PDA

View Full Version : Carolina Southern (?)


Pages : [1] 2

cassfan3
06-15-2011, 02:12 PM
Any word on what's going on down there in Chadbourne? I've been hearing some rumors go around. I'll be working in Charleston later this summer and the drive to and from there will take my right by the CALA.

Also, any other good shortline action near Charleston?

Thanks!

nikos1
06-15-2011, 03:20 PM
From what I've heard all their interesting power is either OOS or has been scrapped.

Joe the Photog
06-15-2011, 08:14 PM
I believe Nick is meaning the rumors that they are shutting down or either running very infrequently. I saw someone vaquebooking about it a few weeks ago. from an outsiders point of view, it seems they have run that railroad into the ground. Literally. But I haven't heard anything concrete.

ShortlinesUSA
06-16-2011, 02:18 PM
I have heard from someone I trust well that the FRA put several of the CALA's bridges out of service a few weeks ago, and they are for all practical purposes shut down. If they don't fix the bridges, all that would leave them is car storage around Mullins. I was through there a couple of weeks ago because they received a 90 car cut of BP covered hoppers for storage, and I was hoping I might catch them working. No luck, the hoppers were put away on the stub that used to be the line to Marion west of the CSX S line. Ex Yadkin Valley GP38 3617 was the only locomotive in town.

Not too much accessible shortline action around Charleston, as the SC Public Railways spends most of their time inside the fence on the downtown operation, and those at North Charleston and the former Navy Base tend to be very late day or night operations.

The East Cooper & Berkley (also an SCPR operation) runs afternoons from Charity Church to the CSX at State Junction, but the vast majority of the trip is against the light and the line pretty much has pine forest as scenery.

cassfan3
06-16-2011, 05:19 PM
That unfortunately doesn't come as much of a surprise. Was the CALA still delivering coal trains to the power plant in Conway? How are they being supplied now?

Thanks for the info as always!

...I wonder how long it will be before the CLNA buys them out...if there's any business worth saving left down there...

nikos1
06-16-2011, 07:31 PM
No one in their right mind would buy that line without the promise of some serious state or federal grants for trackwork, you cant run 80 car coal trains when your engines pilot is regularly scraping the rail, it just doesnt work.....

ShortlinesUSA
06-17-2011, 01:12 PM
The power plant at Conway operates sporadically. It is a reserve plant, essentially, only added to the grid during times of peak demand. However, with as hot and dry as June has been so far, I suspect demand is on the rise.

The more steady traffic has been rock to the Vulcan facility at Red Oak, but that seems to have decreased substantially over the past 6 months. The economics of this line is difficult, because it is essentially about a 60 mile branchline to Conway via a very circuitous route. A direct line from Mullins to Conway would be much more sustainable with the level of traffic present.

BR549
06-18-2011, 03:24 AM
The more steady traffic has been rock to the Vulcan facility at Red Oak, but that seems to have decreased substantially over the past 6 months. The economics of this line is difficult, because it is essentially about a 60 mile branchline to Conway via a very circuitous route. A direct line from Mullins to Conway would be much more sustainable with the level of traffic present.

Mike, Carolina Southern hasn't handled any rock for Vulcan in years. As a matter of fact, the old Vulcan yard at Red Hill has had the rail pulled up since Vulcan set up shop on CSX's Andrews Sub at Rains, SC (just south of Mullins). The rock they've been handling was originating at Martin Marietta's quarry in Lemon Springs, NC (just south of Sanford), and taken to a sales yard at Myrtle Beach. It's sad to mention that at the time the bridges were taken out of service, Martin Marietta rock volume from Lemon Springs to Myrtle Beach via Carolina Southern was the best it had been in five years at three trains per week. Martin Marietta is not going to wait forever for Carolina Southern to get their problems fixed. If they can't get their bridges back in service, Martin Marietta is gonna walk. And that'll put the nail in the coffin.

ShortlinesUSA
06-19-2011, 04:42 AM
Appreciate the correction. While looking at the S line on the Delorme before heading up to Mullins, I asked myself "What is signficant about Rains?" knowing I'd heard it. That answers that!

ShortlinesUSA
06-23-2011, 08:29 PM
Carolina Southern has put out an embargo notice for the line. There are 14 bridges out of service, starting just east of Mullins near the NC state line all the way to Conway. They will still accept cars for storage around Mullins, but that is the extent of operations for this railroad for the forseeable future. G&O black GP38 3617 is at Mullins. Most other power should be in Chadbourn and possibly some in Conway. Any unit not at Mullins is essentially stranded.

AntD.
06-23-2011, 11:34 PM
Carolina Southern has put out an embargo notice for the line. There are 14 bridges out of service, starting just east of Mullins near the NC state line all the way to Conway. They will still accept cars for storage around Mullins, but that is the extent of operations for this railroad for the forseeable future. G&O black GP38 3617 is at Mullins. Most other power should be in Chadbourn and possibly some in Conway. Any unit not at Mullins is essentially stranded.

If only I could win the lotto....

Joe the Photog
06-24-2011, 05:32 AM
Is that G&O power leased or bought?

ShortlinesUSA
06-24-2011, 02:54 PM
They bought the GP38s from G&O, they are CALA owned. As additional info, I heard from a friend yesterday that was through Chadbourn on Tuesday. He said the only serviceable unit there was one of the GP18s. Everything else was the standard deadline power. By process of elimination, that would mean there has to be more power in Conway or along the line somewhere.

BR549
06-28-2011, 01:55 AM
At least a month before the bridge in the worst condition is repaired.

ShortlinesUSA
06-28-2011, 03:30 PM
Appreciate the update! It's encouraging they are working on repairs. I figured the CALA was done as soon as the embargo came out, or would sit around and wait for someone to give them money to fix the bridges.

ShortlinesUSA
08-10-2011, 02:23 PM
Hearing from industry rumblings the Carolina Southern is soon to resume ops. Latest round of embargoes released does not include the CALA, so it looks like they may be back in action soon, if not already.

Joe the Photog
08-20-2011, 03:21 AM
Unconfirmed, but according to a post on the Carolina Rails Facebook page, there has been at least one train to Conway here in the last few days. The post was made by a railfan who got word from a friend. If I were writing a news story, this would never stand up as confirmation, but it'll do on a railroad message board, I guess.

ShortlinesUSA
08-21-2011, 01:22 AM
Did you not feel the bit from the guy who said CSX was taking it over was even worthy of railfan board rumor??? LOL

Joe the Photog
08-21-2011, 04:21 PM
Mike, I couldn't figure out if he was serious or not. It's one of those things that you almost hope is him trying to be funny.

BR549
08-30-2011, 08:29 PM
I don't know about the status of the entire railroad, but I do have confirmation that they have been coming out on the CSX mainline in Mullins several times per week for the last few weeks. I'm not sure as to the amount of tonnage their hauling now.

ShortlinesUSA
10-26-2011, 09:09 PM
Looks like the restart of operations we discussed above was very brief. The Carolina Southern is again out of operation, and things don't sound too good per this article. This line needs MAJOR work, something (in my opinion) way beyond that which could be assisted by a single county.

http://www.myrtlebeachherald.com/v2/content.aspx?ID=39128&MemberID=1807

Joe the Photog
10-26-2011, 10:22 PM
Under that article, there is a good comment from a user about the Pippins and the way they run a railroad.

BR549
10-27-2011, 12:46 AM
Under that article, there is a good comment from a user about the Pippins and the way they run a railroad.

And the user who made the comment hit the nail on the head.

ShortlinesUSA
12-23-2011, 02:14 PM
Latest update: No grant money from the feds. Very much an uncertain future for this shortline. The owners have made it clear they can't survive without outside assistance. Doubtful the counties have the level of funding to support what it would take to get this line running again.

TheOldMan
09-28-2012, 08:17 PM
I was in Nichols and Mullins, South Carolina two weeks or so ago for the first time in close to 3 years.

One black Carolina Southern locomotive on their track, before the stop sign gate before the right angle crossing of CSX.

The MarionCounty railroad was entirely clear of cars, but grown up in weeds, except at the turnout into a farm supply company.

In the 1990s up until my last times in the area, there were 3 pieces of rolling stock on that siding: an Old Dominion passenger car, a blue caboose, and a blue machine that looked like a locomotive wit no cab. This odd machne was similar to another one that was kept at the New South Forrest yard in Red Hill until B&A, d.b.a. CSRR, bought out Waccamaw Coastline.

In the years before my last times in the area, the Old Dominion passenger car vanished, and part of the siding was taken up.

For a number of years, the turnout at the farm supply company had the only noticeable switch stand on the Marion County railroad. The siding at the closed lumber company was also visible, but no switch stand.

On my trip to the area 2 weeks ago, the blue caboose was the only rolling stock at the farm supply company, and on the entire Marion County railroad.

The track around that area had been cleared of weeds, and there were some wheels with axles on the track.

There were no cars on the 2 runaround tracks in Nichols.

TheOldMan
09-28-2012, 08:19 PM
Here is a link to the latest news on B&A d.b.a. CSRR, from the Whiteville, NC newspaper.

http://www.whiteville.com/news/committee-looking-to-restore-rail-service-here/article_948c2a62-096a-11e2-bc88-001a4bcf887a.html

Joe the Photog
09-28-2012, 09:56 PM
This odd machne was similar to another one that was kept at the New South Forrest yard in Red Hill until B&A, d.b.a. CSRR, bought out Waccamaw Coastline.
It's amazing what you can find on Railpictures taken by me.

[photoid=34825]
I don't know the full story behind this one. You mentioned a similiar one on the WCL. They did have a NW2 locomotive that is now not too far from where you were over in Rains, SC, though it's been repainted. There are several shots of it on line in WCL-purple as well as the new paint job, though I myself have never actually seen it.

The Marion County Railway is abandoned, though as you saw, some parts remain somewhat intact.

Joe the Photog
09-28-2012, 10:00 PM
Oh, and another former Wacamaw Coast Line motor got a little time on national TV earlier this week. If you catch NBC's "Evolution" (or is it "Revoolution? I can't remember.) on a rerun or online, there is a sword fight early in the show that takes place in a derelict railyard. That railyard is the Carolina Southern yard in Chadbourn, NC and at one point they show the WCL GP18 #943, with her bad nose job, fading paint and stewn with weeds, as well as another unit or two behind her and some rail cars.

Look for another scene on that show soon with Hampton & Branchville 2-8-0 on loan from just up the road from me, the South Carolina Railroad Museum in Winnsboro.

TheOldMan
09-29-2012, 05:31 PM
Joe, thanks for the photos. I did take some video footage a number of years back at the CSX grade crossing of highway 76 when I was in Mullins: 2 CSR locomotives returning from leaving a train on the CSX runaround track, and a CSX thru train.

I had some footage at that same location of a CSX thru train of high bulkhead hopper cars, but haven't been able to find it lately. Maybe I accidently recorded over it.

I do plan to visit the Tobacco Museum in the Mullins depot buildinig when I have the opportunity.

Joe the Photog
10-01-2012, 06:59 PM
Here is a link to an article in the Myrtle Beach paper about the railroad's future. They held a public hearing and asked that the owners of the railroad not be there. Mr. Pippins says he'd consider selling. The counties want service back!

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2012/09/29/3085445/conway-based-railroads-future.html

TheOldMan
10-01-2012, 07:15 PM
Joe, thanks for the link. I bought the hard copy of the Sun-News yesterday, but had not found the story online today, so you've provided me with what I was looking for.

I was glad to see the comments, but the "additional photos" promised in yesterday's front page story were just the photos in the "continued on Page" page.

In that front page photo, I wonder why the boxcars and caboose have been backed up onto the West Kingston Lake bridge?

When I was last in the area, Saturday of going on two weeks ago, The tracks at the depot building were empty of rolling stock, although a passenger car was visible past the station building, toward the West Kingston Lake trestle.

Also, I discovered this story, which seems to be combined with an opinion piece, in SC Hotline.

http://schotline.us/solving-the-carolina-southern-railroad-problem/

BR549
10-28-2012, 07:26 PM
http://media.iadsnetwork.com/edition/2180/38792/a7dd3172-9ad2-46ff-93eb-0ba16a68a910.pdf

http://media.iadsnetwork.com/edition/2180/38792/73c1c661-84cd-45c9-8c99-5fdfa817e813.pdf

Here are links for the 2 pages of the October 10 issue of the Tabor-Loris Tribune which headline the first committee meeting with the Carolina Southern Railroad.

TheOldMan
10-29-2012, 04:26 PM
http://media.iadsnetwork.com/edition/2180/38792/a7dd3172-9ad2-46ff-93eb-0ba16a68a910.pdf

http://media.iadsnetwork.com/edition/2180/38792/73c1c661-84cd-45c9-8c99-5fdfa817e813.pdf

Here are links for the 2 pages of the October 10 issue of the Tabor-Loris Tribune which headline the first committee meeting with the Carolina Southern Railroad.

Thanks for the links, BR549. It seems to me that the editors of the Columbus County newspaper are much more interested in the railroad than the Myrtle Beach Sun News editors are, although the Sun-News dos eventually catch up with the quicker to report the story Columbus County newspaper.

I long for the Good Old Days of the mid 1980s, when the late Jerry Ausband, was the Editor of the Sun News, and every conceivable detail of the local railroad was reported in the moswt minute detail.

Driving along U.S. 501, one day I noted some ties along the railroad in Myrtle Beach.

The following day, the Sun News had a report on the tie replacement, with quotes from a SCL official, who said the ties were used yard ties, rather than new ties, since SCL was planning to file for abandonment of the Conway-Myrtle Beach track.

Also, there was an editorial in the Sun-News, saying that by installing used ties rather than new ones, SCL was strengthening their case for abandonment.

All of these reports and editorials on the railroad were a good motivation to get me out of bed in the morning, and get the day's Sun News to read of the latest railroad developments.

Sad to say, those days are Gone Forever.

R.I.P. Jerry Ausband. Your great newspaper coverage of the local railroad will Live Forever in the Garden of my Dreams and my Memories.

TheOldMan
10-29-2012, 04:35 PM
So far, I had not seen any Loris Tribune reports on the railroad. The one in the links above is very good.

Joe the Photog
10-29-2012, 09:51 PM
I don't understand what kind of partnership with SC Public Railways he's expecting.

TheOldMan
10-30-2012, 03:27 PM
I don't understand what kind of partnership with SC Public Railways he's expecting.

