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B.Erdmann
01-23-2007, 02:03 AM
:x


ok when i have the day off i go to see whats going on at the railroad thne i find something intresting. the SD 45 is rare & i thought they make exceptiosn for rare units & the IC was as close as i could get. i took them on the besr quality.

if they reject them when i re do them i AM OFFICALY NOT GOING TO UPLOAD ANY MORE TO THIS SITE & I WILL NOT RECOMEND IT TO ANYONE.

like i said the screeners gave me crap once again. this does not make me happy. when i had the time to go & get photos they reject them. i think this site seems like you have to be a pro at it. & im only a BEGINER start from the bottom & i dont think this site should expect beginners to have it perfect off the top.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=330047
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=330044

Frederick
01-23-2007, 02:48 AM
:x


Ok when i have the day off i go to see whats going on at the railroad then i find something interesting. the SD 45 is rare & i thought they make exceptions for rare units & the IC was as close as i could get. i took them on the best quality.

if they reject them when i re do them i AM OFFICIALY NOT GOING TO UPLOAD ANY MORE TO THIS SITE & I WILL NOT RECOMMEND IT TO ANYONE.

Like i said the screeners gave me crap once again. this does not make me happy. when i had the time to go & get photos they reject them. i think this site seems like you have to be a pro at it. & I'm only a BEGINNER start from the bottom & i don't think this site should expect beginners to have it perfect off the top.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=330047
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=330044

If you ever want photos on this site, then you have to listen to the advice we give you, and use your rejections as a guideline to improve your shots.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net is a fine place to upload photos that aren't good enough for Railpics.

JRMDC
01-23-2007, 03:01 AM
:x
if they reject them when i re do them i AM OFFICALY NOT GOING TO UPLOAD ANY MORE TO THIS SITE & I WILL NOT RECOMEND IT TO ANYONE.


I thought you were already long gone?

Seriously, why are you asking for our help? When we give it, you blow us off and give us attitude. You give the site attitude when it is one of the best ways for you to get better (and you do need to get better if you want, not just to have shots be accepted at RP, but to become A BETTER PHOTOGRAPHER).

I can't believe you are actually posting here again given your past history and attitude. Seriously, what are you trying to achieve with your post. Honestly, I have no idea. You don't ask for help, even. You just show some pictures that show you have not learned anything, and you give the site a dose of your attitude. WHAT DO YOU WANT?

F40PH271
01-23-2007, 03:17 AM
i think this site seems like you have to be a pro at it. & im only a BEGINER start from the bottom & i dont think this site should expect beginners to have it perfect off the top.
[/url]

Then how do you ever plan on getting better?

If you expect RP to accept those two photos after you "redo" them, don't even bother.

Bye (again)

Mark Rosnick
01-23-2007, 03:42 AM
You said that you were done with RP.net. You had dozens of people trying to help you out, and all you did was rip on us. Your latest rejects look like all of the other rejects. If you want to become a better photographer, listen to the advice that we're all giving you, and don't cop an attitude. You may just learn something and become a better photographer.

Warren
01-23-2007, 04:03 AM
if they reject them when i re do them i AM OFFICALY NOT GOING TO UPLOAD ANY MORE TO THIS SITE & I WILL NOT RECOMEND IT TO ANYONE.
I bet they are extremely worried they have seen your website! But seriously is this some kinda joke? This guy can't be for real. Can he?

Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
01-23-2007, 04:04 AM
: if they reject them when i re do them i AM OFFICALY NOT GOING TO UPLOAD ANY MORE TO THIS SITE & I WILL NOT RECOMEND IT TO ANYONE.
I'm sorry the advice many of us put time into typing out went right over your head I doubt you even read what we wrote and tried to explain. Not recommending RP or griping (complaining) about it with your little buddies won't help. There are how many THOUSAND different visitors from all over the world visiting RP every day. A group of teenagers who think their shots are God's gift to the world not looking at the site won't put a dent in...well..anything. The majority of people already know about the site whether their opinion is good or bad so it won't be news to them.

im only a BEGINER... Obviously.

And...bye.

Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
01-23-2007, 04:05 AM
I bet they are extremely worried they have seen your website! But seriously is this some kinda joke? This guy can't be for real. Can he?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That view counter keeps rolling over there doesn't it! That was great, Warren.

Chris Starnes
01-23-2007, 04:12 AM
If you expect RP to accept those two photos after you "redo" them, don't even bother.

Just to confirm this point, nothing you do to these images will make them acceptable. Your best course of action at this point is move on to other places. Future submissoins of these images or similar quality images will be a waste of your (and our) time.

Studogg120
01-23-2007, 04:56 AM
im only a BEGINER


I'm only a beginner too, that's what I'm here. And I have learned a whole lot from better photographers.

PLEzero
01-23-2007, 05:48 AM
Your photos are not good. Apparently you did not read our advice before.

I thought you already left?

Bye-bye.

4kV
01-23-2007, 02:55 PM
if they reject them when i re do them i AM OFFICALY NOT GOING TO UPLOAD ANY MORE TO THIS SITE & I WILL NOT RECOMEND IT TO ANYONE.



I'm sure you will turn away dozens of pro photographers from this site by not recommending it.



like i said the screeners gave me crap once again. this does not make me happy. when i had the time to go & get photos they reject them. i think this site seems like you have to be a pro at it. & im only a BEGINER start from the bottom & i dont think this site should expect beginners to have it perfect off the top.


Actually, I think you gave the screeners crap by submitting it in the first place. And the mentality that you are a beginner and they should accept that is downright moronic at best.

