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Will
04-12-2007, 05:18 AM
Like everyone else I need some advice on some rejections :D

First off:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo1.jpg
Was originally rejected for not being level with the horizon which I fixed, now being rejected for bad lighting.

Also:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3067.JPG
Rejected for bad crop, I tried:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo2.jpg
Rejected for bad crop again.

Also any point even trying to submit this one:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3112.JPG
I would crop it before submission but wanted comments on the original.

Will

Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
04-12-2007, 01:49 PM
Like everyone else I need some advice on some rejections :D

First off:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo1.jpg
Was originally rejected for not being level with the horizon which I fixed, now being rejected for bad lighting.

Also:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3067.JPG
Rejected for bad crop, I tried:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo2.jpg
Rejected for bad crop again.

Also any point even trying to submit this one:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3112.JPG
I would crop it before submission but wanted comments on the original.

Will
Will,

I actually really like the first shot, but that fence on the lower left doesn't do anything for me. It is still unlevel by looking at the open door on the first car so I would concentrate on that.

I don't understand why the rework of the second was rejected. The crop right to the top of the trees is fine.

I wouldn't bother with the third one. ;-)

JRMDC
04-12-2007, 03:01 PM
Like everyone else I need some advice on some rejections :D

First off:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo1.jpg
Was originally rejected for not being level with the horizon which I fixed, now being rejected for bad lighting.

It's a nice picture overall, but the nose looks just terrible, it is so blown out. If you can't take care of this through some serious processing, then I think it never gets in. The blue thing in the lower right corner does not help, and the fence isn't great but I don't feel as strongly about that as Andrew does. But the primary issue is not those, or the rotation, it's the blown out nose.

Also:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3067.JPG
Rejected for bad crop, I tried:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo2.jpg
Rejected for bad crop again.

In my opinion, the image just isn't that interesting. You did crop out some empty space, but there is more. Lots of uninteresting space upper left, right side. One suggestion, before you abandon, is to try a vertical, as I have attached. Notice how all the essential elements of the shot - train, detail on train roof, signal, white-capped mountains in background, trackside "thingie" on right edge, are still there, despite having cut out maybe 2/3s of the original.

Note that I personally would still not accept it, most of the image is in the dark, but tastes differ, as I have repeatedly found out over the years! :) See what you think, and maybe see what RP thinks.

Third shot, forget about it. The subject is quite dark and backlit, and the image has nothing else of merit - it's just a portion of an engine and some trees and snow. I'm not intending to be harsh for fun, I am trying to be constructive in giving reasons. It's a quick snapshot with bad light, and images at RP are held to a higher standard. Take a look around the database and get a sense of the level of quality here. (Your first shot is pretty good in that respect - too bad about the nose.) You are new to the forum and I hope you will quickly realize that this is a great place to learn how to greatly improve the quality of your pictures. Welcome!

WetRailsWA
04-12-2007, 05:25 PM
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3112.JPG


Will - I partially agree with JRMDC's assessment of "third shot." Probably not a RailPictures.net shot, but...I like it anyway, and think it's a good personal pic with some moodiness.

I think the image should be tilted so the vertical lines on the side of the locomotive match the right photo border. Give it some more contrast and brighten it a bit. Sort of like the attachment I added to this post.

Keep it up, man. We'll all get better together.

Will
04-12-2007, 06:18 PM
Thanks for the comments, I don't think I'll try to (re)submit any of these images anyways, I personally wouldn't know how to fix up that nose in the first picture with photo editing software.

For the second picture, the crop was a bit to tight for my liking but thanks for the effort.

Third picture I was in a rush to take, crew let us off in the middle of no where between Prince George and Prince Rupert since the engineers were stopped waiting for manual dispatch over the radio so didn't have to much time to take the picture besides it being made up of trees, snow and trains.

a231pacific
04-12-2007, 08:18 PM
Will,

If you shot the picture as a jpeg, my guess is the blown out highlights are just that, blown out, but if you have a camera that shoots in RAW, there may be salvageable detail in the highlights.

I noticed that Andrew didn't like the fence in the first shot and I agree with him, but possibly for a different reason. There isn't enough of it there to be anything other than a distraction. If you took the photo wider, and this was a crop, you might do better to include a bit more of the fence and also more of the blue work sign. As it is, the sign just sort of sits in the corner of the frame with no context.