Neither do I, Joe but maybe we will find out something after the next committee meeting.

At one time, Horry County had a proposed operation of the Conway to Myrtle Beach track by the SC Public Railways Commission, withe the provision that the county would have to make up for any losses if that line ran in the red, but that proposal was never carried out.

TheOldMan
11-08-2012, 05:24 PM
Yesterday, I went to the third meeting of the Interstate Railroad Committee, the first meeting I have attended, in Loris, South Carolina.

The meeting lasted from 4:00 PM - 6:00 PM.

I did get a 9 page copy of the minutes of the last meeting, and found the Committee members all friendly to me, one of a few non-Committee members attending.

In the attendance log from the last meeting, there was one person listed as "Interested Citizen," along with other non-members.

Yesterday, there were a lot of newspaper reporters, probably as many as four.

Most of the meeting was held in executive session.

Joe the Photog
11-08-2012, 08:39 PM
Any talk about the SC Publi Railway possibility?

TheOldMan
11-09-2012, 04:18 PM
Joe, I don't remember much if any talk about the Public Railways in the public discussion, although there was a fair amount in the munutes of the last meeting, where the South Carolina public RR commission was described as a "holding company," and it during that meeting an official of that agency was asked if it could operate in North Carolina, and the answer was affirmitive.

Don't have the minutes with me to give exact quotes now, but can do so later.

ShortlinesUSA
11-12-2012, 05:04 AM
Interesting they descibed SCPR as a "holding company." I really wouldn't consider them as such. I guess if you consider a state agency that comes in and buys a line as a "holding company," SCPR would qualify.

If SCPR does step in, I would see them as buying the line outright and then either operating it themselves or contracting an operator. Is anyone aware they own some of the trackage the Pickens RR operates? This would be more along the lines of how I could see them being involved as a "holding company."

TheOldMan
11-13-2012, 10:23 PM
Last week, I did a transcript of part of the minutes of the Interstate Carolina Southern Railroad committe of North and South Carolina, from the meeting of October 8, 2012.

I accidently hit some wrong key, no idea which one, and it got lost before I could post it, and I couldn't recover it.

So, here it is again, from Section VII. Briefing and Discussion of Alternative Solutions to Immediately Get the CSRR Back in Operation and Discussion of the Longer Term Issues/Opportunities.

"Co-Chairman Wendel asked these three gentlemen to give a briefing on alternatives for the current railroad situation and the dilemma of not having funds for repairs. He asked them what funding opportunities are available in their specific areas and how to pursue those alternatives.

. . . Jeff McWhorter stated that S.C. Public Railways, created in 1969, is a holding company for three railroad companies, two of which provide switching operations within the state port facilities. The other company is a shortline railroad. They also own some other rail properties throughout the state. They were rolled into the S.C. Department of Commerce, largely because of their economic development role. Their funding is generated through the services that they provide. They are not a regulatory or a grant agency. Any money invested goes toward projects with an economic development component.

Mr. McWhorter was asked if he could operate in North Carolina, and he responded in the affirmative. He also confirmed, when asked, that his company is making a profit. Mr. McWhorter was asked if he and Mr. Pippin were to sit down and work out something, how long would it take for him to get approval. He responded that he and Mr. Pippin have been working together and have formulated a plan, and they have solicited and individual to assist with the evaluation process. Mr. McWhorter recently received the evaluation but has not had time to review it. Mr. Pippin stated that, from general knowledge, it would probably take 90-120 days. Mr. Pippin further stated, however, that he was not sure that this is the cure for the problem, and he posed the question to Mr. Frate as to the likelihood that the state would apply for RRIF funds.

Co-Chariman Wendel stated that he had been to Columbia to meet with the S.C. Secretary of Commerce, Robert Hitt. Mr. Hitt recognizes the importance of the railroad to the counties involved as well as the fact that the Pippin's have exhaused their alternatives for making the necessary repairs.

Co-Chairman Wendell then redirected the meeting for a discussion of the worst case scenario. He asked Mr. Pippin for alternatives if he could not work out something to get the bridges repaired and if he was unwilling to sell or lease the railroad. Mr. Pippin reiterated that there is federal funding available to address this type of problem but that apparently someone other than himself has to impress upon the federal government that this railroad is a critical piece of infrastructure to the counties involved. The followng two alternatives were identified:

*A relationship between S.C. Public Railways and Carolina Southern Railroad.

*A mechanism for a loan to Carolina Southern Railroad.

The question was asked as to whether there are any emergency provisions under the law that would allow intervention of some kind, and Mr. McWhorter responded that he iw aware that there are various remedies available but he is not well versed in them because he has never had to use them . . . "

Note: Mr. Frate, referred to above, is identified in the Attendee List for the meeting of October 8, 2012, as Doug Frate, Director of the Office of Public Transit within the Division of Intermodal and Freight Programs at the SC Department of Transportation.

BR549
11-26-2012, 01:35 AM
Attached are clippings of another article from the Tabor-Loris Tribune. The publish date would have to be November 14 or before, because I have just received a copy of the November 21 issue which has another updated article. Things are starting to get serious down there!

BR549
11-26-2012, 01:51 AM
And here is the November 21 article.

Joe the Photog
11-26-2012, 06:35 AM
I just don't know who has the pockets deep enough to come in and get this line back up to standards. Obviously I'd love to see it happen.

BR549
11-26-2012, 01:38 PM
I just don't know who has the pockets deep enough to come in and get this line back up to standards. Obviously I'd love to see it happen.

Nobody has pockets as deep as they'd need to be in this situation. However, let the railroad be bought by a reputable buyer, and I'm willing to wager you'll see some financial assistance.

ShortlinesUSA
11-28-2012, 02:00 PM
Keep your eyes on the "holding company." They have the money, and it is well within their mission of preserving rail service in the state to do this. As BR549 suggests, an organization of this stature (read: state agency, tied in closely with powerful DC politicians, such as Jim Clyburn) would open up avenues to financial assistance out of reach to the Pippins.

TheOldMan
12-01-2012, 02:59 PM
I went to the Interstate Railroad Committee meeting at Loris South Carolina, yesterday, and again it was mostly executive session, but was much shorter than the first meeting in November.

Did not hear whether there will be another meeting before new years.

TheOldMan
12-04-2012, 04:52 PM
In Loris, SC, there is a 12 or so car train of mostly boxcars, & one hopper car at an apparently closed warehouse.

Did not take any photos, but might do so later. The boxcars looked very much like those
on an outgoing train the CSRR locomitives had put onto the CSX runaround track a few
years back. I can get a screen grab of some video I shot of that train, for comparison
after I photo the train in Loris.

Joe the Photog
12-06-2012, 03:16 AM
I'm appreciating the updates, even if I don't always reply. Many thanks.

ShortlinesUSA
12-06-2012, 02:00 PM
Any locomotives with the cut of cars in Loris, by chance? I don't think it has firmly been nailed down (not that I've seen, at least) where all of the CALA locomotives are. I am assuming Conway, Chadbourne, and Mullins, but that of course is an assumption, and you know the rule on those.

And to second Joe's reply, these reports of the committee proceedings and sightings along the line are GREATLY appreciated. Thank you for taking the time and effort to post them and keep the forum up to date!

TheOldMan
12-06-2012, 02:39 PM
Thanks for the posts, Joe & Shortlines USA.

There was no locomotive with the train in Loris.

I haven't been on highway 905 in awhile, but there was a red locomotive at the depot there for a good while, but I did not see it, or any locomotives in the Sun-News photos.

Strangely, in one of those Sun-News photos, a boxcar, and some other rolling stock that was normally on the house track, was backed up onto the Kingston Lake trestle.

I was in Mullins, SC recently, and before the crossing with CSX, there was a black 100 ton locomotive, although I did not notice the number on it.

I did see some net photos of a black 100 ton locomotive pushing a car across the drawbridge into Myrtle Beach, & onto the defective Canal Street trestle, probably early 2011, & the number on that one is 4002.

So, unless CS has more than one black 100 ton locomotive, I'd think the one in Mullins(the only one there) was #4002.

TheOldMan
12-06-2012, 02:41 PM
One CSRR locomotive question I have, is the 50 ton Baltimore & Annapolis unit that stayed on the house track of the depot/tobacco museum, white with green lettering, a number of years back.

I know that CSRR has a Net list of all their locomotives, but have never studied it enough to see if that one is included.

Joe the Photog
12-07-2012, 12:11 AM
Should be an EMD SW9. Originally built as the Chesapeake & Ohio #5092 in 1953, to Baltimore & Annapolis #87, still painted and lettered for B&A. Like a lot of stuff on their web site, they "borrowed" that from a now defunct web site and someone who spent a good deal of time putting it together -- me.

TheOldMan
12-07-2012, 03:28 PM
Joe, thanks for the post!

TheOldMan
01-11-2013, 05:44 PM
The Interstate Railroad Committee meeting scheduled for yesterday at 4:15 PM in Loris, SC was cancelled and has not yet been rescheduled.

Joe the Photog
01-17-2013, 11:39 AM
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/01/16/3276816/myrtle-beach-area-railroad-to.html

Finally an update in the Myrtle Beach Sun News. Local leaders don't want the Pippns involved with the future of the railroad

TheOldMan
01-17-2013, 09:22 PM
Thanks for posting the link, Joe. That's a very long article which will take me a bit of time to read.

Joe the Photog
01-28-2013, 03:11 PM
There is a misguided Letter to the Editor about the Carolina Southern from yesterdays Myrtle Beach Sun News. The gist seems to be since railroads are more for the history books than anything now days, the county should not try to salvage the railroad. There's a lot of talk about the Conway depot as if the writer does not understand that the two issues are not the same.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/01/27/3295591/hear-that-lonesome-whistle-blow.html

TheOldMan
03-01-2013, 09:01 PM
Here is a link to a newspaper story, which raises some interesting questions, such as how long a Surface Transportation Board action would take.

My concern is that with the railroad closed now close to two years that if it does eventually reopen, their might not be any businesses that would still want to use it.

http://grandstranddaily.com/repairing-the-carolina-southern-railroad/

Such a situation would be similar to that of the Pine Island drawbridge taking 9 years to be repaired, and almost 13 years before the railroad east of the Waterway being reopened, and another 3 years before a new freight shipper, using a 2 car siding to move into a former lumber company that had moved west of the waterway during the time the drawbridge was closed.

Prior to the 1988 bridge closing the largest freight shippers in downtown Myrtle Beach were the beer and wine distributors, using 300 or more cars a year.

One of those shippers moved closer to Conway, and so far has not used the railroad again. And, the other beer and wine shipper had found the trains too slow to resuming using the railroad.

One lumber company with a 2 car siding is enough for the railroad to have been open and used for freight traffic from 2004-2012, but this experience shows just how difficult it is for a railroad to attract and keep freight shippers.

TheOldMan
04-12-2013, 06:19 PM
Next meeting of the Interstate Railroad Committee is April 17th, at 5 PM, in Loris, South Carolina.

Barring any unforseen hindrances, I am planning to attend the meetinig.

ShortlinesUSA
04-15-2013, 05:07 PM
Many thanks for continuing to keep up with this topic!

TheOldMan
04-18-2013, 06:08 PM
Yesterday, as usual, the Interstate Railroad Committee went into Executive Session, after which I left Loris, SC.

Took some not ready for prime time low rez, small file size photos of the train in Loris, I had previously mentioned. Closeups of individual cars will look better, although the clouds in the sky look good.

At first thought some of the boxcars were the same ones I had gotten on Super 8 vid tape, probably in late 2005, after the CSRR locomotives had put a train onto the CSX runaround track, but after seeing the Loris train up close, don't think so.

I'd think the Loris train is a storage train. Since my job is inventories, my wildest guesses usually turn out very accurate when I do an actual count.

First guess was 20 boxcars and one hopper car, but might revise it down by a few cars.

First photo is looking north, going out of Loris, and second photo is looking south, back toward Loris.

ShortlinesUSA
04-18-2013, 06:14 PM
Nothing like a public meeting that turns private! However, that could also mean something's in the works, and the parties do not wish to disclose proprietary information. Maybe we'll get some new news sometime soon.

Those cars look to be in pretty decent shape. Hopefully they'll get a chance to earn revenue again.

Thanks for the report and pictures!

TheOldMan
04-19-2013, 05:39 PM
[QUOTE=TheOldMan;164368...

...My concern is that with the railroad closed now close to two years that if it does eventually reopen, their might not be any businesses that would still want to use it.

Prior to the 1988 bridge closing the largest freight shippers in downtown Myrtle Beach were the beer and wine distributors, using 300 or more cars a year...

[/QUOTE]

To be a bit more precise about beer and wine shipments into Myrtle Beach, these figures were given on Page 35 of "Myrtle Beach Short Line Feasibility Study," by Horhorst Marine, Inc. of Rumson New Jersey, January 3, 1984:

Better Brands:
1982-196 cars
1983-180 cars

Stevens Corp(later Chrit Yahnis Coastal):

1982 --
1983-50

TheOldMan
04-19-2013, 05:46 PM
These stills are from a super 8 video I took in Mullins, SC, at the grade crossing of US 76, a short distance before the crossing of CSX & Carolina Southern, and the track connecting the 2 railroads.

First photo shows Carolina Southern lead locomotive going thru the crossing, followed in the second photo by locomotive with Mid Atlantic logo.

Third photo is of the outgoing train the 2 locomotives had put on the CSX runaround track, to the left of the crossing, facing US 76 to Marion & Florence.

Note one loaded lumber car, most likely from New South Forrest at Red Hill, SC, unless anyone knows of another company shipping lumber out.

TheOldMan
05-16-2013, 09:18 PM
Yesterday, I attended the Interstate Railroad Committee meeting in Loris, SC.

Below is a link to a news report on the meeting:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/05/15/3488700/railroad-committee-members-refuse.html

troy12n
05-19-2013, 02:59 PM
The owners of that RR have showed that they are a bunch of deadbeats and dont deserve one cent.

TheOldMan
06-04-2013, 03:55 PM
More difficulties for Carolina Southern. I had been wondering about rent accruing on the cars past Nichols, SC, which couldn't be returned to their owner railroads.

This link answers that question:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/05/22/3500171/myrtle-beach-area-railroad-sued.html

ShortlinesUSA
06-05-2013, 02:38 AM
NS must have brushed up on who owes them money. CALA isn't the only one with large sums floating over their heads right now.