By your logic, or lack thereof, I should be able to waltz right into the St. Louis Cardinals office and demand I be placed on the team. Well, yes, I completely suck at baseball, and I haven't played in a while, but they should accept that.

I am a beginning guitar player, too. I can't change a chord to save my ass. I can't pick. I can't strum worth a shit. My two hands don't even work in a coordinated fashion, and if you give me a guitar right now, my playing sounds more like two cats in heat having a fight in a metal trashcan. You know what? I think I am going to join the Rolling Stones. I'll demand they let me in. Sure, I suck, but they should accept the fact I am not good at it and just let me in.

Dude, this site does not expect beginners to have it perfect right away. Neither do the Saint Louis Cardinals or the Rolling Stones. But they also don't necessarily have to have anything to do with you.

And since you are a "BEGINER start from bottom," with the attitude that you have so far conveyed, I'm guessing you are either going to stay there on the bottom, or find a creative way to dig a hole in the bottom and drop even further. I have a four year old kid who acts more mature than this.

Like I said before, I am not sure why I am even wasting my time responding, but why not, eh? Look at the site. Do you see anything on here like you are trying to submit? Are there any wedgie roster shots with the front end of the engine cut off? Crooked like yours? Completely dull, cloudy days of common engines, or for that matter, even uncommon engines? It looks like you take a camera along and press a button. Anyone can do that. The above mentioned four year old did that, with the results you may expect from one that age. For a good photograph, it takes a little bit of practice, discipline, forethought, sometimes an alignment of circumstances over which you have no control, and most importantly, some better attitude. Anyone can take a picture. All you need is a camera and a finger to press the button.

And please be sure to let us all know when you actually "officially" leave. We're all dying to know of your "official" departure.

jfusaro
01-23-2007, 07:45 PM
brent--

please don't leave!

this is waaay too entertaining!

by the way... where did you sign up for the "kim jong il" course in diplomacy?

is it web-based?

i'm wanting to brush-up on my people skills...

jdirelan87
01-23-2007, 08:56 PM
I'll never understand how these wangs look at photos in the database and come to the conclusion that their junk is on the same level :lol:

Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
01-23-2007, 09:27 PM
By your logic, or lack thereof, I should be able to waltz right into the St. Louis Cardinals office and demand I be placed on the team. Well, yes, I completely suck at baseball, and I haven't played in a while, but they should accept that.
Well, Pat, I shall be seeing you when the Cardinals take on the Rockies. Since this new "accept all beginners" rule is in effect I think I'll take up baseball too! LOL

Like I said before, I am not sure why I am even wasting my time responding, but why not, eh?
Because some people actually read the posts and either learn something or get a good laugh out of it. Like was mentioned in an earlier post this thread is basically for entertainment purposes.

Look at the site. Do you see anything on here like you are trying to submit? Are there any wedgie roster shots with the front end of the engine cut off? Crooked like yours? Completely dull, cloudy days of common engines, or for that matter, even uncommon engines? The sad part is that he thinks his horrible photos are just as good as the ones on RP when clearly they aren't even close! In fact everyone that I've ever heard bash RP has the same mentality when 95% of the time their photos don't hold a candle to the shots here.

It is ridiculous to say that only profession photos get accepted and it is not fair to beginners. I'm not a professional I just know how to use my eyes and my brain and most importantly my [camera] equipment when I'm trackside. I have taken some pretty crappy shots which I'm glad I took do to the rarity of the equipment or location but they will never be seen on RP at least for a few decades. The unwritten "rule(s)" are pretty easy to understand: if there is a similar shot of a particular engine/train/location on already why upload it?


I hate to see someone have such a poor attitude and know that his work (even if it improves) will probably never be seen or recognized outside of his little group or from the "viewers" of whatever site he choses.

I'm "officially" done with my post.

IC 6071
01-23-2007, 09:32 PM
Brent, you REALLY need to grow up. The screeners are not giving you crap, they are speaking the truth, the photos you've shown us so far are far from anywhere close to being acceptable for this site. BYE-BYE!

Switched out
01-24-2007, 12:29 AM
if they reject them when i re do them i AM OFFICALY NOT GOING TO UPLOAD ANY MORE TO THIS SITE & I WILL NOT RECOMEND IT TO ANYONE.

like i said the screeners gave me crap once again. this does not make me happy.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/13/13_1_210.gif

John Fladung
01-24-2007, 03:45 AM
I'm not seeing too many shoulders to cry on out there... :grin:

rlfranz
01-25-2007, 09:25 PM
Brent: Grow up and get a life, and stop feeling victimized.

If your are truly interested in improving your photos you are well-advised to take heed of the advice offered in this forum. Many have offered suggestions which you have obviously ignored.

Look at your photos and the ones that are accepted to the RP database and ask yourself "how do mine compare?"

You are becoming very tedious with your complaining about your photos which are obviously cr@p.

Read and heed the advice that the forum administrator and others have offered.

If not, then good bye and good luck.

You need to disappear and go away from this site. You have nothing to offer.