I feel that many railfan photographers often crop too tightly, focusing entirely on the train. Sometimes this is good, sometimes not so good. I think your shot would have benefited from more space around the train. If you can't cut the fence out entirely, leave more of it in, as an element in the photo.

Michael Allen

John West
04-12-2007, 09:38 PM
Can't really add much to what others have said, except to tell you I really like the first shot (great lighting) and the second shot is pretty good as well. The problem with the first shot is the cropping and mitigating the blown out color on part of the nose. But without knowing what the original looked like, can't really suggest how to fix the crop. I'm surprised the second got rejected. It's a nice view, and I like the wide crop better than the train-centric close crop except maybe for cutting out some of the dark tree area on the left.

John West

Will
04-13-2007, 04:05 AM
The original is at http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3211.JPG my camera just takes JPEG so unfortunately no RAW picture to play with.

As for the crop idea, I came up with http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo3.jpg which I like better than the vertical crop.

John West
04-13-2007, 04:54 AM
Here is a quick and dirty from me. I would have liked a broader view with more of the station and surroundings, this is a pretty tight train-centric view but is the best I could fit in. I also used the shadow/highlight tool to try to dull the glare a bit but it is still a bit bright. It is an interesting train, the mountains are wonderful, and I like the lighting (except for the glare).

John West

a231pacific
04-14-2007, 04:16 AM
I think John's crop could get in. The glare isn't too bad and the removing the blue sigh helped. Like John, I'd have liked more of the station area shown on the left side, but in looking at the original, it just isn't there. Still, I agree with John, interesting train, interesting lighting and great scenery. Give it another go.

Michael Allen

Will
04-14-2007, 06:00 PM
Thanks I like your editing on it John, as suggested I may try and resubmit that one do you have a bigger copy of that crop as it doesn't have the size for railpictures / is it ok if I submit your crop?

Will

John West
04-14-2007, 06:10 PM
Please do. But you might try fiddling with it a bit more, I was called for dinner in the middle of working on it and had to hurry. I think the crop can be improved (try cropping just a bit more off the right). And see if you can dull the glare on the nose just a bit more, but watch out for the kind of weird stuff that happpens when you push PS too far. The picture has grown on me, I love the lighting, and will be disapppointed if it is not accepted.

John

Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
04-14-2007, 06:56 PM
The picture has grown on me, I love the lighting, and will be disapppointed if it is not accepted.

John
Same here ;)

Will
04-15-2007, 10:55 PM
I'm no expert at photoshop, this is the best I could come up with:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo4.jpg

I did about 30% in the shadow/highlight tool, and cropped it a bit tighter. Still a bit bright on the nose but better, any other suggestions for editing it? Should I try to submit as is?

Thanks for all the help :)

John West
04-15-2007, 11:05 PM
Pretty, good. Now let me split some hairs.

You might have cropped a bit too close to the nose, it is starting to look crowded to me on the right side. Way in the background of the original is the top of a telephone pole. I would crop it just to the right edge of the cross arms (so the pole shows). In my version you can see that I left just a bit of space between the crossarms and the edge....and that was just enough to be too much space. We're splitting hairs here but the tightness of this version might be just enough to cause a screener to reject it for bad crop.

Make sure you leave as much space at the bottom of the original allows. The original was a tight crop and with the exception of the dead space on the right, you want to take advantage of all the rest of the room you have.

The right side of the nose still looks blown out. I assume you have done as much as you know how to do to mitigate that. If you have a highlight/showdows tool in your version of PS, try that. It will automatically lighten the shadows by 50 percent....set the shadows back to zero. The use the darken highlights tool to see how much you can darken the blown out yellow until it starts to look funny. Then backoff a bit.

Your're pretty close but I really like the picture an want to give it every chance of being accepted.

John

Will
04-16-2007, 12:07 AM
Did you do the entire nose in the shadow/highlight tool or did you split it in half and do more adjustments on the right side? If so what tool did you use to select the regions? In the next version I'll fix up the crop. Going to take a bit more detailed look at it tommarow and see what I can come up with.