This is frustrating to watch. I know for a fact other companies are interested. But they want to buy the line on the cheap, as they should. It's a big gamble to invest in this line hoping business will come. Present business and track conditions do not warrant a premium selling price.

TheOldMan
06-06-2013, 04:24 PM
Thanks for the post, ShortLines, USA. I am attatching 3 photos I took at the meeting of the Interstate Railroad Committe, at the last meeting of May 15 of this year, in Loris, South Carolina.

TheOldMan
06-20-2013, 07:04 PM
Latest news on Carolina Southern.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/06/19/3546337/railroad-fails-to-meet-horry-countys.html

troy12n
06-21-2013, 02:13 AM
Latest news on Carolina Southern.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/06/19/3546337/railroad-fails-to-meet-horry-countys.html

These guys are such deadbeat shysters. The County should move to seize the line and rolling stock and evict them.

TheOldMan
06-28-2013, 07:55 PM
Here's a link to a Whiteville News Reporter article before the Interstate Railroad Committee meeting scheduled for Wednesday, June 26 of this week:

http://www.whiteville.com/news/railroad-financial-woes-continue-to-get-worse/article_b55deaa6-dcd6-11e2-8b56-0019bb2963f4.html

I didn't go to the meeting in Loris, South Carolina, since I learned that it had been cancelled.

Here is a link to a Whiteville News Reporter article on the cancellation, and the rescheduling.

http://www.whiteville.com/news/railroad-meeting-postponed/article_1d582ca6-de68-11e2-b841-0019bb2963f4.html

Both of these brief stories had note to go to the NR for the full version. I don't know now whether the full version is an online subscription edition, or in the hard copy version, or possibly both, but will find out.

The one interesting point in the NR article on the meeting cancellation is that a possible buyer of the railroad had been identified.

TheOldMan
07-16-2013, 08:05 PM
The next meeting of the Interstate Railroad Committe is scheduled for tomorrow in Loris, South Carolina, at 5 PM.

Have not decided yet if I'll go (if there is not another last minute cancellation).

ShortlinesUSA
07-19-2013, 04:24 AM
Did you wind up going to the meeting? Again, many thanks for continuing to follow the saga on the CALA. It would be great to see trains moving again there.

TheOldMan
07-19-2013, 07:34 PM
Did you wind up going to the meeting? Again, many thanks for continuing to follow the saga on the CALA. It would be great to see trains moving again there.

Thanks for the post, ShortliensUSA. I decided I had better take care of my own work that I get paid for, rather than go to the committee meeting, and get paid nothing.

I made the right decision, because the meeting was cancelled again. See the link below for a Sun News report that mentions the meeting being cancelled.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/07/17/3589642/more-creditors-take-bites-at-railroad.html#

TheOldMan
07-19-2013, 07:40 PM
The Sun News article also claimed that Horry County had cancelled its lease with Carolina Southern for the 14 miles of track between Conway and Myrtle Beach, but so far I have not been able to determine if that is correct from the minutes of the County Council.

ShortlinesUSA
07-20-2013, 04:58 AM
Sounds like they're going nowhere fast down there...

Joe the Photog
07-21-2013, 02:53 AM
I hope Horry County doesn't decide to pull the rail up.

TheOldMan
07-22-2013, 01:59 AM
I hope Horry County doesn't decide to pull the rail up.

Joe, that makes two of us.

So far, I have not found any confirmation in the County Council records that Horry County's lease with B&A RR dba CS RR has been cancelled.

I spent (how many?) years attending Horry County Council meetings, and CSRR's full name as used in legal documents has stuck in my mind.

I have a copy of B&A's, dba CS's lease with Horry County, & if the CS owned track is sold to another company, the lease on Horry County's 14 mi Conway-Myrtle Beach track cannot be sold with the CS owned track.

So, in the interest of keeping the County owned track hopefully eventually reopening, I don't see that cancelling the lease now would be useful.

If, ultimately, the Conway-MB track cannot be practically used for freight shipping, I believe that the only thing that will keep it there will be its value as a historical relic.

Jack Thompson's sentimentality over the MB depot kept it there, and I often watch the video taken inside the passenger train I rode when the depot reopened, and think of the youngsters riding on that train with myself & the other old men & old women who won't be here in years to come, & fantasize that when they are grown up, & in positions of power, their sentimenal memories of riding the train, will keep the track from being pulled up.

That was nine years ago, & those young restless riders(Arlo Guthrie song) are still many years away from being County Council members.

I just can't envision a historical train depot with no railroad.
Smilies

troy12n
07-22-2013, 04:09 AM
I hope Horry County doesn't decide to pull the rail up.

That money they invested to rebuild the drawbridge in Myrtle Beach is really looking like a wise investment at this point. They had like what, 2 trains cross it?

Rail service to Myrtle Beach, S.C., resumed on June 22 after a 14-year absence, Trains Magazine’s website reported. An inaugural train carrying 200 passengers rolled across the Pine Island Bridge, spanning the Intracoastal Waterway, arriving at the Myrtle Beach depot. The South Carolina Department of Transportation spent $4.2 million to renovate the 54-year-old drawbridge.

nikos1
07-22-2013, 04:50 AM
There were shipments to 84 lumber in Myrtle Beach, there are a few shots on here but yes that amount of money could probably have been better spent.

BR549
07-29-2013, 03:13 PM
Something that I've heard on more than one occasion is that regardless of the fact that CSX sold the railroad outright in the mid 80's, they would be required to step in and take action (when I say "take action", I mean assume operations of the railroad) if no other options were available. Has anyone else ever heard of that? It would seem to me that they are of no responsibility or obligation.

Joe the Photog
07-29-2013, 06:28 PM
Something that I've heard on more than one occasion is that regardless of the fact that CSX sold the railroad outright in the mid 80's, they would be required to step in and take action (when I say "take action", I mean assume operations of the railroad) if no other options were available. Has anyone else ever heard of that? It would seem to me that they are of no responsibility or obligation.
That would surprise me 26+ years after selling the line, but I'm no lawyer. If so, they better find the lightest engines on their roster.

troy12n
07-30-2013, 01:52 AM
Something that I've heard on more than one occasion is that regardless of the fact that CSX sold the railroad outright in the mid 80's, they would be required to step in and take action (when I say "take action", I mean assume operations of the railroad) if no other options were available. Has anyone else ever heard of that? It would seem to me that they are of no responsibility or obligation.

I dont think that is accurate.

TheOldMan
07-30-2013, 08:23 PM
Something that I've heard on more than one occasion is that regardless of the fact that CSX sold the railroad outright in the mid 80's, they would be required to step in and take action (when I say "take action", I mean assume operations of the railroad) if no other options were available. Has anyone else ever heard of that? It would seem to me that they are of no responsibility or obligation.

That's a new one to me, too.

CSX(or were they still Seaboard Systems), sold the Mullins to Chadbourn, to Whiteville and Conway line to Mid Atlantic/Duval Transportation, in the first half of 1987.

When they sold the Conway to Myrtle Beach track to Horry County in 1984, they also obtained an abandonment certificate from the ICC, obviously to protect them from any possible liability they might have still had in the track if they had not abandoned it.

Joe the Photog
07-31-2013, 03:38 PM
CSX(or were they still Seaboard Systems), sold the Mullins to Chadbourn, to Whiteville and Conway line to Mid Atlantic/Duval Transportation, in the first half of 1987.
I've always wondered about the change from Duval Transportation to Mid-Atlantic. Was that simply a name change or a change in ownership? Either way, Duval Transportation was a really bad name for a railroad.

TheOldMan
07-31-2013, 07:57 PM
I've always wondered about the change from Duval Transportation to Mid-Atlantic. Was that simply a name change or a change in ownership? Either way, Duval Transportation was a really bad name for a railroad.

Joe, I thought I had the Sun-News article on the sale to Mid Atlantic/Duval close at hand, but last night, couldn't find it.

I'm sure I can find it easily, though, since the Sun-News is readily available on microfilm. It was titled something like, "Horry Railroad operator buys a short line."

The article quoted a Seabord Systems/CSX spokesman as saying that selling was an alternative to abandonment of the track.

BR549
08-02-2013, 04:16 AM
I've always wondered about the change from Duval Transportation to Mid-Atlantic. Was that simply a name change or a change in ownership?

It was a change in ownership. It was sold to an Owen from Siler City who renamed it "Mid-Atlantic Railroad". Then he sold it to the current owners.

If CSX, Seaboard, or whomever did actually sell the railroad initially with the liability clause, sounds like CSX is free and clear. The long this drags out, the more work that's going to have to be done in addition to the bridge work. My last pass through Tabor City a couple of weeks ago around the state line revealed the weeds and grass getting way out of hand on the right of way ... like four or five feet high out of hand.

TheOldMan
08-03-2013, 04:13 PM
. . . My last pass through Tabor City a couple of weeks ago around the state line revealed the weeds and grass getting way out of hand on the right of way ... like four or five feet high out of hand.

That's not good. In taking care of my business, I cross the railroad at Carolina Forest. At that location there is only a spotty, slight growth of vegitation on the track.

ShortlinesUSA
08-04-2013, 02:34 PM
Maybe that'll help stabilize the roadbed a bit... HA! Nice to hear from you, BR549. Thanks for stopping by to visit the forum.

troy12n
08-04-2013, 11:54 PM
It was a change in ownership. It was sold to an Owen from Siler City who renamed it "Mid-Atlantic Railroad". Then he sold it to the current owners.

If CSX, Seaboard, or whomever did actually sell the railroad initially with the liability clause, sounds like CSX is free and clear. The long this drags out, the more work that's going to have to be done in addition to the bridge work. My last pass through Tabor City a couple of weeks ago around the state line revealed the weeds and grass getting way out of hand on the right of way ... like four or five feet high out of hand.

It's gonna have to drag out about 10-15 years before "vegetation" becomes an issue.

As it is now, the railroad is complete garbage, and a little kudzu might actually hold what little ballast and ties there are in place

TheOldMan
08-06-2013, 09:13 PM
So far, I have not found anything in the Horry County Council records regarding the cancellation or possible cancellation of B&A dba CS RR's lease on the 14 miles of railroad from Conway to Myrtle Beach.

I am now checking out the County Council records for this week and next week.

The agenda for the next full Council meeting of August 18, 2013, is not yet available.

This week, The Infrasctucture and Regulation Committe is scheduled to meet on Thursday, August 8, at 9:00 AM.

First item on the agenda is "Railroad Uupdate/Doug Wendell, Chairman"

http://horrycounty.granicus.com/DocumentViewer.php?file=horrycounty_5068fd98fb848d 76d25ec845fa78aa69.pdf&view=1

Now that I have gotten "plugged in" to the current County Council discussions of the railroad, I will monitor the minutes of the meeting after they are posted.

Joe the Photog
08-07-2013, 01:28 PM
Now that I have gotten "plugged in" to the current County Council discussions of the railroad, I will monitor the minutes of the meeting after they are posted.
Your updates are much appreciated.

TheOldMan
08-07-2013, 02:37 PM
Your updates are much appreciated.

Thanks for the post, Joe. If I didn't need to work to earn a paycheck, I'd go to the committee meeting tomorrow.

When I find the time, I will go backwards in the County Council to see if the newspaper report claiming that the railroad lease has been cancelled is correct.

Being in default on lease payments is grounds for cancelling the lease, but does not automatically terminate the lease.

Shortly after signing the lease, B&A, dba CS was did not make a payment for a locomotive it bought from the County with the lease, on the date stated in the lease agreement.

The county attorney told the Council that this was a default that the county could terminate the lease over, but the matter was taken care of with an amendment to the lease.

Being in a situation where the lease could be terminated by the county is not the same as the County Council voting to terminate the lease, and so far, I have not found anything in the County Council records stating that the County Council had voted to do so.

Joe the Photog
08-07-2013, 02:54 PM
I know there are rumors and speculation, but someone posted to a Facebook status I made in jest about what I would do with the 425 million dollar lottery by saying he has heard three different entities are looking into buying the railroad. Naturally, no names were named.

TheOldMan
08-09-2013, 07:43 PM
Front page story in today's Myrtle Beach Sun-News:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/08/08/3634586/counties-railroad-owners-working.html

TheOldMan
08-09-2013, 08:29 PM
I was surprised to find that the video of yesterday's meeting is already posted to the Net.

Don't have time to view it now, but here's the link to the County Council page:

http://www.horrycounty.org/council/index.asp

Scroll down to the Infrastructure and Regulation Committe meeting of August 8, yesterday, and the link to the video is on the far right column.

The agenda for next week's Tuesday meeting of Horry County Council is still not available on the County webpage, but in the Sun News article, it is stated that discussion of the railroad will take place at that meeting.

BR549
08-11-2013, 03:11 AM
Front page story in today's Myrtle Beach Sun-News:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/08/08/3634586/counties-railroad-owners-working.html

This is about to get very interesting!

troy12n
08-11-2013, 03:28 AM
This is about to get very interesting!

The only thing that might be interesting is making a drive up there for some interesting abandonment / ripping track up / scrapping equipment in place pictures in the near future

TheOldMan
08-15-2013, 08:39 PM
I watched Tuesday night's County Council meeting, and was surprised that the railroad, which I could not find on the agenda, was to be discussed, and the discussion had been changed from executive session to public.

Mr. Ken Pippin, President of Carolina Southern was at the meeting and spoke to the council.

Here is a link to one press report:

http://www.myhorrynews.com/business/article_28c29ef0-048d-11e3-a2b5-0019bb30f31a.html

TheOldMan
08-16-2013, 05:04 PM
Here's another Sun News story from yesterday:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/08/14/3644694/horry-moves-forward-on-myrtle.html

And, the latest, in today's Sun-News

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/08/15/3648092/officials-say-theyll-work-with.html

TheOldMan
08-21-2013, 06:46 PM
Here's a link to the internet Trains magazine, of which I'm not a member, so I can't check it out and see if their story, saying that CSRR could be sold by September has anything new in it, or is just a repeat of the other stories posted above.

http://trn.trains.com/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2013/08/Carolina%20Southern%20Railroad%20could%20be%20sold %20by%20September.aspx

troy12n
08-21-2013, 06:57 PM
Here's a link to the internet Trains magazine, of which I'm not a member, so I can't check it out and see if their story, saying that CSRR could be sold by September has anything new in it, or is just a repeat of the other stories posted above.

http://trn.trains.com/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2013/08/Carolina%20Southern%20Railroad%20could%20be%20sold %20by%20September.aspx

Who would want it? Seems there is zero money to be made, or these shyster owners could have convinced someone to loan them money to fix the railroad instead of just sucking every last penny out of it until it literally fell apart. I hope someone goes after them for every penny they can. But they probably wont be able to because of corporate laws protecting owners in these cases.