Bunn19
02-05-2007, 03:28 PM
I'm a beginner too, I've only been taking pictures of trains for less than a year. Yeah, the first pictures I submitted here sucked, and got rejected. But I worked on my photography, asked a few questions around here and finally got a photo accepted. Now I have 5 in the database and my photography gets a little better everytime I go take pictures. B.Erdmann, if you would listen to the advice the people on here have to give you and make an attempt to improve your photography, you might actually learn something and get a picture accepted. You'll find that taking good pictures gets easier the more you do it and the more you learn.

jason15c
02-05-2007, 06:45 PM
When I first began taking rail pics in the 1980's, there was no internet where I could hold up my pics and ask for advise. As a result, I spent a very long time taking pictures that totally blew! It must be so much better nowadays for the up and coming photographer to make use of forums like this and websites like railpictures.net where they can ask where they are going wrong, and get loads of advise that will make them better faster. What a shame that this Brent guy doesn't seem to be able to take in any good advise and would rather choose to winge when everyone says his phots suck, even though they are telling him WHY they suck!

Jason

JRMDC
02-05-2007, 11:12 PM
You didn't seem to notice that this thread had died a normal death 11 days ago! :)

Oops, I extended its life also! :)

Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
02-06-2007, 02:35 AM
I noticed it was brought back to life too. Uh oh....I guess this isn't helping.

Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
02-06-2007, 02:36 AM
Remember though, there still are "beginners" reading through these forums looking for advice without asking about it. It's good to hear stories from those who have found the advice of the "expert panel" (hahaha) helpful.

JruDouglas
02-08-2007, 09:21 PM
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net is a fine place to upload photos that aren't good enough for Railpics.

except they can only allow a certain number of new members per month, something like 20

Fotaugrafee, Ink.
02-13-2007, 04:33 AM
I haven't been to the forums in so long! WOW, I miss threads like this.

People charge me with being pompous when I browbeat the nitwits who complain endlessly (ah hell, I've done my share) about their garbage not getting accepted here at RP. This feels like home, where do I sign up to sandbag this critter?

My advice, learn to take a decent photograph by means of (1) using decent equipment, not the 2.1mpx HP digi-cam that came with your new printer; (2) gain a sense of composition; and (3) learn how to expose the damn thing manually! There is nothing worse than consistently using AUTO for every shot you take. I deal with enough people like that in my other photographic interests.

With all due respect to the valiant effort Tim Huemmer supplies at www.rrpicturearchives.net, the majority of the photos posted there are pure crapola. They are the misfit toys that didn't make Santa's "take out" list, and it shows. I'd say that this guy's photos belong over there. Unfortunately, I viewed this thread far too late to actually see the garbage he submitted.

4kV
02-13-2007, 05:28 AM
With all due respect to the valiant effort Tim Huemmer supplies at www.rrpicturearchives.net, the majority of the photos posted there are pure crapola. They are the misfit toys that didn't make Santa's "take out" list, and it shows.

Yes, Tim does a great job, no doubt there. There are a lot of contributors, however, who know nothing more than pointing a cereal box freebie digital camera toward every train they see, then feeling the need to upload every picture they take.


I'd say that this guy's photos belong over there. Unfortunately, I viewed this thread far too late to actually see the garbage he submitted.

Rest assured, they were indeed garbage. It would have been interesting to have seen your reaction to the guy.

By the way, is that teddy bear on your avatar happy to see us, or does he just have an easy sheep at his disposal?

Darryl Rule
03-05-2007, 03:59 AM
While I agree, the overall quality of the material on that site doesn't touch what is on here, I think that site offers a great service. I use it to post pictures without having to wait for a screener to look at them, or shots that I like and others will enjoy too, but may have a blade of grass in front of the pilot of the engine, thus being rejected from this site. Unless it's a subject I am interested in or someone I know posts quality material there, I rarely just open up galleries there, because most times, it is a waste of time. I don't need to see a contributor pick of a gondola taken at 11 at night.

MichaelJ
03-07-2007, 12:31 AM
I think the RailPictures Guidlines have tightened up over the years. As they've grown, developed a reputation for quality photos, the standard has been raised.

I have been a contributor here now for approximately four years. Looking back over my photos here, it is clear that I've learned quite a bit from the crowd. Here are some fine examples from myself as a 'learner.' I think I was even using Dad's Nikon CoolPix 4300 at the time!

[photoid=54836]

[photoid=54876]

[photoid=57069]

[photoid=58626]

... and still one of my favourites (as used by QR complete with RP.Net Copyright Band)
[photoid=54609]

BNSF4682
03-23-2007, 02:26 PM
How about instead of giving the screeners your crap and taking que spots and being in front of actually worothy shots, you should look around the site at pictures from photographers that HAVE EXPERIENCE! RP does not only accept professional photos, they dont judge on the photographer, it is the QUALITY of the photos. If you are a beginner "of the top", you cant expect to have beautiful panning shots and silhouette's. YOU HAVE TO LEARN ALL OF THAT FIRST, AND TEST IT OUT!!!! Look at you, you act like its the screeners fault you have a bad shot. Well, its not. ITS YOUR FAULT! The screeners are just here to make sure GOOD shots get in. Not just pro shots. They cant take all the photo's. Some suck, some are actually worth the time to look at. Think like this. Would you rather look at a bunch of horrible shots, all crappy and everything, not worth a snot OR a few good ones, that you can tell the photographer put TIME into practicing to get it, and took the time to set up, and is actually worth time to look at? Id take the second choice.

WetRailsWA
03-24-2007, 07:30 PM
I think the RailPictures Guidlines have tightened up over the years. As they've grown, developed a reputation for quality photos, the standard has been raised.

