Transferring film-8mm, super 8mm, and 16mm movies

[amtrakboy]

Hi guys!!

I wanted to introduce a subject so far not mentioned here in this forum--transferring movie film. I have a large collection of old 8mm, super 8mm, and 16mm railroad footage I shot, going all the way back to 1960. Among the films I have are footage of such subjects as the last runs of the MK & T "Texas Special" and "Katy Flyer" passenger trains through Oklahoma, as well as the Santa Fe "Tulsan" making its last run on the eve of takeover of Santa Fe passenger service by Amtrak(April 30, 1971). Also included is a bit of steam action by C & NW #1385 crossing Iowa in 1982, footage of miscellaneous Santa Fe passenger and freight action across Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona, various shortline operations across Oklahoma, etc.--"and the list goes 'on and on.'" All the films are silent, but I can add narration to describe the action. Can anyone give suggestions as to how I can transfer/digitize this footage to mpeg computer files or DVD video? I understand that film tends to deteriorate as it ages and I don't want to lose these "gems!!" All suggestions/ideas/input much welcomed!!! :wink:

[Wizzo]

Hi guys!!

I wanted to introduce a subject so far not mentioned here in this forum--transferring movie film. I have a large collection of old 8mm, super 8mm, and 16mm railroad footage I shot, going all the way back to 1960. Among the films I have are footage of such subjects as the last runs of the MK & T "Texas Special" and "Katy Flyer" passenger trains through Oklahoma, as well as the Santa Fe "Tulsan" making its last run on the eve of takeover of Santa Fe passenger service by Amtrak(April 30, 1971). Also included is a bit of steam action by C & NW #1385 crossing Iowa in 1982, footage of miscellaneous Santa Fe passenger and freight action across Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona, various shortline operations across Oklahoma, etc.--"and the list goes 'on and on.'" All the films are silent, but I can add narration to describe the action. Can anyone give suggestions as to how I can transfer/digitize this footage to mpeg computer files or DVD video? I understand that film tends to deteriorate as it ages and I don't want to lose these "gems!!" All suggestions/ideas/input much welcomed!!! :wink:

I have a TV card in my PC which has an analog input so I can hook up a VHS video recorder and digitise video tape, however, digitising cine film is more specialist and I would guess that the equipment isn't cheap.

Have you tried looking for a firm that will do it for you ? If you want to edit further, add your own commentary I'm sure they could leave it in MPEG format so you can feed it into your favourite editing suite and produce the DVD for yourself.

[amtrakboy]

Wizzo,
There are several places I know of that will transfer film. However, I still have my old movie projectors--hence the reason I thought it might be possible to do it myself. Anyhow, I will check into these firms and see what they can do. I especially want my "final product" to be flicker-free and color-corrected. In my computer, I can work with mpeg, avi, windows media, and a variety of other video file formats. I have several thousand feet of film that I will want transferred.

[Alco251]

Do NOT try this at home.

There are any number of "transfer houses" in places like Los Angeles and NY that can transfer the footage in a liquid-gate process, eliminating all scratches and electronically reducing flicker--that's especially important in 8mm and Super8 applications.

If this is really good stuff (shot off tripod with minimal panning and zooming), may I suggest you contact any of the railfan video producers who package and sell such material? Possibly you could license the footage to them and essentially get your transfer done at no charge to you.

[amtrakboy]

Most of my footage I did shoot with a tripod, except for some pacing footage of steam action and other footage shot while aboard various trains.

[JhnZ33]

Hi guys!!

I wanted to introduce a subject so far not mentioned here in this forum--transferring movie film. I have a large collection of old 8mm, super 8mm, and 16mm railroad footage I shot, going all the way back to 1960. Among the films I have are footage of such subjects as the last runs of the MK & T "Texas Special" and "Katy Flyer" passenger trains through Oklahoma, as well as the Santa Fe "Tulsan" making its last run on the eve of takeover of Santa Fe passenger service by Amtrak(April 30, 1971). Also included is a bit of steam action by C & NW #1385 crossing Iowa in 1982, footage of miscellaneous Santa Fe passenger and freight action across Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona, various shortline operations across Oklahoma, etc.--"and the list goes 'on and on.'" All the films are silent, but I can add narration to describe the action. Can anyone give suggestions as to how I can transfer/digitize this footage to mpeg computer files or DVD video? I understand that film tends to deteriorate as it ages and I don't want to lose these "gems!!" All suggestions/ideas/input much welcomed!!! :wink:

As the saying goes, "there are many different ways to skin a cat". By that, I mean you can do it yourself in few different methods or have it done by someone who already has all the equipment and experience on how to get a quality image from the transfer. Obviously, there are advantages and disadvantages to any choice.

If you decide to take the "DIY" route, you'll need to find a working projector, of which none have been made in many years. You'll also need to worry about running an irreplaceable historic film through a machine which can shread film if you have a bad splice or if the projector has a mechanical failure.

Once you have a machine you feel comfortable with, the next issue you'll need to tackle is the frame rate difference between film and video. Typical silent 8mm and Super 8mm film was shot between 16 and 18 frames per second, while video is 30 frames per second (actually 29.97). This mis-match in frame rate causes visible flicker in the resulting video. Normally, to eliminate this flicker, a variable speed projector is used to "speed up" the frame rate of the projector to 20 frames per second. Since 20 is evenly divisible into 60 (2x video rate), flicker is eliminated, but sometimes the resulting capture can look a little too fast like the old movie keystone cops. Since very few projectors had regulated motor speed, you'd need to constantly compensate for the drift in speed or flicker would return.

If you're not planning on doing anything more than the films you currently have, the investment into getting all the necessary equipment together to tackle this as a DIY project may end up close to what it would cost to have someone do it. Most respectable transfer establishments digitize directly from the film surface frame by frame, for a flicker free best possible image. Also, most will color and exposure correct for imperfections in the film, making the resulting video file sometimes actually better than the original film.

There are many transfer houses that will digitize your footage directly to a hard drive or Mini-DV tape so that you may import, edit and assemble the footage in your favorite video editing program.

John
JP MEDIA

[JhnZ33]

I have a TV card in my PC which has an analog input so I can hook up a VHS video recorder and digitise video tape, however, digitising cine film is more specialist and I would guess that the equipment isn't cheap.

As with anything unfamiliar, at first there is a learning curve to extract the best possible image out of film. There are many DIY film transfer options readily available on the market from basic to advanced. Moviestuff products are probably the best "affordable" option. Good equipment usually isn't "cheap", in any profession.

Have you tried looking for a firm that will do it for you ? If you want to edit further, add your own commentary I'm sure they could leave it in MPEG format so you can feed it into your favourite editing suite and produce the DVD for yourself.

Many, if not most established transfer firms, can provide AVI files via hard drive or some form of digital tape. MPEG is not an ideal source to edit as it is a compressed format meant for delivery to DVD. MPEG has very little discreet frames as succeeding frames are built off of neighboring marker or flag frames to make the file size small. In editing MPEG, the computer must constantly rebuild frames where the file is cut or changed as you work with it. This increases the workload on the computer. AVI, although takes up more storage space, is frame discreet and is less CPU intensive while editing. AVI files also yield a better image in the final product.

John
JP MEDIA