Joe the Photog
08-22-2013, 06:27 PM
I think there is still some viable options there for new business as well as recapturing some of the old business. As far as who would want it, I have no idea and everything here would be speculation. I think we could all shoot down speculation from GWI or any other shortline holding company. Therefore, I think there is some local money cropping up somewhere.

troy12n
08-22-2013, 06:30 PM
^ Maybe Flav-O-Flav is a railfan?

Joe the Photog
08-22-2013, 06:36 PM
^ Maybe Flav-O-Flav is a railfan?
Damg, I should have asked.

TheOldMan
08-24-2013, 05:37 PM
Here's a link to another, different press report, on the Conway City Council's recent discussion of the railroad:

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/local/conway/article_686b7870-0c0c-11e3-90a1-001a4bcf6878.html

TheOldMan
08-24-2013, 05:41 PM
And, a link to an article in the Whiteville, NC News Reporter, by Alan Turner, who I met at a meeting of the Interstate Railroad Committe, in Loris:

http://www.whiteville.com/news/horry-county-to-consider-action-on-railroad-tuesday/article_18998c82-0429-11e3-b1d3-001a4bcf887a.html

This link is only to the first part of the article, and getting the whole article apparently requires a NR subscription. In the past I have tried to locate a rack for the News Reporter in my area, with no success.

troy12n
08-24-2013, 09:55 PM
Here's a link to another, different press report, on the Conway City Council's recent discussion of the railroad:

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/local/conway/article_686b7870-0c0c-11e3-90a1-001a4bcf6878.html

Conway City Council agreed Monday night to chip in $500 toward hiring a lawyer to force a sale of the Carolina Southern Railroad.

How generous of them...

TheOldMan
08-28-2013, 03:41 PM
Here is a link to another new report.

http://www.carolinalive.com/news/story.aspx?id=939306

TheOldMan
08-30-2013, 05:23 PM
Here are links to two more recent Sun-News Stories, the first from Saturday of last week:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/08/24/3663513/railroad-appeal-could-take-up.html

And, the most recent from Wednesday of this week:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/08/28/3674593/railroad-owner-says-solution-likely.html

troy12n
08-30-2013, 07:33 PM
Can we not post anymore on this until they start pullng up the rails? There has been zero fact, and all speculation and silly governmental saber rattling. A heads up on the abandonment notice would be nice.

ShortlinesUSA
08-31-2013, 03:29 AM
It's pretty simple, Troy. Don't read the posts, because all you do is troll around on this and other topics trying to get a rise out of people. When is the last time you actually posted something useful in this forum, let alone this thread?

Nevermind we actually have someone willing to follow the goings on with the Carolina Southern, and who is kind enough to take the time to post what is going on for those of us who are interested. When is the last time you actually tried attending a public meeting to be informed on a topic, let alone thoughtfully read a news story without forming your own conclusion based on the headline?

When I actually see you post something useful, maybe I'll change my opinion on your usefulness here. How about an update on the Seminole Gulf? Or are they "shysters," too? You hate CSX by your tag photo. Might be time to reconsider why you're even into this hobby, when it all seems to make you miserable?

Do us a favor-- either contribute something useful or don't bother us with your nonsense.

Joe the Photog
08-31-2013, 04:09 AM
I appreciate TOM's posts as well as his desire to go to some actual meetings. I might would do the same if it were in my neck of the woods.

ShortlinesUSA
08-31-2013, 04:22 AM
Absolutely, Joe. Very few in this hobby would actually take the effort to do all TOM has done in following this topic. Thank you, Sir!

TheOldMan
08-31-2013, 03:16 PM
Thanks for the posts, everybody.

Troy, if I waited till the rails were being pulled up, to post any more on the Mullins-Whiteville-Myrtle Beach railrload, I'd be long gone, as a rider on the train at the reopening of the Myrtle Beach Depot said.

What I want to share with you other members, is some info I've uncovered in the minutes on one of the Horry County Council meetings, about the Federal bridge inspectors, and their next visit to Horry, Marion & Columbus Counties, which isn't too far into the future, and might pose an additional challenge to whoever may own the railroad in the years to come.

troy12n
09-01-2013, 08:40 AM
It's pretty simple, Troy. Don't read the posts, because all you do is troll around on this and other topics trying to get a rise out of people. When is the last time you actually posted something useful in this forum, let alone this thread?

I post useful stuff all the time, maybe not in the shortline forum, but in others.

If you really read all the linked articles, there is really no useful info other than a bunch of country bumpkins bickering about a useless shortline and a carpetbagger swindler shortline owner laughing at their every move

Nevermind we actually have someone willing to follow the goings on with the Carolina Southern, and who is kind enough to take the time to post what is going on for those of us who are interested. When is the last time you actually tried attending a public meeting to be informed on a topic, let alone thoughtfully read a news story without forming your own conclusion based on the headline?

I guess we can commend his diligence, even if the linked info is less than useful to date.

When I actually see you post something useful, maybe I'll change my opinion on your usefulness here. How about an update on the Seminole Gulf? Or are they "shysters," too?

Again, take a peek outside of the shortline forum and you might see I post something insightful every now and then.

And yes, for the most part the SGLR owners are shysters too. And I have posted about them on their yahoo group

You hate CSX by your tag photo. Might be time to reconsider why you're even into this hobby, when it all seems to make you miserable?

I dont really hate CSX, I got the funny avatar from csx-sucks.com, a funny website you should all check out

Do us a favor-- either contribute something useful or don't bother us with your nonsense.

I will consider your request, and then likely disregard it. I also deeply appreciate your concern for my choice of this as a hobby.

David Paschal
09-01-2013, 12:58 PM
I have followed the saga of the Carolina Southern for a couple of years and I want to say that, as an old retired guy who would be hard-pressed to come up with fuel money to attend meetings, I appreciate the efforts of those that are willing to keep me informed of the progress, or lack of, of efforts to get this road running. Thank you.

jnohallman
09-02-2013, 12:41 AM
If you really read all the linked articles, there is really no useful info other than a bunch of country bumpkins bickering about a useless shortline and a carpetbagger swindler shortline owner laughing at their every move




Except that it apparently wasn't useless to the businesses located along the line who now have to pay more to have materials transported by truck. But that's not really relevant when you've already made up your mind, is it? And is your belief that the people involved are bumpkins based solely on geography, or do you have some other evidence? It's very nice of you to try to take the place in the RP forums of good old Mike B.

Jon

TheOldMan
09-03-2013, 05:24 PM
Excerpts from the Horry County Council webpage, Committee of the Whole Meeting of October 11, 2011,where Mr. Jason Pippin, Vice President & General Manager of Carolina Southern, spoke to the committee.

I am transcribing this with more frequent paragraph divisions, otherwise, exactly as it was written, and with the same typo errors, possibly with some typo errors of my own, which I didn't catch, and two italicized phrases, italics mine, which I feel are the items of most importance.

The main point is that while Carolina Southern has been mostly shut down for the two years since the last Federal bridge inspections of August 2011, more inspections are due two years from now, in 2015, and bridge repair costs could be even more expensive than the current estimates.

Here is a link to the County Council webpage, for those who want to read the full text of the meeting. There is also a button for video of the meeting, that I did not click on.

http://horrycounty.granicus.com/DocumentViewer.php?file=horrycounty_b665cf409f60e2 26f77b36c507996785.pdf&view=1

From the minutes of the meeting, pp. 30-31, under the heading, Railroad Update, starting with Paragraph 3:

". . . the Federal Railroad Administration that governed them at a federal level had instituted some new regulations. Up until now there were no specific regulations relating to bridges for the railroad industry and they needed to catch up on that and they had done so. Most of them were being phased in and some were in effect now and some would not be in effect until 2015.

They had 187 bridges on the railroad when they considered the county railroad and the Carolina Southern Railroad over 100 miles of those two bridges. The overall condition of the bridges was good. The federal government came in and inspected 53 bridges and found issues with 7. Of those 7 bridges one was from the county railroad and they fixed that bridge immediately.

Mr. Rice asked why did they only inspect 53 out of 187. Mr. Pippin said they had four days to inspect and they kind of did a rolling inspection of all of them and did an actual inspection of 53. He guessed while they were riding over them they said this one is okay and that one looked like it had a problem.

The goal with the new guidlines was by 2015 all bridges had to be inspected by a certified bridge engineer and rated. What rated meant was that they had to be underwater tested and determined how much weight they could take for the next 20 years. It had to be done by 2015 so they were working on it. It was a long process.

The FRA came in and found those bridges critical and voluntarily stopped operations until they could fix the bridge and they did so because safety was important to them. They shut down the railroad on May 24th and worked on the bridges and completed just about all the repairs and reopened the railroad on August 3rd.

The FRA came back on August 24th and did another inspection. They commended them for the work they had done but said it was not enough. They shut down again and at that point they were not operating as a result of funding to fix the remaining bridges with a railroad that did not have any operations so it had made it difficult.

The overall condition of the county railroad on the other hand was fair. The county railroad had one bridge that was critical in Red Hill and they went over there and fixed the entire bridge immediately. Everything that was done the FRA came out and inspected it and was happy with so that bridge was complete.

They would be inspecting the rest of the bridges between then and 2015 per the FRA regulations. He was sure there would be more to do when they did that. With the condition of the county railroad as fair they had been replacing ties, putting in valves and fixing the bridges . . ."

ShortlinesUSA
09-03-2013, 11:47 PM
Wow, indeed some potential "great unknown" for anyone thinking about operating this line.

Joe the Photog
09-05-2013, 11:59 PM
There is a filing on record now with the STB in regards to the CALA.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/Filings/all.nsf/d6ef3e0bc7fe3c6085256fe1004f61cb/964d273bf8a8c5c685257bd4006371cc/$FILE/234719.pdf

TheOldMan
09-06-2013, 06:17 PM
Joe, thanks for the link, which I clicked on and found a lot of very interesting things.

I was correct in guessing that Baltimore & Annapolis Railroad dba Carolina Southern Railroad is still the name used in legal documents.

I have seen the name CALA before, but don't think I've ever read any explanation of what those letters stand for.

Of interest was B&A dba CS having the option of filing for abandonment, although I could not tell from the filing if that option was still open to Carolina Southern.

And, if abandonment is still an option, would that be of any advantage to Carolina Southern?

ShortlinesUSA
09-07-2013, 06:26 PM
If other operators are truly interested in running the line, abandonment wouldn't happen, even if the Carolina Southern filed. All one of the interested parties would have to do is present an Offer of Financial Assistance (OFA) and the STB would not permit the abandonment, and the Carolina Southern would either be forced to sell the line to the party submitting the OFA or continue to operate the line. This is exactly why the system is designed as it is-- to prohibit operators who have no intent of running a rail line from arbitrarily abandoning a line another party is willing to purchase and operate.

Mr. Pippin knows this will happen, so there is a very slim chance you'll see an abandonment filing from them. What the parties involved in the filing are doing is petitioning the STB to essentially move it to the next level, almost as an abandonment has been filed, even though there hasn't.

TheOldMan
09-07-2013, 06:31 PM
Thanks for the reply, ShortlinesUSA.

I noticed that in more recent interviews, Mr. Pippin is quoted that he is considering partnering with another railroad company, as an alternative to selling.

TheOldMan
09-21-2013, 04:41 PM
Latest Newspaper Reports.

The Sun-News, Myrtle Beach, SC, September 12:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/09/12/3705408/unforced-sale-best-solution-for.html

The News Reporter, Whiteville, NC, September 18:

http://www.whiteville.com/news/potential-buyer-taking-look-at-carolina-southern/article_31ae0366-1f21-11e3-82c6-0019bb2963f4.html

Joe the Photog
09-27-2013, 04:34 PM
The latest article I could find, though nothing has changed, really --

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/09/25/3732758/carolina-southern-fires-back-at.html

TheOldMan
09-27-2013, 04:41 PM
The latest article I could find, though nothing has changed, really --

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/09/25/3732758/carolina-southern-fires-back-at.html

Joe, I saw that article in the local news section of the Sun-News yesterday.

Thanks for saving me the work of copying and posting the link.

I would assume that CSRRs response would be online, as the original complaint was, and would have more details.

I detoured a business trip to Shallotte, NC last week, thru Tabor city, NC, and got 2 local newspapers with stories on the railroad which have more details, and will give those details asap.

TheOldMan
10-05-2013, 04:41 PM
Here's a link to the internet Trains magazine, of which I'm not a member, so I can't check it out and see if their story, saying that CSRR could be sold by September has anything new in it, or is just a repeat of the other stories posted above.

http://trn.trains.com/Railroad%20News/News%20Wire/2013/08/Carolina%20Southern%20Railroad%20could%20be%20sold %20by%20September.aspx

September has come and gone, we're well into October, and I don't think that any of us are surprised that Carolina Southern hasn't been sold yet.

troy12n
10-06-2013, 10:16 PM
September has come and gone, we're well into October, and I don't think that any of us are surprised that Carolina Southern hasn't been sold yet.

I would say that is more because the governments involved are more clueless than the railroad is.

Joe the Photog
10-07-2013, 01:50 AM
Since this is now at the STB level, is the STB affected by the government shutdown?

TheOldMan
10-30-2013, 07:20 PM
I know we had a post that CSRR had really gotten grown up in weeds and underbrush in Columbus County.

I cross the Horry County owned track in going to and from my work in Carolina Forest, and while the track at that crossing has never gotten too much grown up in underbrish, recently, it looked like what underbrush there was had been cleared out.

A friend of mine at GSW confirmed that the county owned track had received brush cutting to the crushed stone plant at Pine Island.

Yesterday, I finally took some photos at the Carolina Forrest crossing.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2820/10577981225_9461d00f94.jpg

Looking toward the connection of Carolina Forrest Blvd, to International Drive, and the bypass.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7308/10577981245_3368a99f91.jpg

Looking toward Conway. Notice the cut, browned underbrush beside the track.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/10577981295_a99f475463.jpg

Looking down Carolina Forrest Blvd, toward the intersection with US 501.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5544/10577981435_f1eb7724b5.jpg

Looking down the track toward Myrtle Beach.