Agreed...I've experienced this firsthand, and have been sending pictures to post since 2003. With each passing year I get a larger number of rejections. Sometimes the reasons appear to be subjective canned responses, while others are specific like "we don't accept cloudy day photos of common equipment." Pretty hard to send all-sunny pix, when Seattle is mostly cloudy year-round. Last year I posted a picture of a crossing gate in Cokato MN (http://www.railpixonline.com/Cokato_2006.htm) with tank cars rolling past it at 45 mph; it was rejected "because we just don't accept those types of photos here." Within months I saw a photo that was very similar posted on railpictures.net. I've taken shadow shots (http://www.railpixonline.com/UP_Fife_12312004.htm) of locomotives that have gotten rejected, while shadow shots of locomotives by other members get awards. Why? I really couldn't say other than the sunny day rule, or that I just suck at taking pictures...

I've learned much from what I've seen online at railpictures.net, and am thankful for about half of the feedback I've received when uploading photos. But I think I've probably hit a creative wall; my pictures aren't improving enough to make it on the site anymore. I will never consider myself a professional, but I will say that I have worked hard to take photos in a fashion that the website would like. My efforts - and my equipment - do not appear to match the focus of the site any longer. It is what it is. So I've started my own website and also begun posting on rrpicturearchives. I'll send photos to railpictures.net from time to time when I think I've "got a good one," but no longer do I count on getting it published there. If I get a rejection, then I put the photo on my website instead.

Maybe choosing the fate of my own online photos is the greatest lesson I've learned here.

Mike B.
03-24-2007, 09:36 PM
Agreed...I've experienced this firsthand, and have been sending pictures to post since 2003. With each passing year I get a larger number of rejections.

Maybe choosing the fate of my own online photos is the greatest lesson I've learned here.

I often find myself hoping for the screeners to become more strict.

JRMDC
03-24-2007, 11:05 PM
With all due respect, WetRails, "Cokato MN" is seriously overexposed and "shadow shots" is a dull composition and overexposed, nowhere close in quality to those shots that "get awards.". I suspect that you would benefit greatly by spending more time at RP, developing an eye for what makes a good picture. Make use of these forums for feedback, they are excellent.

Don't get me wrong, your "choosing the fate" point is right on and ultimately you should shoot what you want to shoot in the way you want to shoot it. But based on the two shots (only!), I also think you have a lot to learn, especially in terms of knowing what makes a good shot. If you can't tell why these two were rejected, you do not have an eye for shots, in my view.

Regarding Seattle, I sympathize. I have a number of shots from there (I visit my in-laws from time to time) which are composed and exposed well enough for RP but the light simply was not adequate to the task. Overcast, overcast, overcast. I've only gotten in two, both despite the bad light. Frustrating.

a231pacific
03-25-2007, 12:42 AM
There seem to be two basic types of posters on the forums. The sore loser who complains that his shot has been rejected and the person who genuinely wants to improve. Wet Rails could benefit from posting his work for comment and then paying attention to the comments.

The "Cokato-MN" shot is way over exposed and the highlights are all blown out. This may be because his camera tried to compensate for the cloudy day, or it may be because he overly lightened the shot in his image processing program. The idea of the photo isn't bad and properly exposed might have gotten in. The "shadow shots" photo has had the contrast raised to the point where the sky is blown out and the foreground is nearly black. I doubt if his camera took the shot that way, so it's probably a case of improper image processing.

Post shots like that on the forums, listen and improve or go away and sulk. It's your choice.

My first thread on RP was almost a year ago, asking for advice on a shot that was rejected for being "too dark." I got a lot of useful feedback but ultimately decided not to resubmit it. I took a much better shot in the same location a year later and got a Screener's Choice from it.

[photoid=178423]

I know that paying attention to these forums has helped me to take better photos.

Michael Allen

JimThias
03-25-2007, 09:08 PM
With all due respect, WetRails, "Cokato MN" is seriously overexposed and "shadow shots" is a dull composition and overexposed, nowhere close in quality to those shots that "get awards.". I suspect that you would benefit greatly by spending more time at RP, developing an eye for what makes a good picture. Make use of these forums for feedback, they are excellent.

I think the two pictures he used as examples of something that got rejected (which he believes shouldn't have been) are two VERY poor examples. I've yet to see a picture on railpics that looks as overexposed at the CokatoMN picture. Regardless if I, or the screeners, agree with whether the composition is appropriate or not for RP, the fact remains, it's WAY overexposed and should have never been submitted in the first place. The screener was probably just trying to be nice by giving the excuse he did.

The second shot is way too dark and a poor composition of a silhouette. I've seen a few silhouette shots on this site, and they are very high in quality. Again, poor choice for an example shot that got rejected to base an argument on.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you've really got to check yourself when submitting shots here, and exercise a high level of self-control and quality control.

I was fortunate that the very first shot I ever submitted here was accepted. I thought "wow, this is easy!" Well, it wasn't THAT easy. After a few rejections that irritated the hell out of me and even made me start bitching about this site, I took a step back and re-evaluated this site and the type of pictures and quality they accept. After looking at it from a different perspective, I decided to be more picky about the photos I submitted. Since then, I've had the last 12 pictures in row accepted. I don't get out to shoot as much as I'd like, but when I do, I'm more aware of the quality of images I'm taking, due to what I've learned from this site since discovering it four months ago.

Sorry for rambling...I just had to get that out.

WetRailsWA
03-26-2007, 08:09 AM
It would have been fun to have this group at the crossing that day...

