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Bob Pickering
01-28-2004, 06:16 PM
Hello all

This is a dumb question as I have don RR photography for over 20 years but I am looking for outside help

What causes the grain to appear in a scan of a 35 MM photo? Is it the way it is developed?

I shoot 100 speed kodak and fugi film.

I have noticed this with the a blue sky with clouds mostly.

Any ideas will be appreciated and thank you!

Curtis Wininger
01-29-2004, 03:32 AM
If you notice it in one color more than the other, maybe it has something to do with your scanner. It might not scan certain colors very well. You may be able to fix some of the problem by saving the file at a higher quality setting.

Just a thought.

tomh
01-29-2004, 04:29 PM
Bob,

The actual physical grain size is determined by the manufacturer's specifications for a particular film. Genrally slower film=smaller grain, faster film= larger grain. I think that most color negative development is done with the C-41 process these days, and so I doubt if the grain presence, or "noticeability" is much different from one lab to another with a given film. The density of the negative in the area of the sky has a lot to do with why this is the location where the grain is most noticeable. Clouds are also the area where color saturation is low, and this also has an impact.

B&W is another story. You can have great variation in grain noticeability from one lab to another. There are many different B&W developer chemistries available, and these also cause a great variation in grain characteristics in a developed negative.

When viewed at 1024 wide on a screen some grain can normally be seen in the sky with the ISO 100 print films I have used. If I feel it is objectionable, which sometimes happens when I crop an image, then there are two things I can do to minimise it. I only do one or the other, not both:

1. Mask out the sky when sharpening or unsharpening. This will prevent those functions from accentuating the grain structure.

2. Carefully apply a little blur to the sky after sharpening or unsharpening. You will need to experiment to find which type of blur and what amount of blur works best.


Hope this helps.

Tomh

Bob Pickering
01-29-2004, 08:40 PM
Thanks...the link is to the photo in question, rejected for too much grain which I kinda thought it would be. I try to use the rejections to learn how to take better photos and such


http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=29857

Thanks for the ideas...as you can see the sky appears to be the worst. The nose of the motor and the vegitation seeems fine.

I may try blurring the sky

Thanks!

Bob

Chris Kilroy
01-31-2004, 12:49 AM
A really neat program has come along in the past couple of weeks, called "Neat Image." It supposedly does a helluva job removing grain, while maintaining detail in photos.

I've seen some photos out of an Olympus C730 (by default, a fairly grainy image) after being hit with this program, and the results are outstanding.

I'd recommend checking it out!

http://www.neatimage.com/

Save The Wave
01-31-2004, 02:03 AM
Chris, thanks for the link. That really works great!!

A really neat program has come along in the past couple of weeks, called "Neat Image." It supposedly does a helluva job removing grain, while maintaining detail in photos.

I've seen some photos out of an Olympus C730 (by default, a fairly grainy image) after being hit with this program, and the results are outstanding.

I'd recommend checking it out!

http://www.neatimage.com/