TheOldMan
11-06-2013, 03:46 PM
A bit of stale but still relevant news from the Tabor-Loris Tribune of September 18, 2013, page 1

Railroad work goes virtual

By Joyce Graham

With frustration evident over a lack of public progress in efforts to restore rail service to Columbus, Horry and Marion counties, members of the Interstate Railroad Committee of North and South Carolina(IRRC) are going virtual with their meetings.

Until therer is a pressing need to gather, committee members agreed that they would keep informed via 1-mail for the time being.

IRRC co-chair Dennis Worley said the group has a policy and pattern of openness, and that reporters would receive all of the e-mail correspondence sent to committee members.

Members gathering in Loris Thursday agreed to put off physical meetings several called frustratingly unproductive, especially in the frequent absence of Carolina Southern Railroad(CSR) owner Ken Pippin.

Pippin was absent again Thursday, reportedly in Baltimore for his mother's birthday, and his lawyer arrived well after the meeting got underway. Committee members were behind closed doors when Myrtle Beach attorney Tommy Brittain showed up.

Efforts to sell the railroad are ongoing, Brittain told the committe when open session resumed. At least two possible buyers are showing sincere interest, he said.

Brittain thanked IRRC co-chair Doug Wendell and Horry County Commissioners Chairman Mark Lazarus for taking part in one recent meeting with a potential buyer.

Brittain said he has sought, and received a 10-day extension in responding to charges listed in a complaint filed last month with the U.S. Surface Transportation Board (STB).

Filed in chicago attorney Thomas McFarland, and the complaint accuses CSR of abandoning 76 miles of track in Columbus, Horry and Marion counties, and of failing to act in the last year to lift an embargo it filed on Aug. 27, 2012 "suspending service over its rail lines."

That embargo came a year after the railroad stopped running when seven of its bridges were found to be deficient by federal inspectors.

CSF "has performed virtually no ongoing track maintenance during the two-year period that its rail lines have been out of service," the complaint said.

Britain said the process through the STB would be lengthy, and selling the railroad was the best available option for Pippin and for those formerly served by CSR.
City governments in Loris and Myrtle Beach have joined the STB complaint since it was filed on Aug. 27. Three counties, five municipalities and one business were listed on the original complainant. They include Horry County, Columbus County, Marion County, Tabor City, Fair Bluff, Chardbourn, Whiteville, Conway, and Metglass, Inc. of Conway, a distributor of transformer electric steel and other items.

- Includes reportinig by Duece Niven

TheOldMan
11-07-2013, 03:12 PM
From The News Times, a free newspaper, September 18, 2013, page 01.

Potential buyer taking look at Carolina Southern

Additional parties join federal action

By Allen Turner
Staff Writer

One unnamed buyer is looking to purchase the idled Carolina Southern Railroad (CSR) and another potential buyer has expressed interest, it was revealed Thursday at a meeting in Loris, S.C. of the Interstate Railroad Committee (IRC).

In addition, two more parties have signed onto a complaint filed last month with the federal Surface Transportation Board (STB) seeking a resolution to get rail service restored to Columbus, Horry and Marion counties.

"We're working hard to try and sell the railroad," said Myrtle Beach attorney Thomas Brittain, who represents CSR owner Ken Pippin. Pippin could not attend the meeting due to family obligations out of state. Brittain said that Horry County Council Chairman Mark Lazarus and IRC Co-Chair Doug Wendel had met with the unnamed potential buyer.

In addition, Brittain said discussions also are underway with a "quasi-public entity" about a purchase of the railroad. "I hope that will materialize. We've been talking back and forth and are waiting to hear from them," Brittain said. Although no one would comment for the record, the "quasi-public entity" description sounds very much like South Carolina Public Railways, a division of the S.C. Dept. of Commerce which already operates three common carrier railroads.

"We're working really hard to sell it," Brittain said. He said that selling the railroad to a motivated buyer is the best possible outcome, as opposed to having the STB order a forced sale. Brittain said that it was only about a week before last month's IRC meeting that Pippin came to the realization that a sale of the railroad will be required to resolve the impasse and get rail service restored in the three counties.

"I think that our purposes are similar, and that what will be good for you also will be good for my client," Brittain told the committee. "I really feel the big moment in this was when (Pippin finally) decided to try and sell the railroad," Brittain said.

Carolina southern Railroad has been idle for a little over two years due to infrastructure problems, mainly involving bridges over the nearly 100-mile freight rail line which runs through Columbus, Horry and Marion counties.

The IRC was formed just over a year ago to explore ways of restoring rail service and consists of representitives of county and municipal governments in those three counties.

At their meeting last month, the committee agreed to pursue action with the STB, seeking to force the railroad to resume operations or to force the sale of the railroad to someone with the financial ability to get the rail line up and running again.

A complaint was filed on Aug. 27 with the STB with the counties of Columbus, Horry and Marion, the municipalities of Whiteville, Chadbourn, Tabor City, Fair Bluff and conway, and Conway-based Metglass, Inc., a railroad customer, listed as plaintiffs.

Since then, the cities of Loris and Myrtle Beach, S.C., railroad customer New South Companies, Inc. of Myrtle Beach, and Amoco chemical Co. have filed "petitions for leave to intervene" in the STB complaint against the railroad.

Amoco Chemical alleges that 17 of its hopper cars are trapped in the CSR service area, that the railroad charged Amoco a $50 "interchange fee" per car and, for a time, charged them storage payments of $2.50 per day per car, despite the fact that no way exists to get the cars out of the area due to bridge problems.

The committee agreed Thursday that economic development directors Gary Lanier of Columbus County, Brad Lofton of Myrtle Beach and Marion county Administrator Tim Harper would meet to work out an equitable formula for splitting legal costs among all the entities involved in the STB action.

Since the formation in August of last year, the IRC has scheduled monthly meetings; however, several scheduled meetings were canceled because there was no new business to discuss.

It was decided at Thursday's session that another meeting would not be scheduled.

Committee members and the news media will be notified via email when developments warrant another meeting.

David Paschal
11-08-2013, 12:33 PM
It's hard for me to imagine that some one or some entity would have the financial wherewithal to repair all those bridges and that pitiful roadbed. It will involve millions of dollars to properly repair! They'll never recoup their investment unless a whole lot of companies that require rail service move there. I just don't see that happening.

TheOldMan
11-14-2013, 05:36 PM
Thanks for the post, David. You make some very valid points. I plan to post the remarks to the Interstate Railroad Committee by the Bridge Engineer hired by Carolina Southern, to show more of what challenges the bridge repairs pose to the railroad.

Meanwhile, here is a link to the latest news on CSRR.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/11/13/3835513/carolina-southern-may-try-to-sell.html

Cameraman
11-16-2013, 01:39 PM
I was catching up on some of the more recent post on CS, when I ran across Troy's post. I want to stop and take a moment to thank "the Old Man" who I don't know, but I feel he has been doing an excellent job reporting on the situation. I now live a long way from the area, but have a lot of history on the CS. And this is one operation I have a lot of interest in.

Since about the age of 1-year old, I grew up going to MB every summer with the family. As a young adult, I would often borrow my parent's car to go explore the MB rail line while they spent time on the beach. I took my first ride on the line when it was the Horry County, cab riding on the 44-tonner on the freight train. And on every successive trip I would take in more through the Duval Transp. years and into Mid-Atlantic and now CS.

Troy, I have spent a large part of my life covering government via my job and what is being reported in the actual pace of government and how they do business. I can't say I can remember anyone doing as good of a job keeping a list posted as "The Old Man." Not unless that person drew a paycheck as a reporter!

Troy simply don't read this post/thread. But I can tell you I will read it.

I hope on a future trip to MB, its been about a decade now, that I will have a rail line to check out. My only fear is on-line shipping managers will be very reluctant to go out on a limb for any railroad company that might operate the line based on what has happened in the past.

TheOldMan
11-20-2013, 06:51 PM
Front page news in the Myrtle Beach Sun-News today-Santee Cooper's cleanup of their now closed electrical plant in Conway, SC, will take ten years.

Would that project be worth buying and reparing the railroad for any potential investor?

And, considering the waste being cleaned up is toxic, how well would the railroad have to be repaired to safely transport such cargo?

ShortlinesUSA
11-21-2013, 03:57 AM
That depends on how much traffic there is. Ten years' worth is nothing to sneeze at for a shortline, provided it is a steady number of cars per day.

The basic number for shortline economics is 1000 cars per year, per mile (with a "car" being a load) for break even. Add up all the CALA could possibly ship in addition to this traffic, and they'd need around 7000 cars a year.

Construction and demolition (C&D) material and "dirty dirt" are two commodities handled by a number of railroads around the country, though C&D is most prevalent in the Northeast. I don't believe the "dirty dirt" is even considered hazmat for transport purposes. It is not at all volatile, and does not pose much of a hazard if spilled in a derailment, because it is obviously more easily contained than a liquid.

So, this traffic, if shipped by rail, could certainly help the economics of the CALA in the near term. Long term, without the coal shipments to the power plant, that's a sizeable chunk of traffic they no longer have and makes the economics of the line that much worse.

troy12n
11-21-2013, 04:53 AM
I dont know anything about this plant in question, but around here, there have been lots of plants that ended up being superfund sites served by rail that when the plant closed, the entire line was pulled up. The toxic dirt loads wasnt worth maintaining the line for a couple loads a week, which is what it will end up being.

TheOldMan
11-25-2013, 03:08 PM
Thanks for the posts, Cameraman, ShortlinesUSA, & troy12n.

Just read a Myrtle Beach Herald report with details of the Santee Cooper cleanup, and it mentions trucking the contaminated ashes from the plant. A previous article had mentioned the now lack of railroad service.

The story is in the Myrtle Beach Herald of November 22, 2013, Page 10A, and covers three columns.

Santee Cooper agrees to haul coal ashy away from Conway

By Robert Anderson
For the Herald

The fourth paragraph from the top quotes Mollie Gore, manager of corporate communications for Santee cooper:

". . . We think this is a positive solution and look forward to getting underway with removing the coal ash."

Paragraphs five and six continue:

Gore is unsure when the project will get underway, but said the coal ash will be trucked out.

"We haven't worked out the details," she said. "We haven't made any arrangements for trucking."

TheOldMan
12-06-2013, 06:19 PM
I find myself thinking more and more, just what the net salvage value of the tracks from Mullins to Whiteville & Conway would be.

Joe the Photog
12-08-2013, 03:53 AM
I find myself thinking more and more, just what the net salvage value of the tracks from Mullins to Whiteville & Conway would be.
My cynical side believes this is where we are headed with the CALA. Of course, my optimistic side thought the Gamecocks had Missouri right where they wanted them when it was 17 to 0 Tigers in that game.!

TheOldMan
12-09-2013, 09:51 PM
My cynical side believes this is where we are headed with the CALA. Of course, my optimistic side thought the Gamecocks had Missouri right where they wanted them when it was 17 to 0 Tigers in that game.!

Joe, I pretty much see it the way that you do.

I have some salvage values from The Myrtle Beach Short Line Feasibility Study," by Hohorst Marine, Inc. and Carlisle Associates, inc, dated January 3, 1984.

These values could obviousl have changed in the 30 years since that study was done, of course.

Page 15:

Net Liquidated Value of the Myrtle Beach Branch

$54,544.80

Property Value

$538,000.00

Total Net Liquidated Salvage Value Track and Property $592, 545.00

Page 21:

Salvage Value of the Chadbourn to Conway Branch

Net Liquidated Salvage Value of track-$1,157,501.80

Real Estate Value is put at $354,000

Total value $1,511,000

ShortlinesUSA
12-10-2013, 02:39 AM
Oddly enough, I figured about $2 million in today's dollars before looking at this older estimate. It's possibly that number has been floated in the myriad news stories at some point.

Given the status of the line and how many repairs are needed, I think the only way this line can be truly viable for a buyer who wishes to run it would be to be given the line for virtually no cost (the good ol' $1 sale) to allow them to invest what they would spend in the purchase price on the rebuild of the railroad.

With the railroad currently owned by a private entity seeking to recoup at least some of their investment, I think some sort of arrangement such as this (essentially the Pippins deeding the railroad over to someone else) is about as far-fetched as the Redskins making the playoffs this season.

Every day that goes by makes it harder and harder to return this line to service, and I believe we are getting close to the point (if not there already) where it becomes economically infeasible. The closure of the Vulcan rock yard and the Santee Cooper power plant in Conway have left this line with little existing traffic which could attract a buyer.

This is more and more looking like a situation where either the governments involved buy it and run it at a loss in the name of economic development, or the trail folks get a nice long network of mosquito-ridden trails through the swamps of the Carolina low lands.

TheOldMan
12-10-2013, 06:28 PM
ShortlinesUSA, you put very well, what I have been thinking all along.

Also, note that the 1984 study did not include salvage value of the Mullins to Whiteville track.

TheOldMan
12-12-2013, 06:00 PM
Today the Sun-News had a front page photo of the Santee Cooper plant cleanup, and here's a link to 15 photos on the Sun-News website.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2013/12/11/3898327/steam-plant-in-conway.html#

In one of the photos the railroad is visible, but not the locomotive(s?).

troy12n
12-13-2013, 02:43 PM
Is there any reason they couldnt just leave the plant running until they ran out of fuel? (coal)

ShortlinesUSA
12-13-2013, 03:35 PM
The plant closings just seem to be made at some set deadline, regardless of the state of the stockpile, etc. I watched this occur at a similar sized plant in Alexandria, VA last year. The last moves I documented at the plant (so far, assuming there is possible C&D debris to be hauled out at some point in the future) were coal LOADS coming out of the plant. They took the effort to use front-end loaders to load up everything they had on the ground into Top Gons and send a couple of trains' worth up to another plant in Pennsylvania.

A shut down date of "when the coal is all burned up" would seem to be a lot easier and make more sense, that's for sure.

TheOldMan
12-19-2013, 07:24 PM
Link the the latest news on B&A, dba CS, or CALA.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/local/loris/article_b255796a-668c-11e3-9ef5-001a4bcf6878.html

TheOldMan
01-14-2014, 08:59 PM
Since Joe filed a link to the first filing with the Federal Surface Transportation Board, with miscellaneous Plaintiffs vs. defendant Baltimore & Annapolis Railroad, dba Carolina Southern, there have been quite a few filings by other plaintiffs.