"Cokato MN" was a weird one for lighting; everything was white from snow and reflection, but it was late afternoon about 30 minutes before sundown. Pointed to the west all the photos I took were too dark (http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/58/01222006013jh2.jpg) (btw - I never submitted this one). Pointed to the east they came out like the tank car pic. It's the best photo out of 4 or 5 that I took at that crossing. I personally don't see overexposure, because it's exactly how the light was that day - and typically my Olympus C4040 defaults to a darker picture. I liked the shot then, and still like it now. Maybe it's because I had an enjoyable day and the shot is a nice reminder...who knows. It's okay if I'm the only one who likes the photo. At least I got someone to view it by posting it here :) .

There seem to be two basic types of posters on the forums. The sore loser who complains that his shot has been rejected and the person who genuinely wants to improve. Wet Rails could benefit from posting his work for comment and then paying attention to the comments. Post shots like that on the forums, listen and improve or go away and sulk. It's your choice.

Interesting perspective. Glad to see you posted constructive comments on other strings looking for rejection help. Maybe some of that can come my way on the links towards the bottom of this post. Be decent though...not sure how much longer I'll be a sore loser :wink:

...and should have never been submitted in the first place.
I disagree. How is a guy to discover what works if he doesn't try?

I like taking train photos, even if I'm not a pro. And with 30 years behind a camera of some kind you could probably bet my skill level will make me a perpetual amateur. That's what I meant about "creative wall." Some folks have it and some folks don't. Does it mean I give up and go home because I can't compose a shot to a subjective standard that eludes me? No, it means I keep taking the shots I like and doing the best I know how to do, because to me they represent more than a photo. Often they represent a day out with my oldest son searching for trains and enjoying his company. I'm okay with being a joe-schmoe photographer...life's too short to get wrapped up in one pursuit.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you've really got to check yourself when submitting shots here, and exercise a high level of self-control and quality control.

The thing that boggles my mind is that a person can put hours of thought, planning, and editing into a digital photo and still get a response like this quote, which assumes that the shooter picked up a 27-shot disposable and tried to create art. I think we can all safely say that the intent of each photog here is to take the best photo they know how to take, and to use what skill they have to sort out good from bad. Screeners do the rest. Some of you snap/submit photos with more success than others...be thankful for your gift. I suspect there are a number of people out there who have a point-n-shoot eye for photography - like myself - who will never have the strengths of other posters on railpics. You need us; we make you look good. Someone else also said, "If you can't tell why these two were rejected, you do not have an eye for shots, in my view." Interesting comment, but that's sort of like saying, "If I have to explain it, you'll never understand." I've seen forum tips that are more constructive.

I've trolled the forums since late `05 to get tips. Good stuff. From your comments it's clear they didn't help me much, but I will continue to troll. Some of you have asked to see other examples of photos that were rejected. If you're interested, here are some more:

Rejected for being too dark:
http://www.railpixonline.com/SCL_6.htm
http://www.railpixonline.com/dinner_train_04012006.htm

Don't recall what this was rejected for in 2004:
http://www.railpixonline.com/bnsf_2731.htm

Lighting?
http://www.railpixonline.com/BNSF_2189.htm

Constructive comments are always welcome. Thanks.

Ween
03-26-2007, 08:36 AM
Some of you snap/submit photos with more success than others...be thankful for your gift.

There's no 'gift' in photography, really. Yes, some people have an eye for composition more so than others, but the basics of photography are pretty much a science. Doing X with the camera will lead to Y results. It's about learning how your equpiment works under different circumstances and how to adjust when you know the camera's brain won't keep up. If you have the belief that your "skill level will make me a perpetual amateur," then you have already limited your potential. When you start believing you can do something, that's the first step to getting there.

It's not a lack of skill that's hurting your photography, it's your belief that you're skillz are "not good enough..."

Warren
03-26-2007, 02:39 PM
WetRailsWa kinda sums it up. You need to go somewhere where the sun shines!

a231pacific
03-26-2007, 06:57 PM
I'm glad Wet Rails didn't take his ball and go home. Sticking around and getting past the personal hurt over a rejection is the way to learn. It stings at first, but then you find out that failure is actually the first step on the road to improvement.

Regarding my comment that his "Cokato-MN" shot was over-exposed, he responded

Pointed to the east they came out like the tank car pic. It's the best photo out of 4 or 5 that I took at that crossing. I personally don't see overexposure, because it's exactly how the light was that day.

This is where you can learn from having others help you. You don't see overexposure, since you remember the day being gray like that, but look closely at the snow. It's solid white, with no detail. Even on the grayest of days, there are some shadows in the surface irregularities of snow and they will show up, if properly exposed. ALso, look at the tank cars. The car bodies are gray in the photo, not black, as they should be. Finally, look at the sky. There is no detail at all. Even on a gray day, there is some texture that should show up. It's all blown out to white.

Maybe it's because I had an enjoyable day and the shot is a nice reminder...who knows. It's okay if I'm the only one who likes the photo

Bottom line, that's why we all take pictures and if you like the shot, then that's fine. Just accept the fact that the rest of us are basing our judgement just on what we see in the image. We don't have the great memories that go with the photo. That's a lesson we all had to learn.

Michael Allen

JimThias
03-27-2007, 03:04 AM
It would have been fun to have this group at the crossing that day...

"Cokato MN" was a weird one for lighting; everything was white from snow and reflection, but it was late afternoon about 30 minutes before sundown. Pointed to the east they came out like the tank car pic. It's the best photo out of 4 or 5 that I took at that crossing. I personally don't see overexposure, because it's exactly how the light was that day - and typically my Olympus C4040 defaults to a darker picture. I liked the shot then, and still like it now.

