freight pays, passengers drain . . . Nice to dream about (maybe) but not economically feasible.

Actually, passenger service is not automatically a drain. The system in the US which gives economic preference to automobiles and planes (federally subsidized road construction, airports, air traffic control, government operated navigation aids, etc.) is what drove railroads out of the passenger carrying business. The most recent edition of TRAINS magazine, which focuses on high-speed rail, is enlightening in this regard. Among other things, it points out that in Europe, high-speed rail is in fact self-sustaining over the long-term. The key is that you have to accept the fact that it will take 30 years or so for receipts to pay off the initial investment. But take a look at the NEC here in the US. It is actually profitable. What made the NEC possible was tax breaks and government aid which allowed the Pennsy to make the investment in the infrastructure during the Great Depression. For that matter, what do you think the Union Pacific would look like if it hadn't been for the government investment in the construction of the original transcontinental railroad?

As far as concerns about the success of high-speed rail in China, I'd think it would be more an issue of taking shortcuts to get things done quickly on the one hand, and trying to make it work in a country where most people live on an income of next to nothing. High-speed passenger rail can be profitable in the developed world. Problem is, most of China is still actually a third world country.

Jon

[jnohallman]

Live a little, Jim, Try a section of the newspaper other than the comics.

Actually, Jim's right. It's largesse.

Jon

[JimThias]

Live a little, Jim, Try a section of the newspaper other than the comics.

:lol: Good one.

Yeah, I guess this word somehow escaped me all my life. Since I read that post by Troy, I've yet to hear/read that word again. I'm guessing it's probably used often on the NYT crossword puzzle? :wink:

[JRMDC]

Actually, Jim's right. It's largesse.

Jon

Either spelling is acceptable.

[Freericks]

Actually, Jim's right. It's largesse.

Jon

both spellngs are correct

just like grey and gray

aeroplane or airplane

theater and theatre

[Greg P]

I've always pictured a transportation plan that uses trains to their advantages.

Short range day and commuter trips

Medium range day trips

Overnight city to city service.