Starting Friday of Last week, I went back to the first filing, and got up to date, although so far, I have not done a count on the number of filings

Here is the most recent, filed by B&A dba CS, filed January 7 of this year, 2014.

It is a Motion for a Protective Order, relating to confidential documents of the railroad company. Here's the link.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7f93537688b8e5852573210004b318/bedce8539c9c96ba85257c59005b64d5?OpenDocument

What I've found most of interest is filings by the the chemical company that needs to get the train that B&A was storing for them, back.

These filings mention plans to move the cars to a location where they can be put on trucks and moved on the highway to where they can be re-railed and returned to the owners.

TheOldMan
01-14-2014, 09:01 PM
I drove through Conway last week and was surprised to see that only one of the tank three tank cars remain.

Anyone hear when & how the other 2 tank cars are now?

TheOldMan
01-22-2014, 10:06 PM
Section C, Local News section of the Myrtle Beach Sun-News today had a report on B&A's filing to protect their private documents, apparently the same one of January 7, since scrolling through the FSTB filings, I can't find any more since Jan 7.

The report had interviews with one or more members of the Interstate Railroad Committee.

TheOldMan
01-31-2014, 04:29 PM
Latest filing, a letter stating that B&A had provided the location of 17 covered hopper cars
being stored by B&A for BP-Amoco Chemical Company: the hose track at the depot in Chadbourn, NC.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7f93537688b8e5852573210004b318/0ed76239bdbb306f85257c680057f476?OpenDocument

ShortlinesUSA
01-31-2014, 06:28 PM
Riveting! Just kidding, of course. Isn't it amazing the bureaucracy which surrounds this situation? An STB filing and response for what would normally be a simple phone call.

Thank you for continuing to follow this for us.

TheOldMan
02-06-2014, 05:52 PM
Thanks for the post, ShortlinesUSA

Here is a link to the latest news from yesterday's Myrtle Beach Sun-News,front page, top of left column.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/02/04/4002163/carolina-southern-files-notice.html

The next meeting of the Interstate Railroad Committee in Loris, SC,is scheduled for Thursday, Feb. 14, next week.

Have not checked to confirm if the meeting is still scheduled, or decided whether I'll go if it does take place next week.

Could the 60 day notice by B&A possibly delay the FSTB proceeings further?

troy12n
02-06-2014, 10:00 PM
60 day notice on a track they havent operated in 2+ years, lol... got to love this shyster pippen

TheOldMan
02-10-2014, 09:53 PM
Today, Monday, February 10, 2014.

Opening Statement of Plaintiffs vs. B&A to Federal Surface Transportation Board.

55 pages, very detailed with charts, graphs, a map, and all kind of data, that will take me, and anyone else, a long time to read.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7f93537688b8e5852573210004b318/5391fcc3f32c92ac85257c7b005eb054?OpenDocument

Joe the Photog
02-11-2014, 03:19 PM
60 day notice on a track they havent operated in 2+ years, lol... got to love this shyster pippen
Not being a lawyer and very rarely ever follwing STB filings, I imagine this is a formality he has to go through. The real issue might be government agency bureaucracy and not this, for lack of a better term, railroader.

TheOldMan
02-13-2014, 07:27 PM
Fairly long MB Sun News aritcle on the meeting in Loris today, which, appaently barring any last minute cancellation due to the weather, is still on for 4 PM in Loris today.

Article included interview with B&A's lawyer, and other things of interest.

Fixing things around my work schedule to get to the meeting is just not practical for me, so I'll skip it.

David Paschal
02-14-2014, 08:58 PM
That's OK, maybe Joe can fill in for you.

TheOldMan
03-05-2014, 07:30 PM
Tomorrow, it will be three weeks since the Interstate Railroad committee was scheduled to meet in Loris, SC.

So far, I haven't found any newspaper or Net coverage on the meeting, or any announcement that it had been cancelled due to the weather.

I have written to the person who is in charge of the Committe's e-mail news releases, who in the past, had written back and confirmed that the meeting was still scheduled for Thursday, February 13, but so far no reply to my inquiry of a few days ago, as to whether it had been cancelled due to the ice storm, and if so, when it was rescheduled for.

Also, no new filings with the FSTB since the last one.

Since B&A is now to reply to the Plaintiffs, and the deadline is March 31, for their reply and the Commmitte's rebuttal, I would suppose that B&A would take their filing up tot he limit.

Anyone else hear any news about B&A dba Carolina Southern, CALA?

TheOldMan
03-07-2014, 09:57 PM
Friday,March 7, edition of Myrtle Beach Herald, has a front page story titled, "State Lining Up To Buy Carolina Southern?"

Can't find it on the net, so no link to post here.

Nothing really definite in the article, which says that the Interstate Railroad Committe wants its own appraisal of the railroad, in addition to the one done earlier by the state, which has not released the appraised value.

Article quotes Mr. Pippin as saying he would be willing to sell to the state, and Doug Wendell as saying that the STB process could drag on until 2016, but local and state officials hope to resolve the matter sooner than that.

TheOldMan
03-11-2014, 09:56 PM
Here's a link to the story I mentioned in my previous post:

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/local/horry_county/article_52060656-a552-11e3-ba81-001a4bcf6878.html

troy12n
03-11-2014, 11:11 PM
I would give them $50 and agree not to send them to jail, it's about all it's worth

ShortlinesUSA
03-12-2014, 01:48 PM
Interesting to see the bit about Palmetto Railways finally come to light. However, there is one big sticking point there-- how does a South Carolina state agency purchase a line outside the state? This presents a sticky situation, because the customers are in South Carolina, yet a significant portion of the line is in North Carolina (which is a portion with no customers and bridges to fix, something which would be a hard sell to any North Carolina agency or other party).

TheOldMan
03-14-2014, 07:53 PM
Here is a link to B&A's reply to the Plaintiffs, which was filed earlier in this week, on March 10.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7f93537688b8e5852573210004b318/4730d1bd7862d60985257c970072fcc6?OpenDocument

Today, the Myrtle Beach Sun-News, in the local news section, has a report on B&A's filing.

Noted in the story is that one of two industries needing railroad service, and planning to locate in Horry County, had dropped out due to the railroad situation.

TheOldMan
03-24-2014, 09:32 PM
Here is a link to a filing by Plaintiffs on March 21, Friday of last week:

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7f93537688b8e5852573210004b318/b2274c9c1fde74e485257ca200731d1a?OpenDocument

Quotation from Page 3:

"... In the opinion of Compaintants, there is a high probability that the negotiations will result in settlement of the Complaint ..."

ShortlinesUSA
04-30-2014, 01:58 PM
And now, the other shoe drops-- Mr. Pippin appears to be in the process of filing for abandonment:

http://www.thestate.com/2014/04/29/3415467/abandonment-move-strikes-heart.html

This may actually be a GOOD thing, because now any party who is truly interested in purchasing the line and operating it will have the opportunity to make an Offer of Financial Assistance (OFA). The Surface Transportation Board (STB) will decide if the offer is reasonable and sound, and if so, Mr. Pippin has no choice but to sell.

The OFA process is a safety valve provision in the abandonment process to prevent operators from abandoning lines without reason. So basically, this brings us to a point that the Interstate Railroad Committee has been pushing for all these months-- Mr. Pippin has to sell if there is truly an operator willing to purchase the line for its appraised value and invest in the infrastructure to make the line viable again.

Does such a party exist? I doubt so in the private sector. The only hope this line has in my opinion is to be purchased by a government agency, and operations contracted out to a third party.

It's a long shot, to say the least...

TheOldMan
04-30-2014, 05:06 PM
Thanks for the post, ShortlinesUSA.

I agree with you, that the only way the railroad in Horry and Columbus Counties can survive will be with State and County aid.

troy12n
04-30-2014, 08:07 PM
I kind of doubt the Counties have the money. Most county governments are broke

TheOldMan
05-20-2014, 08:31 PM
Here is a link to the latest report, with B & A's abandonment filing of the Tabor City to Conway track being postponed for 60 days from May 14.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/local/horry_county/article_e7075626-dc73-11e3-b404-001a4bcf6878.html

TheOldMan
05-28-2014, 05:30 PM
Latest news was in the current Myrtle Beach Herald, published last week.

At a recent County Council meeting, the Council went into executive session to discuss the railroad, and afterwards, it was publicly stated that the council had voted in the executive seession to do something, but what it was the council voted to do was not
told.

The MB Herald had an editorial saying that matters realting to the railroad, and a possible County purchase of it, must be known publicly, and questioning if the Freedom of Information act could have possibly been been violated by the council's action.

Have done a Net search, but so far have not found a link to that editorial to post here.

ShortlinesUSA
05-29-2014, 01:20 AM
FOIA requests typically take a while, but as long as the information is not a matter of national security, it will eventually be handed over. And the county will probably have already released the info by then.

Another option is to redact (aka line out with a black marker) any sensitive info, such as the precise name of a party with whom the county is trying to consummate a deal.

Which reminds me of a classic headline from The Onion: "CIA Finally Realizes it has been Using Black Highlighters All These Years."

You need an occasional laugh when dealing with endless bureaucracy...

BR549
06-07-2014, 02:48 PM
Just let me hit the mega millions, and we'll be able to put this thread to rest.

TheOldMan
06-19-2014, 06:36 PM
The Good Old Days . . . when there were occasional passenger trains into Myrtle Beach, and from Conway to Homewood and back.

Good Old Days when we could occasionally ride a passenger train right here in Horry County.

Good Old Days which many of us fear may be Gone Forever.

This is the last passenger train is the last one I know of into Myrtle Beach.

If anyone knows of any passenger trains into Myrtle Beach since this one in September of 2006, I'd like to know about them.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5540/14458677922_4315f41307_z.jpg

From the Myrtle Beach Herald, September 28, 2006, page 1-A.

Joe the Photog
06-20-2014, 02:38 AM
I found this article today from 1993 in Pippin's previous home --

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-04-04/news/1993094054_1_pippin-freight-line-light-rail

TheOldMan
06-23-2014, 06:34 PM
Thanks for posting the link, Joe. That was a good story.

Joe the Photog
07-12-2014, 05:21 AM
They have evidently scrapped the old N&W GP18 #943 (later WCL, same number)

TheOldMan
07-14-2014, 03:47 PM
Joe, I also heard that by word of mouth Saturday of last week, at Grand Strand Western.

Today, July 14, is two months, from Mr. Pippin's postponement of his Abandonment filing.

Checked the FTSB filings, and so far only one filing today, and it was not by B & A.

TheOldMan
07-18-2014, 04:59 PM
Here's a link to the latest news, in yesterday's Myrtle Beach Sun-News:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/07/16/4357162/deal-near-on-myrtle-beach-area.html#

TheOldMan
07-21-2014, 03:16 PM
This is the second time that the Interstate Railroad Committee has reported optimism that an agreement to sell B&A's Carolina Southern line will happen.

I wasn't surprised that the first such optimistic report didn't result in a sale of the railroad.

And, I'm sorry to say that I won't be suprised if this second optimistic report of a sale doesn't materialize, although I'd like to think that it will.

Maybe it will take a third time.

Remember the old saying that the third time is "the charm?"

And, there's another saying about the Third time, from Ian Fleming's novel, Goldfinger, where Mr. Auric Goldfinger tells James Bond:

"We have a saying in Chicago: Once is Happenstance, Twice Is Coincedence, and the Third Time, it's . . . "

And, in Mr. Fleming's novel, there is a connection to railroads.

Goldfinger attempts to hijack a train into Fort Knox, and his attempt is described in vivid detail.

The novel has a map of the railroad there.

ShortlinesUSA
07-23-2014, 05:38 PM
I am hearing this agreement mentioned in the article will be announced today (Wednesday 7/23).

Of course, all this amounts to as the STB setting a price for the sale of the railroad. That still doesn't mean there is a buyer.


Here's a link to the latest news, in yesterday's Myrtle Beach Sun-News:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/07/16/4357162/deal-near-on-myrtle-beach-area.html#

BR549
07-23-2014, 10:02 PM
Myrtle Beach Online just dropped the article. It basically says the Pippins are moving forward to file for abandonment for all but the last seven active miles of the railroad. If a buyer is found, they can lease those seven miles between Nichols and Mullins from the Pippins.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/07/23/4369769/carolina-southern-settlement-to.html?sp=/99/101/

ShortlinesUSA
07-24-2014, 12:00 AM
Am I being overly skeptical when I see those 7 miles being a future point of contention?

TheOldMan
07-24-2014, 06:40 PM
Am I being overly skeptical when I see those 7 miles being a future point of contention?

I don't think you are being in the least bit skeptical, and share your skepticism.

What we read about from these links yesterday was front page headlines in today's Myrtle Beach Sun-News.

TheOldMan
08-05-2014, 08:16 PM
Below is a link to the Plaintiffs' (excluding BP Chemical) motion to dismiss their complaint against Baltimore & Annapolis, filed on July 23 of this year.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/Filings/all.nsf/6084f194b67ca1c4852567d9005751dc/a2cfcc90997ece9b85257d1e00577df2/$FILE/236348.pdf

(Moderator note, attempting with Google short URL) http://goo.gl/WO3cg5


Am posting this one twice, because the URL I used in my previous post did not become highlighted on posting, and the edit button is not available.

Well, this second link is not highlighted either, although I did get the edit button after posting it.

TheOldMan
08-25-2014, 05:25 PM
Ysterday, I finally got to Red Hill, South Carolina, and took some photos of what I may have mentioned in previous posts.

Coastal Bio-Diesel Group, which to my understanding, both cleans, or did clean, tank cars, and ships out or did ship out, reprocessed cookinig oil in tank cars, in the past usually had only one tank car on their sidiing, but later they had three tank cars.

I have a very clear memory of all 3 tank cars being on their siding after the bridge closings, but now there is only one tank car left. I should have taken photos, and noted the date, while all 3 tank cars were still there, so I'd have proof of my memories.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3901/15029972041_cf0557cf8e.jpg

New South Lumber Company, which shipped out lumber, has one high bulkhead flat car on their siding.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3902/15029972221_893136d856.jpg

ShortlinesUSA
08-26-2014, 12:48 PM
Thank you for posting the photos. Looks like the states are seriously considering purchase of the line:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/08/20/4423748/railroad-resolution-hits-a-snag.html

TheOldMan
08-27-2014, 03:55 PM
Thanks for the link, ShortlinesUSA.