I never said it wasn't a good composition, it's simply overexposed. You took a longer exposure to get the motion blur, but that resulted in a blown sky, blown signal pole and blown out snow...all overexposed. A neutral density filter would have come in handy for that shot, allowing you that same shutter speed, but not allowing the bright subjects in the picture to get blown out.

By no means was I trying to sound like I was being critical of your photographic "eye" or your skills, I was simply pointing out that the picture was way overexposed and probably should never have been submitted in the first place due to that fact alone because it was bound to be rejected (trust me, I'm pretty sure the screener's eyes are much more picky than mine).

Maybe it's because I had an enjoyable day and the shot is a nice reminder...who knows. It's okay if I'm the only one who likes the photo. At least I got someone to view it by posting it here :) .

I can completely appreciate that sentiment. :-)

The thing that boggles my mind is that a person can put hours of thought, planning, and editing into a digital photo and still get a response like this quote, which assumes that the shooter picked up a 27-shot disposable and tried to create art.

Again, I didn't entend to make it sound like I was criticizing your photographic skills. I'm sure your knowledge in photography far exceeds mine, as I've only been using a DSLR for over a year. I've always had the "eye" for it, just never took the time to learn and fully understand the way I do now.

Maybe your eyes were tired the day you submitted that shot and it just didn't look overexposed to you...or perhaps your monitor is darker than mine. When I saw the picture the first time, it just screamed "overexposure" from all the blown whites. I get plenty of those myself, and I've learned to be overly critical of things like that, so perhaps my original comments to you WERE too harsh.

I'm sorry if I offended you in any way...that was not my intention.

Mike B.
03-27-2007, 05:33 AM
It's the best photo out of 4 or 5 that I took at that crossing. I personally don't see overexposure, because it's exactly how the light was that day - and typically my Olympus C4040 defaults to a darker picture.

Sounds like you're letting your camera set the exposure, rather than you. I know it may be troublesome to adjust the exposure on the C4040, if it's even possible. But once you start manually adjusting your exposure, you'll become more aware and in turn become a better photographer. If it's at all possible, I highly recommend getting a SLR, digital or not.
That way if a shot is improperly exposed, you won't have the camera to blame, only yourself. After 30 years of shooting, I think you deserve to use a SLR and some better photos.

WetRailsWA
03-27-2007, 06:22 AM
Thank you all, for the honest comments. It's nice to know that photographic experience is a couple clicks away. Instead of just monitoring the forums for feedback on other photos, I'll make sure to enlist this kind of help in the future by posting rejections here. You've sold me.

There's no 'gift' in photography, really. Yes, some people have an eye for composition more so than others, but the basics of photography are pretty much a science. Doing X with the camera will lead to Y results. It's about learning how your equpiment works under different circumstances and how to adjust when you know the camera's brain won't keep up. If you have the belief that your "skill level will make me a perpetual amateur," then you have already limited your potential. When you start believing you can do something, that's the first step to getting there.

It's not a lack of skill that's hurting your photography, it's your belief that you're skillz are "not good enough..."

I truly believe there is a gift involved with photography, just like someone might have the gift of music (my wife) or even gab for that matter (her step-mom). And I believe a lot of you have one. Yes, there is science. Filters, Kodachrome, Ansel Adams and The Zone Method and all that (if I'm influenced by anything camera based, it would be his use of contrast). But in an unusual move, photography also adds the subjective eye to that science. Therefore, I don't believe it's as simple as x leads to y. There's "the feeling" that the shot is right, which is then backed up by the ability of the equipment you carry. I think this is where I fall short; where I see a great shot with my subjective eye, one filled with a nice steam engine and great Northwest fall foliage, a screener sees too dark (http://www.railpixonline.com/SCL_6.htm). Yes, frustrating but not the end of the world. It's akin to the trombone player who loves big-brass jazz and plays well in 2nd chair, but falls flat as a soloist. You've got lead guitarists (Eric Clapton), and you've got rythm guitarists (Bruce Springsteen and Pete Townsend). They're all musicians (darn good ones at that), and each one has a gift for a certain type. I am comfortable as 2nd chair. If I were to claim a photographic gift of some kind, it would be passion for the shot even if I'm only able to back it up with basic skill.

You make a good point; maybe I am limiting myself by saying that I'm not good enough; probably time for me to listen to more coaches. Given the round a commentary here, I will keep trying and make an effort to learn from the people who do have the eye. With time, maybe that basic skill of mine could get a jump start.

Thanks again and enjoy the week.

JRMDC
03-27-2007, 04:02 PM
First of all, great to see that you are taking a positive attitude toward all of this. You will be producing better pictures soon!

I truly believe there is a gift involved with photography, just like someone might have the gift of music (my wife) or even gab for that matter (her step-mom).

There is a gift, I believe, in having a strong vision of composition. Many don't have that gift. As a result, you see many ordinary "wedgie" shots at RP and elsewhere. Just check my hard disk! :)

Nonetheless, wedgies are still pleasant to look at and people who like trains like to see pictures of trains. So they are perfectly fine, no matter how "un-artistic" the composition. But one wants to see them properly exposed and processed. That part of photography is not art and involves no gift, just knowledge properly applied. That, you (and I!) can work on; there is a lot to accomplish in that aspect of photography, and the results are worth it. A few months or years down the road you can compare the shots you have had rejected today with similar shots from the same spot, and you will see your own improvement.

The thing that boggles my mind is that a person can put hours of thought, planning, and editing into a digital photo and still get a response like this quote, which assumes that the shooter picked up a 27-shot disposable and tried to create art.