John West
04-16-2007, 12:23 AM
After my last post I went back to Photoshop and played around with the nose. I tried to use, I think it's called the magic wand tool, to select just the bright part of play with, but even after adjusting the sensitivity I couldn't get a select that I was satisfied with. My one attempt to do it that way ended up with a strange looking nose. So I simply applied the shadow/highlight tool to the whole picture (again zeroing out the auto 50 percent lightening of the shadows) and just played with the darken highlights slider. What happens of course is the darker side of the nose also darkens, and after awhile that starts to look too dark. And even at maximum darkening the bright side still looks blown out. Even though the whole picture was selected, the changes seemed to affect only the nose, since the rest of the picture is pretty much mid-tone. So the best I can suggest is to use the shadow/highlight tool to darken the bright side just a bit, to at least mitigate the brightness. That's what I did on the version I posted. I think the result is okay, and still gives you a great picture. Whether the screeners will agree I don't know. I might add, there are some folks here who are at lot better with PS then I am, and perhaps they can improve on the above suggestions.

John

a231pacific
04-16-2007, 12:34 AM
Where's Christine? Haven't heard from her in a bit. She would know what to do! ;-)

Michael Allen

John West
04-16-2007, 01:03 AM
Yeah, Christine is exactly who I was thinking of. Or Alan.

John

Will
04-16-2007, 02:17 AM
In the last copy I posted I actually just adjusted the colors of the nose, not the whole picture I used the rectangular select to get all of the nose and unfortunately a bit of the surrounding area and adjusted it like that. I'll see if I'm able to select just the bright part of the nose, and hopefully not make it look awkward.

JRMDC
04-16-2007, 02:24 AM
I was feeling very Christine-ish tonight! What i did was to select the blown out area with the lasso tool, go to brightness/contrast and reduce the brightness and up the contrast (a bit on the latter), up the saturation to put back some of the yellow the previous step took away, reduce highlights some more, do another brightness/contrast adjustment, and (importantly, as it turns out), apply a warming filter at a strong 50%. The last step recovers from the really ugly color that comes out of the shadows/highlights and brightness/contrast tools.

What is left is some splotchyness on the nose with spots of whiter areas. So I think about how to merge areas that are different, and I go to noise reduction, at the maximum, with 100% reduction of color noise. I then lighten (!) with brightness, increase saturation again to bring the yellow back again, reduce brightness (could probably have saved a step here somewhere! :) ), and go with it.

Notice that the VIA and Canada decals are gone - they were gone in the original as the sun reflected strongly off them and turned them white despite the underlying black. Not sure what to do about those, except MORE time in software!

Anyway, there it is, for all to ponder and peruse!

JRMDC
04-16-2007, 02:28 AM
BTW, I find excessive noise reduction leads to interesting watercolor-like effects, fun to mess around with:

Will
04-16-2007, 03:10 AM
Thanks for all the help, this is what I managed to come up with which is similar to JRMDC. The numbering is a bit clearer in mine, I used the magnetic lasso to try and adjust some areas a bit more than others.

http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo6.jpg

Switched out
04-16-2007, 03:35 AM
Where's Christine? Haven't heard from her in a bit. She would know what to do! :wink:

Michael AllenSorry Guys, been wasting my time thinking up funny one liners for the Dead space thread :-P

Apart from the basics and adding a little more contrast I used one of my favourite plugins for photoshop "Velvia Vision" from Fred Miranda (http://www.fredmiranda.com/). It has an option for adding more dynamic range to the image as well has a few other tricks. By adding some dynamic range it as put some life into the dark area along the side of the train. You could do this by fiddling with the curves tool but it takes to long. As for the nose treatment I toned it down a little by shifting it's colour to match the side of the loco a little more and then knocking the saturation back a little.

Cheers,

Christine.

JRMDC
04-16-2007, 03:49 AM
Honestly, Christine, I love your stuff, but in this instance I prefer Will's effort. For my tastes, yours puts too much light on the side - it was in shadow before, and to considerable extent I believe that in shadow it should remain. And it jazzes up too much around the train also (can one run the plug in on a selected area?). I like the mountains darker.

BTW Will, haven't said it yet, but I love how the back end of the train picks up some sort of secondary light source for the glint. Is that a reflection off another train?