I hope that eventually the railroad can be repaired, reopen, get high volume traffic and earn a profit.

TheOldMan
09-18-2014, 04:23 PM
Latest news on B&A, dba Carolina Southern, CALA

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/business/article_0cd11fdc-3eb1-11e4-b1ab-0017a43b2370.html

TheOldMan
10-07-2014, 06:36 PM
Last report I heard was that Horry County's purchase of the railroad would be discussed in executive session, last item on the agenda for tonight's Horry County Council meeting.

I plan to watch the meeting on local cable TV.

Joe the Photog
10-07-2014, 11:41 PM
Columbus, NC has already pitched in a few dollars --

http://www.carolinalive.com/news/story.aspx?id=1106568#.VDRrbcstDIU

Columbus County OKs nearly $2 million for Carolina Southern Railroad

(AP) -- WHITEVILLE, N.C. -- Columbus County commissioners have agreed to spend nearly $2 million in tax incentives over the next decade to get the Carolina Southern Railroad rolling again in North and South Carolina.

The Fayetteville Observer reported that the board voted Monday night to approve $1.8 million in tax incentives for an unnamed buyer of the line that serves Columbus County, as well as Horry and Marion counties in South Carolina.

TheOldMan
10-08-2014, 04:16 PM
Joe:

Thanks for the post.

I was planning to watch the Horry County Council meeting last night, but could not find any channel on my cable TV that carried it, although in the past I always could do so.

Was in a hurry to get to work this morning, but top right column of front page of the Sun News said that Horry County Council agreed to put $1.8 million into the railroad.

That was all I could read before the page fold, since the newspaper was in the box.

Now that I am on a work break, will read more.

Joe the Photog
10-11-2014, 03:16 PM
Carolina Southern could roll again by next spring

Businesses in Horry and Columbus, N.C., counties could have rail service again next spring if a $13.6 million deal now in the works is completed.

Mark Lazarus, Horry County Council chairman, confirmed the sale price Thursday.

Read more here: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/10/09/4527586_carolina-southern-could-roll-again.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

TheOldMan
11-19-2014, 02:59 PM
Thanks for the good news, Joe.

Now, for some bad news, in the comments section of the Net news story, "Why Horry County is investing nearly $2 million to repair a railroad."

http://www.carolinalive.com/news/story.aspx?id=1109305#.VGysZGd0w2w

Scroll down to the comment by Greg Paul:

"our fine county council needs to remember the state did almost 4 million dollars worth of renovations to the draw bridge at the pottery and the operator house has been totaled by vandalism and theft of the copper wires."

I've done a net search to find out further details of this bad news, and so far nothing.

I would think there would be some crime reports on this.

I do remember about 10 or so years ago, a report that a window glass had been broken at the drawbridge, but nothing like what Mr. Paul says.

Oh, how I long for the Good Old Days of the 1980s, when Jerry Ausband was editor of the Sun-news, and everything related to the railroad was given major coverage.

Such a bad situation at the drawbridge would have been front page in the Sun-News, and there would have been an editorial urging that the vandals be found and punished to the max.

What Mr. Paul says sounds (or, reads), very bad, and like it would be very expensive to repair. And, if and when the railroad is reopened, greater security measures would be needed at the drawbridge.

TheOldMan
12-02-2014, 07:04 PM
I was a bit surprised to learn that a TV station in Tuscon, Arizona, would be reportinig on the sale of B & A's Carolina Southern line. Here's a link to it, altho it looks like it might require membership to view.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/27369589/negotiations-underway-for-interstate-carolina-southern-railroad

AntD.
12-05-2014, 05:48 PM
RJ Corman is it! http://m.myhorrynews.com/news/article_e566c0c6-7be8-11e4-8408-5f71439d671c.html?mode=jqm

TheOldMan
12-06-2014, 03:25 PM
Thanks for the links, AntD.

Hope that RJ Corman will be able to make the railroad successful.

ShortlinesUSA
12-07-2014, 01:11 AM
Very interesting development here. RJ Corman is an interesting choice, and possibly due to the fact they can handle the bridge and trackwork in house, making the cost of getting the line back in service a bit less for them than other operators who would have to contract these services out.

Hopefully all of the final details are worked out and this goes through. I'm also curious if the provision of the Pippens owning the last few miles of track at Mullins will stand. I would think RJ Corman executives have been around this business long enough to know that part of the deal stinks worse than a manure pile on a cattle ranch.

Joe the Photog
12-12-2014, 12:09 AM
Still percolating

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/deal-to-sell-columbus-county-railroad-to-kentucky-company-is/article_a7cd5402-fc6c-5608-bdf6-6e3567b7fe14.html

TheOldMan
12-12-2014, 06:28 PM
Thanks for posting the link, Joe.

TheOldMan
12-12-2014, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the post, ShortlinesUSA.

. . . I'm also curious if the provision of the Pippens owning the last few miles of track at Mullins will stand. I would think RJ Corman executives have been around this business long enough to know that part of the deal stinks worse than a manure pile on a cattle ranch.

Your post above, states things much stronger than you did in Post 186, on Page 9, where you asked:

"Am I being overly skeptical when I see those 7 miles being a future point of contention?"

Also, in some of the reports I have red it is stated that B & A will keep the Depot in Conway.

Will the House Track and Runaround track(s) at the depot be sold to the new owners?

ShortlinesUSA
12-13-2014, 02:28 AM
I have to admit, you caught me off teleprompter on that one! ;-) I would tend to think anything track related will go to the new owners. Sounds like the Pippins may want to retain the depot as their base of operations, for whatever future endeavors they wish.

I recall walking in there to check on what was going on for the day many years ago, and marveling at what a palatial estate they had for a relatively small shortline.

Joe the Photog
12-18-2014, 12:04 AM
Video of a story that aired tonight. Negotiations are ongoing --

http://www.carolinalive.com/news/story.aspx?id=1137625#.VJIZmMs5DIU

TheOldMan
12-19-2014, 06:37 PM
Thanks for the post, Joe.

The front page of the Sun-News also had a story yesterday, which said that Corman was not planning to run tourist season excursion trains, but might run such trains at Halloween and Christmas.

Of course, it was stated as usual, that Corman's policy is to nether confirm or deny that any saloe negoitiations are going on.

ShortlinesUSA
01-15-2015, 02:31 PM
Looks like the deal is a go. See the STB link below for official details. It appears the Pippins will only retain ownership of a mile of track in Whiteville, so the portion we have discussed about them retaining the last few miles into Mullins appears to be off the table.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ba7f93537688b8e5852573210004b318/d129a2fc982e427085257dcb006fd5f2

It's amazing to me this is all transpiring with an operator at the level of RJ Corman coming in. I hope they can make a go of this line and bring more industry and jobs into a distressed economic area of my home state.

TheOldMan
01-16-2015, 06:11 PM
Thanks for posting the link.

I clicked on it and saved it for further study.

It seems like the "closing date?" for the sale is Feb 11 of this year.

Will have to do some calculating to locate the Whiteville Mile which B & A will be keeping.

Any idea what the purpose of their keeping that one mile will be?

I remember that the original proposal to keep the 7 miles from Mullins to Nichols, and charge Corman a lease payment per car.

So far, I haven't seen if Corman will be charged a payment for the right to operate over the Whiteville Mile.

Like yourself, I am hoping that with Corman having a good reputation, they will be able to attract high volume freight shippers needed to make the line successful.

Corman's FSTB filing said they did not expect more than $5 Million yearly? income.

And, the matter of the Horry County owned ffinal 14 miles from Conway to Myrtle Beach.

There is of course, New South, which ships Lumber out, and Builder's First Source, and 84 Lumber, which ship lumber and drywall in, both of these being low volume shippers.

Also, would Coastal Biodiesel, which shipped tank cars in and out of their Red Hill location, be reopeing, if the Conway-Myrtle Beach track is reopened?

In his filing with the FSTB, Mr. Pippin said the company (formerly called Martin Marietta) that owns the high volume crushed stone facility at Pine Island, would no longer be shipping to that location.

Would they change their minds, or sell the facility to another crushed stone company that could be interested?

For now, the main concern is getting the Mullins to Whiteville and Conway track back into operating condition, which Corman says they will start doing after the sale is completed.

TheOldMan
01-17-2015, 04:47 PM
I looked at Corman's FSTB filing closer, and February 11, 2015 was called the date of "consummation" of the sale of the railroad, noting that that was not the "closing date."

Also, the "Whiteville Mile," which B&A is keeping ownership of, is the final mile to the terminal point of the Whiteville line.

Joe the Photog
01-20-2015, 03:46 AM
I just saw this. Still nothing I can find in local media. Thanks for posting, Mike.

TheOldMan
01-20-2015, 05:21 PM
Joe, I found one Net story on the sale, in a Net magazine, which has only a headline, and the first few lines of the story, then "read more" and of course, a paid subscription is required to read the rest.

Printed out a copy, and gave it to an interested friend.

Here's a link to the magazine:

http://www.easternrailroadnews.com/

Joe the Photog
01-20-2015, 05:42 PM
I have a few calls in to get more information. I can't access the Eastern Railroad News site either right now. Bummer, because that was one link I was hoping to provide a possible article to about this. I'm interested in hearing about the line in Horry County.

Joe the Photog
01-22-2015, 12:33 AM
More on Corman coming in including a steel mill waiting to hear for sure before announcing a plant in Loris --

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2015/01/21/4740245/carolina-southern-sale-nearing.html

ShortlinesUSA
01-22-2015, 01:18 AM
I have access to ERN, and the story is nothing more than the STB filing I provided above, so no worries.

I have strong suspicions the Pippins are holding onto the Whiteville Mile for some sort of tax purposes. That is, they are still "in the business" and getting some sort of benefit from this status. This is only my speculation; I do not have any firm knowledge of the implications of still owning a piece of the railroad.

Joe the Photog
01-22-2015, 03:40 AM
Maybe TOM can confirm, but someone on Facebook said that stretch of track is overgrown with a row of boxcars sitting on it.

TheOldMan
01-22-2015, 03:36 PM
Maybe TOM can confirm, but someone on Facebook said that stretch of track is overgrown with a row of boxcars sitting on it.

Thanks for the post, Joe.

Yesterday, I had to go to Homewood, SC, on Highway 701, which parallels the railroad from Conway to Loris.

Will check out that stretch of track later.

Just where is the Industrial park, located in Loris?

Recently there was a question about whether CALA has any locomotives at the depot in Conway.

I drove by there yesterday, and, yes, there is one locomotive on the house track with some freight cars.

Will get some photos.

In my observations of the track along Highway 701 yesterday, I was surprised that what I did see of it, was remarkably free of weeds.

But, that was in the area from Conway to Homewood, not Loris.

BR549
01-22-2015, 06:35 PM
Some years ago, a cut of open-top hoppers that resembled coal cars were placed on the further most end of the line into Whiteville, stopping just short of downtown. It was almost as many to constitute being called a unit train. At the point of the economic crash in 2008 when more and more railcars began being put in storage, more storage cars of various type were placed on the mainline beyond the Georgia Pacific plant towards Whiteville, essentially "blocking in" the coal cars. The last time I was in Whiteville (at least 5 years ago), vegetation and trees had already overtaken the coal cars. At the point in time when the railroad shut down in 2011, there were so many storage cars on the Whiteville end of the railroad, access to Georgia Pacific had been choked out. I'm pretty certain that the cut of storage cars on the Whiteville end of the railroad now end just on the Chadbourn side of Peacocks Crossing.

Tom, Loris Industrial Park is located on the north side of Loris, just to the north of Food Lion on the left if you're headed towards Tabor City. There was no railroad access to the industrial park prior to the railroad shutting down, but it wouldn't take much to make it happen.

As far as locomotives in Conway, the 3617 and 100 were the two that got trapped in Conway after the shut down.

Personally, I couldn't think of a more experienced and well equipped company to be coming into this picture. Corman is beating G&W out of third-party switching contracts left and right, if that says anything about their service. I see nothing but good things coming out of this deal.

TheOldMan
01-22-2015, 07:34 PM
BR549, thanks for the post.

In all the years I went to Whiteville in the late 1990s and early 200s, I never realized that the lumber company right before the end of the line was Georgia Pacific.

Although it seemed to be open at the time, I never noticed any trains on the sidings (I think there was more than one).

I know that in the press reports, it was mentioned that there was a second filing by Corman, in which they stated that if they did not come to a final agreement with B&A dba CS, CAALA, they would file with the FSTB to force the sale.

Of course, that's second hand, and I plan to read the filing to know exactly what was said.

Took some photos of the track and rolling stock in Homewood, South Carolina, within the past hour.

Three hopper cars at the farm supply company. I suppose those could be empties that were caught by the closing.

Also, three more hopper cars some distance down that same track, which I would suppose might have been storage cars.

BR549
01-23-2015, 05:29 AM
BR549, thanks for the post.

In all the years I went to Whiteville in the late 1990s and early 200s, I never realized that the lumber company right before the end of the line was Georgia Pacific.

Although it seemed to be open at the time, I never noticed any trains on the sidings (I think there was more than one).

I know that in the press reports, it was mentioned that there was a second filing by Corman, in which they stated that if they did not come to a final agreement with B&A dba CS, CAALA, they would file with the FSTB to force the sale.

Of course, that's second hand, and I plan to read the filing to know exactly what was said.

Took some photos of the track and rolling stock in Homewood, South Carolina, within the past hour.

Three hopper cars at the farm supply company. I suppose those could be empties that were caught by the closing.

Also, three more hopper cars some distance down that same track, which I would suppose might have been storage cars.

Up until the mid-to-late nineties, the MRR/CALA would take a boxcar all the way to the very end of the line in Whiteville to Whiteville Plywood. That customer, just like 84 Lumber in Myrtle Beach, became to be more trouble than they were worth, and the business went away. That was the last need to go beyond Jones, where Georgia Pacific is located.

Georgia Pacific used to be very busy. They used to get loads of particle board and dry waste sawdust off of one track, wood chips off of 2 different tracks, plywood out of another, and lumber on the last. It was nothing for us to come out of the plant with any where from 15 to 20 cars a night. And then the economy happened.

I think the hopper cars you saw at Homewood were cars that were involved in one of the many derailments they've had down on that end of the line. Were they SCWX hoppers?