Maybe belaboring the point, but the reason you got the responses you did is because your stuff did look like you picked up a disposable. :) Perhaps your hours of planning, etc., went to waste because you don't yet have a basic set of technical photography skills. Thankfully, those can be aquired by anyone, no matter their "gifts" or lack thereof.

I look forward to seeing your stuff get better and better and showing up in the database with regularity.

a231pacific
03-27-2007, 04:25 PM
Glad to see you are getting engaged in what these forums are all about...sharing ideas and improving photographic skills.

I agree, there are people with an eye for photography. I know several of them and after watching them closely over the years, I realize that it is a gift. The rest of us can learn to take some pretty darn good pictures, but that next level that makes one an artist may be beyond us. Personally, I don't worry about it.

Sounds like Wet Rails' first step is to figure out why his camera does what it does. Does it spot meter, average meter or center weight? Of his two Cokato shots, one was too dark and one was to light. The dark one may have been reading off the headlights of the locomotives, or off the sky. The too light one was evidently reading off the black tank cars and trying to turn them into 18% gray, which is what light meters do. Learning how to manually set exposures or how to trick the auto into doing what you want is an important first step.

Next, recognize that gray day shots probably aren't going to make it on RP, unless they are extraordinary. We all have dark day shots that we thought were pretty neat, but generally the screeners won't agree. If it's raining, you need light reflecting off rails, reflections in puddles, dramatic fog or clouds, etc. Take a look at the Screener's Choices. There are some shots in there by Kerry Klarr and others that will show you how you can make unusual lighting, or lack thereof, succeed.

Look at the work of others and see if you can figure out what they are doing and how you can learn from them. Since RP has a great search function, figure out who the good shooters are and take some time and scroll through their past work. Here are two samples from one of RP's best young photographers.

[photoid=172929]

[photoid=172838]

I chose them because they have some of the same ideas as your "Cokato-MN" photo, with the use of blur. Do some exploring and I'm sure you will find plenty of shots to learn from or be inspired by.

Good luck.

Michael Allen

JRMDC
03-28-2007, 04:44 AM
Pretty hard to send all-sunny pix, when Seattle is mostly cloudy year-round.

You gave me the idea of revisiting some of my Seattle stuff. I actually got one in today despite the clouds, thanks, maybe, to a bit of fog that rolled onto the top of a tall structure:

[photoid=181288]

PS I actually have now linked this pic into THREE threads! Am I a sick-o or what? :) Not that it matters, NOOBODY is looking at it! Oh well, good thing I shoot for myself first. Hope I get to go back there in sunlight some day (but then it will be fully backlit so it won't be easy, although there are some nearby spots where one can put the sun behind the back).

WetRailsWA
03-30-2007, 06:26 PM
You gave me the idea of revisiting some of my Seattle stuff. I actually got one in today despite the clouds, thanks, maybe, to a bit of fog that rolled onto the top of a tall structure:

[photoid=181288]

Awesome! I think that's a great shot man...congratulations on getting it posted. I know exactly where that is - Elliott and Lee! My son found that spot, mostly by accident, while on our way between the BNSF Interbay yard and Holgate; looked over one day and BLAM..."Look, Daddy...Santa Fe!" There it was, an SD40 overwhelming the building next to it.

This photo was taken at that location as well: http://www.railpixonline.com/bnsf_6805.htm

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8153/02252007002agd7.th.jpg (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02252007002agd7.jpg)

Anyone like to share feedback on this photo?

In Seattle, I think a person must be creative and sneaky a lot of the time to get shots that have soul. It's a place where there's plenty of - what did folks call them - wedgie shots? I'm still finding places to take photos that will stand on their own merits, most of them extremely urban and cramped down around SODO and Georgetown.

As a sideline, it's probably a good time to start documenting the Spirit Of Washington Dinner Train, before its last run on the Eastside in late July `07.

a231pacific
03-30-2007, 09:07 PM
I sort of like and sort of don't like the shot. It's well composed and exposed and I like the train and the scenery, but just don't like the orange air hoses in the foreground. They draw the eye away from the rest of the shot with their bright color. I wonder if Janusz framed his shot the way he did because of those hoses?

RP probably would hit you for being back lit, but I happen to like back lit shots, so I'm not the one to advise you there! ;-)

Michael Allen

WetRailsWA
03-30-2007, 10:25 PM
I sort of like and sort of don't like the shot. It's well composed and exposed and I like the train and the scenery, but just don't like the orange air hoses in the foreground. They draw the eye away from the rest of the shot with their bright color. I wonder if Janusz framed his shot the way he did because of those hoses?

RP probably would hit you for being back lit, but I happen to like back lit shots, so I'm not the one to advise you there! ;-)

Michael Allen

Good point about the air hoses. Darn sun...always on the wrong side of the world, keeping me from getting good shots ;-) Maybe if I stood on my head and turned the camera upside down. Wait, that won't work....

JRMDC
03-30-2007, 10:31 PM
I sort of like and sort of don't like the shot. It's well composed and exposed and I like the train and the scenery, but just don't like the orange air hoses in the foreground. They draw the eye away from the rest of the shot with their bright color. I wonder if Janusz framed his shot the way he did because of those hoses?