J

PS Yes, in my original post, I gave up on this one too soon! :( Whether it gets in or not.

a231pacific
04-16-2007, 04:25 AM
Sorry, Firefox crashed and posted twice.

a231pacific
04-16-2007, 04:34 AM
And the winner is....John West, by a nose, followed by Christine and Janusz.

John's had the least amount of processing on the nose and it still looks natural. Christine's looks just a bit too uniform and flat on the right side, otherwise, quite good. Janusz went too heavy on the dodge tool and you can see the brown blotches it produced, plus the windshield and number boards just don't look right.

John's had the nicest clouds, but all were excellent and all did well with the side of the train. The reflection off the depot windows (just guessing) on the right side of the train really make this shot special.

Will, try to get it as much like John did and you have a winner. If you don't have CS2 and the highlight/shadow tool, does anyone have a trick to produce the same effect? Local area contrast enhancement works like shadow recovery, but we want the opposite effect of highlight recovery. Any ideas?

Michael Allen

JRMDC
04-16-2007, 01:48 PM
And the winner is....John West, by a nose, followed by Christine and Janusz.

I've got no problem coming in last in this particular competition. :)

Janusz went too heavy on the dodge tool and you can see the brown blotches it produced, plus the windshield and number boards just don't look right.

In the spirit of learning, and for the record, I did not use a dodge tool. (You can read what I did, step by step, in my earlier post.) I completely agree on the windshield and number boards, but I don't see any brown blotches. Well, actually, there are some on the dark side of the nose, but I didn't tamper with that side at all and I see those in the other efforts. What are you referring to?

Will
04-16-2007, 07:52 PM
Thanks for all the help again, even if its not accepted least I learned more about photo processing :D

Anyways I'm using CS3 for Mac atm, so I have been using the shadow/highlight tool. As I said before I used the magnetic lasso to try to adjust only the brighter spots but leave the background alone, all in all it looks pretty similar to John's version. Is there anything particular in the latest version I posted I should be concerned about? I played around with the nose its self a bit more but couldn't really come up with anything satisfactory.

If anyones bored, the full set of photos from the trip (all 3 were from a trip at Christmas) are at http://railfan.homeunix.com/linpha/

As for the light at the back, I believe that would have to be off the sun reflecting on a snow bank as I can't recall any trains coming up behind when I took the photo.

John West
04-16-2007, 10:31 PM
Just remember all this free advice is worth every penny you paid for it. :grin:

Will
04-17-2007, 10:35 PM
Well for an update I tried submitting the version I posted ( http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo6.jpg ) and got a new rejection reason:

Reason(s) for Rejection:
- Undersharpened (Soft):

Any opinions? to my eye doesn't seem overly soft

John West
04-17-2007, 11:13 PM
Option one is to see if you can sharpen it more. The nose of the engine looks sharp to me, but if the screener says its soft, well, maybe he sees something we don't. You can give it a shot, see how it looks to you, and resubmit with a note that you have sharpened up as much you can before the funny stuff sets in.

Option to two is to give up. Maybe the message here is the screeners just don't like the picture. I like it because of the lighting. I really like the lighting. But me and the screeners don't always see eye to eye on "interesting" lighting. The lighting is definitely non-traditional. The picture IS "crop challenged", in the sense that it is a bit tighter than ideal on the left and bottom (hopefully you have used every available pixel in those areas!). And there is the blownout nose issue.

If truly the issue is sharpness with the screener, I'd see if you can improve on it, resubmit, and see what happens. But one more reject and I'd count that as a good picture for your personal collection. We all have our personal collections. Like the reject I use as an avatar above.

John

JRMDC
04-18-2007, 12:55 AM
But one more reject and I'd count that as a good picture for your personal collection. We all have our personal collections. Like the reject I use as an avatar above.

John

You must be really bitter about that rejection; I think you've mentioned it before!!!! :grin: :lol: :-) :twisted:

John West
04-18-2007, 04:39 AM
I'm bitter about ALL my rejections. But after awhile I get over it. Actually, now that I think about it, the worst part is having to remodel the house to have enough wall space to hang prints of all the rejected pictures.

John

JRMDC
04-18-2007, 11:51 AM
I'm bitter about ALL my rejections. But after awhile I get over it. Actually, now that I think about it, the worst part is having to remodel the house to have enough wall space to hang prints of all the rejected pictures.

John

ROTFL!

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