TheOldMan
01-23-2015, 03:24 PM
Thanks for the post, BR549.

I took some photos of those two 3 car trains yesterday, and will post them here, so you can see exactly where they are.

Joe the Photog
01-25-2015, 04:41 AM
A blog post from tonight

http://joethephotog.com/blogs/end-of-the-line-for-the-carolina-southern-railroad.html

TheOldMan
01-28-2015, 04:58 PM
Thanks for posting the link to the blog, Joe.

It is very good.

ShortlinesUSA
01-31-2015, 02:58 AM
Nicely done, Joe. I'm glad you took the time to do your blog. It is a very nice capture of what has gone down the past few years.

Joe the Photog
01-31-2015, 04:06 AM
Thanks, Mike and Old Man. I only wish I could have got there more often than I did. I hope to be able to rectify that with Corman coming in,

TheOldMan
02-03-2015, 09:07 PM
Thanks for the reply, Joe.

I'm sure you'll enjoy shooting the repairs to the Mullins-Whiteville-Conway railroad, after R.J. Corman begins to do them.

My main camera is now in the repair shop, and all I had to shoot with in Homewood, as a handycam, basically for closeups, so these were not as sharp as I would have wanted.

First, at the farm supply company on US 701 at Homewood.

Those cars look to me like they would be in the unloading location.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/16251555709_322a2359df.jpg

Second photo is looking North on US 701, toward Loris. These 3 hopper cars are further up the same track the other 3 were on, past the grade crossing into another industry, a concrete company? Not sure. I have seen maps of the Homewood yard area, and there are one or possibly two runaround tracks and a dead end track, probably the one these two short trains are on.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8590/16251555849_262962e426.jpg

BR549
02-09-2015, 10:18 PM
Some years ago, a cut of open-top hoppers that resembled coal cars were placed on the further most end of the line into Whiteville, stopping just short of downtown. It was almost as many to constitute being called a unit train. At the point of the economic crash in 2008 when more and more railcars began being put in storage, more storage cars of various type were placed on the mainline beyond the Georgia Pacific plant towards Whiteville, essentially "blocking in" the coal cars. The last time I was in Whiteville (at least 5 years ago), vegetation and trees had already overtaken the coal cars. At the point in time when the railroad shut down in 2011, there were so many storage cars on the Whiteville end of the railroad, access to Georgia Pacific had been choked out. I'm pretty certain that the cut of storage cars on the Whiteville end of the railroad now end just on the Chadbourn side of Peacocks Crossing.

On a complete whim this past Saturday, I took a roadtrip to explore the line between Mullins and Whiteville. Things have drastically changed between Chadbourn and Whiteville since the last time I was in that area ... at least 5 years ago.

The line between Chadbourn and Whiteville is only occupied by storage cars in 2 places. The first cut is located just outside of Chadbourn between the road crossings of Sunny South Rd (which parallels the tracks headed east out of Chadbourn) and Peacocks Crossing. <see attachments 1 & 2>

The line is heavily overgrown between Peacocks Crossing and the Georgia Pacific plant in Jones. There's no way anything could pass through that area without any tree/vegetation removal. <see attachments 3-5>

Not pictured is another cut of storage cars on the mainline between the switches of the storage track at Jones.

And just beyond the Georgia Pacific plant is a make shift scrap yard beside the tracks where someone has been busy cutting up all the cars that were previously trapped between the Georgia Pacific plant and Whiteville. <see the rest of the attachments>

There are only 3 cars left on the track between Jones and Whiteville, and they're positioned right beside the make shift scrap yard awaiting dismantling. The track from that point on to the end of the track in Whiteville is clear with the exception of heavy vegetation overgrowth. All those open top hoppers that I had previously mentioned at Whiteville were gone.

The depot in Chadbourn was eerie looking. The Carolina Southern sign had been removed and all the windows were boarded up like a crack house in the ghetto. The 951, 2613, 958, 2005 and 950 were all sitting in close proximity to the depot along with the old M5 caboose, continuing to rust. The place looked like nothing less than what you'd see in a ghost town.

It's been mentioned on the Carolina Southern Facebook page that there's been some work going on in the Conway area. Apparently they're scrapping some old rail that's been laying beside the track. Judging from that information along with some other things I've been hearing, it sounds like the Pippins are busy trying to get every last dime out of that place before RJ Corman moves in. From what little bit I saw this past Saturday, Corman is definitely going to have their work cut out for themselves when they take over.

Joe the Photog
02-10-2015, 12:45 AM
There was a filing made to the STB on behalf of the Pippins last week. If what you say is true, they may be buying a little extra time.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/6084f194b67ca1c4852567d9005751dc/ca059bc029bfdee585257de300474517

TheOldMan
02-25-2015, 05:10 PM
I suppose by now that everyone has seen the report in section B of today's Myrtle Beach Sun-News about the court ruling on the 30 hopper cars stranded at the crushed stone plant at Pine Island.

Here's a link:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2015/02/24/4808233/federal-judge-orders-myrtle-beach.html

And, a link to a report by hawaiinewsnow:

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/28193278/carolina-southern-railroad-ordered-to-pay-103k-for-stranded-cars

TheOldMan
03-04-2015, 08:08 PM
Next week, it will be a month since RJ Corman's date for "consummation" of their purchase of Carolina Southern, of February 11, and Carolina Southern's FSTB filing the week before that of February 11, that contrary to what RJ Corman had said in their earlier filing, that CS's board of directors had not approved the sale.

Anyone hear any news about what might be happening?

I'm going to visit the SLBC filings page, to see if there have been any filings by either railroad since B&A dba CS RR' s last filing.

troy12n
03-05-2015, 08:11 PM
Another shortline owner shyster!

TheOldMan
03-06-2015, 02:54 PM
Thanks for the post, Troy!

It's been awhile, and your comments are always a delight to read.

troy12n
03-09-2015, 06:11 PM
Thanks for the post, Troy!

It's been awhile, and your comments are always a delight to read.

I have no idea why you people are posting to this thread, it's going on 4 years and you are all talking about a dead railroad, where nothing has happened but some shyster shortline owner getting one over on society

Weekly status update: some more grass grew, the trees growing inbetween the gauge got bigger, the rails are still rusty

BR549
03-14-2015, 01:21 AM
I have no idea why you people are posting to this thread, it's going on 4 years and you are all talking about a dead railroad, where nothing has happened but some shyster shortline owner getting one over on society

Weekly status update: some more grass grew, the trees growing inbetween the gauge got bigger, the rails are still rusty

Troy, I have no idea why you keep reading this thread ... considering you don't have a dog in this fight.

In other news, RJ Corman is taking Carolina Southern to court, which they threatened to do if a deal weren't worked out in a timely manner. That's all that's really mentioned in the following article ...
http://www.myhorrynews.com/paid_content/article_93b901c4-c447-11e4-b068-6fecb41e534e.html

And today, RJ Corman posted on their Facebook page that they're holding a Job Fair in Nicholasville, KY tomorrow. They're looking to hire multiple Operator and Laborer positions on their traveling Construction crews as well as other positions with their company. They stated the job fair stemmed from "rapid growth". Unless they have acquired more business elsewhere recently, it sounds like they're rounding up the troops.

ShortlinesUSA
03-14-2015, 07:13 PM
Thanks for the useful info BR549 and TOM. Yeah, life was just fine without Troy, but he decided he needed some attention and has decided to grace us with his presence again.

troy12n
03-16-2015, 11:31 PM
You want me on that wall... you NEED me on that wall

BR549
03-17-2015, 04:36 AM
Another article concerning the RJ Corman/Carolina Southern sale dispute. This article goes into more detail than the original article that was posted last week. It also brings to light additional drama facing the Pippins.
http://www.scnow.com/news/business/article_6e5ccea0-c7f4-11e4-817c-6b8620fdec22.html

ShortlinesUSA
03-17-2015, 12:11 PM
One of the thoughts which crossed my mind when the sale was announced was "The Pippins will manage to screw this up somehow." Looks like that is well underway. Thanks for the additional link.

TheOldMan
03-20-2015, 08:14 PM
Here is the text of the filing the Carolina Southern filing by their attorney Louis Gitomer, the week before the date of the consummation of the sale was expected to take place by RJ Corman.

237690

ENTERED

Office of Proceedings

February 4, 2015

Part of Public Record

Ms. Cynthia T. Brown
Chief of the Section Administration, Office of Proceedings
Surface Transportation Board
395 E Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20423

[b][i]RE: Docket No. FD35897, R.J. Corman Railroad Company/Carolina Lines, LLC-Acquisition and Operation Exemption-The Baltimore and Annapolis Railroad Company, d/b/a Carolina Southern Railroad Company[b/][i]

Dear Ms. Brown:

The Baltimore and Annapolis Railroad Company, d/b/a Carolina Southern Railroad Company ("Carolina Southern") notifies the Surface Transportation Board that contrary to the representations made by R.J. Corman Railroad Company/Carolina Carolina Lines, LLC ("Applicant") in the Notice of Exemption filed on January 12, 2015, at pages 3-4, that the agreement is not a final agreement, but an executory contract, titled Terms of Agreement, subject to the approval of the interested parties' Boards of Directors. The Board of Directors of Carolina southern, an interested party as the seller, has not approved the Terms of Agreement or a formal written agreement. However, Carolina Southern hopes to enter a formal agreement with Applicant in short order.

This letter is being efiled. If you have any questions, please call or email me.

Sincerely yours,

Louis E. Gitomer
Attorney for The Baltimore and Annapolis
Railroad Company, d/b/a Carolina Southern
Railroad Company Cd: Mr. Wimbish

This letter is being efiled. If you have any questions, please call me.

TheOldMan
04-17-2015, 06:32 PM
Here's a link to a story on the latest meeting of the Interstate Railroad Committee.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/paid_content/article_f803c60e-d19a-11e4-b5a1-43d210932b7d.html

TheOldMan
04-18-2015, 05:28 PM
That newspaper story in my last post seems to be one that is not complete.

I has the "subscription required," notice afterward.

I think that Lacy, who I have occasionally had email communication with, who I did meet at Committee meetings, writes for a Whiteville North Carolina newspaper, and I do not want to drive that far in my car to get a copy of the whole story.

I might have related my aborted efforts to find Whiteville newspapers in Loris, South Carolina, some time back.

Loris is drivng farther than I'd want to, but I think that some of Lacy's stories might have also been in another newspaper that was available in, or near Loris.

I have thought of making a trip to Chadburn, to see and photograph the 18 or 19 car BP chemical train, if it is still on the house track at the Chadburn depot, and even to Nichols & Mullins to visit the tobacco museum, and see if there is any activity on that still useable part of Carolina Southern.

BR549
05-29-2015, 01:27 PM
This comment was posted to the Carolina Southern Facebook page:

It looks like the lawsuit is scheduled to enter arbitration or mediation on Sept 30th. So it may still be a while.

A newspaper article from early this year predicted trains to be running by the spring. Looks more like spring of next year at this point.

ShortlinesUSA
06-01-2015, 03:07 PM
Thanks for the update. It is truly amazing how long this has dragged out. I would say there is little chance of an arbitrator/mediator seeing much in the Pippin's favor. I would rather see it go to an arbitrated settlement. I think that would ultimately go more quickly and just close the book on this saga, one way or another.

ShortlinesUSA
06-25-2015, 03:56 PM
And there is good news today! I am very glad to see this settled without a court battle.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/short_lines_regionals/news/R-J-Corman-reaches-agreement-to-acquire-Carolina-Southern--44880

TheOldMan
06-25-2015, 08:56 PM
Glad that it won't go on until September as was first expected.

mowingman
06-25-2015, 09:41 PM
It will really be a sight to see, when those Corman crews go to work on that line. They will have a huge crew and massive amounts of equipment when they roll into town. I saw them do a complete upgrade/rebuild of a long idle coal-hauling line in southern W.Va. It is amazing what they can accomplish in a short amount of time.

troy12n
06-29-2015, 10:31 PM
So when is corman going to start scrapping the line?

troy12n
06-29-2015, 10:32 PM
It will really be a sight to see, when those Corman crews go to work on that line. They will have a huge crew and massive amounts of equipment when they roll into town. I saw them do a complete upgrade/rebuild of a long idle coal-hauling line in southern W.Va. It is amazing what they can accomplish in a short amount of time.

There was money to be made on that line, assuming you are talking about the Loup Creek sub out of Thurmond to Oak Hill, WV... it's a money maker for them, not sure there is any money to be made here

mowingman
06-30-2015, 02:05 AM
Yes, Loup Creek is the line I was thinking of.
I am sure they have done their homework. There is money to be made somewhere on this line, or they would not be working this hard to make the deal happen.

TheOldMan
07-08-2015, 09:45 PM
I had been wondering if RJ Corman would be interested i the Conway-Myrtle Beach track owned by Horry County, since owners of the crushed stone plant at Pine Island had told Mr. Pippin, that they would be making no more shipments to that location.

I suppose that the plant could be sold to another crushed stone shipper who would want to ship there.

But, for the present, New South and 84 Lumber, Bulider's First Source, and Lowes, are all reliatively small volume shippers.

Coastal Biodiesel, which cleaned tank cars and shipped cooking oil in tank cars, has apparently gone out of business. I'm wondering if they would reopen if the railroad were once again operating?

Actually, the possibility of once again getting the kind of high volume traffic needed for a successful and profitable railroad is the same on all parts of the track from Mullins, on to Whiteville, Conway and Myrtle Beach, is very iffy, although I know that Corman would not be investing so much in the railroad purchase and repairs if they didn't think they had a good chance of getting high volume traffic.

In the Myrtle Beach Herald of July 3, 2015, this question is answered in an article at the bottom of the front page, titled, "You may have to stop, look and listen again," continued on page 2.

" . . . The agreement does not include the 15-mile stretch of rail that runs between Conway and Myrtle Beach. That line is owned by Horry County and has been leased to Carolina Southern.

"Bill Henderson, vice-president of sales and marketing for Corman, said the company is in negotiations with the county for that line and he's optimistic they'll be able to come up with suitable terms for a lease.

"He said once the rail is set to re-open, corman will launch a public awareness campaign to let people know to watch for trains again.

" 'Folks along The line have not been used to watching for trains at intersections and we want them to be aware the line is in operation,' Henderson said. 'Safety has always been a top priority for us'

Tom O'Dare 448-7261"