RP probably would hit you for being back lit, but I happen to like back lit shots, so I'm not the one to advise you there! ;-)

Michael Allen

Honestly, this was shot a few years ago, I was a bit less creative and less skilled then, and I suspect all I was doing was trying to get the train and the elevator in the frame; I probably would not have noticed the hoses, much less thought about them as an element of the image. :) Today, as a matter of personal preference, I tend to like details like hoses even though they may be detrimental to the image in non-railfan compositional terms. I like capturing the rail infrastructure detail - not that I DO it often, but I LIKE to! :)


As for Wet's image, of course RP is likely to kick it because of the backlighting, but it is very nice for the personal collection; remember not to shoot just for RP but also for yourself. One comment, however, the lead engine is directly overlapping the top of the elevator, detracting from the presense of the latter and creating a bit of lack of separation of elements of the image. And especially since it's such a cool elevator!

Wet, and anyone else, at http://mysite.verizon.net/~jmrozek/ in the left column near the top you can find another image from that visit. Although almost certainly not RP-worthy, I am somewhat fond of it and think of it as an abstract study in lines and gray. Another abstract is attached; if I had not chopped off the truck on the right I would be happier with it.

WetRailsWA
03-31-2007, 12:46 AM
Wet, and anyone else, at http://mysite.verizon.net/~jmrozek/ in the left column near the top you can find another image from that visit.

Ahhh....the Garbage Train. Lot of grey in that photo but cool nonetheless.

a231pacific
03-31-2007, 04:03 AM
Janusz, Is that cool train shed on your website Frankfurt Hbf?

Michael Allen

JRMDC
03-31-2007, 11:15 PM
Janusz, Is that cool train shed on your website Frankfurt Hbf?

Michael Allen

Absolutely! I didn't get many of those shots or others onto RP for various composition reasons, but I had a GREAT time there for 2-3 hours. Although, come to think of it, I never tried to get the no-train people/shed picture in (the second one), nor the evening shot where the trains are not evident in the image but are there (third one).

a231pacific
04-01-2007, 04:20 PM
I'd give it a try. The inside shots are really great!

I think RP should like this one.

Michael Allen

Photo below copyright Janusz Mrozek

WembYard
04-02-2007, 12:50 AM
Janusz, I also like the picture that features in Michael's post. If you havn't already tried it on RP then you should :)

WetRails, I would have stood further to the left (if possible) for the Santa Fe shot and try and get more of a "side" view to show the livery. I would also zoom in a bit and shoot slightly earlier to try and avoid having the building "growing" out of the roof of the loco.

WetRailsWA
04-04-2007, 05:56 PM
WetRails, I would have stood further to the left (if possible) for the Santa Fe shot and try and get more of a "side" view to show the livery. I would also zoom in a bit and shoot slightly earlier to try and avoid having the building "growing" out of the roof of the loco.

Yes, good point. I did take some other shots of that locomotive to show the elongated "snoot" it's nicknamed for. I'll find it and post it here. Not sure how to shoot 'slightly earlier.' Can you clarify?

JRMDC
04-04-2007, 06:31 PM
Janusz, I also like the picture that features in Michael's post. If you havn't already tried it on RP then you should :)

Thanks, you two. I may have given it a go back in the day, don't recall for sure, but I'm a lot better now at cropping and processing and I will give it one more shot, maybe mess with it tonight and submit tomorrow.

WembYard
04-04-2007, 09:36 PM
Not sure how to shoot 'slightly earlier.' Can you clarify?
I was assuming that the train was moving towards you, but perhaps was it stationary? If it was, then there is not a lot you can do with it's postition in relation to the building except walk around and try different angles.

WetRailsWA
04-05-2007, 06:14 AM
...I did take some other shots of that locomotive to show the elongated "snoot" it's nicknamed for.

Same loco, different angle. I think the buildings in this one are far less interesting than the other angle. Story of my life...what I needed was THIS profile with the grain elevator behind it!

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4041/02252007010adb7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Does anyone know the reason behind the extra hood length on the "Snoots?"

WetRailsWA
04-05-2007, 06:26 AM
As for Wet's image, of course RP is likely to kick it because of the backlighting, but it is very nice for the personal collection; remember not to shoot just for RP but also for yourself. One comment, however, the lead engine is directly overlapping the top of the elevator, detracting from the presense of the latter and creating a bit of lack of separation of elements of the image. And especially since it's such a cool elevator!

Maybe something like this would have separated the loco from the elevator more?

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8255/02252007006py2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Though dramatic in its contrast, I would imagine this one is too dark for submission. It's hard for my camera to translate the drama of the Seattle clouds I think. Would it be worth it for me to pull out the Canon AE1 and load it up with color slide film to shoot through some kind of contrast filter?

Mike B.
04-05-2007, 06:28 AM
Come out from the dark side, it's no good for you.

WetRailsWA
04-05-2007, 06:38 AM
Come out from the dark side, it's no good for you.

No doubt!

As a sideline, my 5-year old took this photo during our visit using my old Sony Mavica 1.3Megapixel; it uses floppy disks and is bulletproof!

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8445/mvc006sfp6.jpg

Not bad, for a kid who hasn't even gotten to Kindergarten yet! I'm so proud of him.

JRMDC
04-05-2007, 11:06 PM
As a sideline, my 5-year old took this photo during our visit using my old Sony Mavica 1.3Megapixel; it uses floppy disks and is bulletproof!

That's it, the gloves are off! I am getting my 4-year old a camera this weekend! :) Seriously, nice shot by the tyke. BTW, on that topic, check out this, which I have been thinking about getting:
http://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Price-Kid-Tough-Digital-Camera/dp/B000EULZPU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3923692-9630445?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1175806724&sr=8-1

JRMDC
04-05-2007, 11:07 PM
Michael and Janet, thanks so much for the suggestion to revisit this one:

[photoid=182536]