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View Full Version : Clarification??


VRE Man
10-01-2004, 07:11 AM
I'd like to get some clarification on my appeal it seems someone made a typo in some way either for or against the photo but I also don't get the comment of well you could go here anyday & shoot this anyday so....


Here is the info from the email:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your appeal for photo id 53584 has been processed and has been
rejected.
Admin Comments >> Its not common? Can\'t you go here and shoot it
everyday? If the answer is yes, it is not common power.
>> http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=53584
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'mm sorry but this appeal reply seems bogus? Can't you go anywhere and shoot just about anything on anyday? I'm not trying to argue I just questioning the motives behind it? It seems kinda odd to classify this shot common power since VRE only has a select few units & only travel a small area compared to say Amtrak, NS or CSX ETC.

After doing some basic research through the database of 68.000 photos there are the following results:

65 Photos of Virginia Railway Express

Of the Engine I shot VRE V10 there are 3 total photos in the database of this unit, 2 in Manassas (Shot by myself) & another in the Clifton/Burke area. There are none on V10 in the Fredericksburg area.

VRE has 10 RP39-2C units for which account for 23 Photos in the database.

Of the 11 other units that VRE Owns including V20, V21, V22, V23, V24, V30, V31, V32, V33, V40 & V41 account for 40 of the other 42 Photos with 2 shots for Cab Cars. V40 & V41 are no longer in Service at the moment.

I have the most VRE shots in the Database of course thats why I use VRE Man as they are my favorite RR to photograph. BTW V10 is usually a Manassa Line engine and is rarely caught on the RF&P side of the system.

In Closing I wish to again point out I am not trying to argue this but I am trying to point out that it is not common power & it is not a common location as to get to this location requires a 4 wheel drive Vehicle.

One other poin tI'd like to make with the database 9 photos from 69,000 photos total, VRE Shots still make up less then 1% of the total database. I'd call that hardly common at all.

Thanks for Reading,

Jason Breakiron
VRE Man

RobR
10-01-2004, 02:19 PM
Jason,

I said this on another forum, but I'll mention it here too for those who didn't see that there.

It might have been a cloudless day, but the photograph doesn't look like it. It looks cloudy. The sky is dead white and there isn't a single clearly defined shadow.

You may have needed a 4-wheel-drive vehicle to get there, but it doesn't look like it. It just looks like any of thousands of other places where a train runs through a field with trees behind it and a bridge in the background.

It is a striking-looking train, and I share your curiousity about the "common engine" comment. There's plenty of shots that are composed identically to yours and show much more common power that get posted here.

Rob Richardson

E.M. Bell
10-01-2004, 05:05 PM
While you cant expect us to all to know what engines VRE runs where and when, I can understand about the engine not running that often on that district. As the above post said, even though it may have been a sunny day, there is very little contrast in the sky..its to the point of being washed out. perhaps a tad bit of tweaking with the levels could bring back some color to it...

And yes, the VRE does have about the best paint schemes for locos and cars that I have seen on a commuter RR (chicago metra is a close second)....very fitting for out nations capital ....

Silagi
10-01-2004, 06:18 PM
I dont think much could be done for bringing color back to that sky, but a few adjustments to the levels can bring a little bit more life to the rest of the photo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v380/silagi/VREafter.jpg

Chris Starnes
10-01-2004, 07:12 PM
I think the rejection and subsequent appeal might have been a little misleading....more than anything we are suggesting that you save this location/subject for a nice sunny, blue sky kind of day to go there and get a *good* shot. There is nothing horribly wrong with the photo but it could be made alot better under better conditions...and given the fact that this is such a common movement for the location, we don't see that as asking too much. You might not agree or think we are being pricks about it but in the end it will make you a better photographer.

VRE Man
10-03-2004, 06:19 PM
Chris that would be fine & not a problem but you guys did accept a shot that was taken a whole 3 minutes before this one of the VRE was. Funny thing is Chris I just sumbitted 16 photos, some evening, some daylight with bright sun & you guys rejected them. What is going on? I sumbitted some great shots that are comparable if not better then some of the ones you guys have accepted latelyy & such as the VRE F59PHI shot forst it was rejected as being backlit even though the sun was in front of the unit.

Then when I appeal to expalin that I get a rejection:

Your appeal for photo id 53993 has been processed and has been
rejected.
Admin Comments >> Not sure about the rejection reason but ideally we
would like to see the photo show something more than just streaks of
light - maybe a signal, crossing buck, etc. Thanks
>> http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=53993


Streaks of light, umm do you see a train here, I certainly do.

Now a Couple of the rejections I could understand but 16 straight?


JB

Lord Vader
10-03-2004, 07:19 PM
I rejected a lot of those this morning. Quite frankly, the material was poor and after reviewing the rejections again, I stand by my decisions.

E.M. Bell
10-03-2004, 07:32 PM
you cant understand why all of those where rejected..your kidding....right??? you HAVE to be kidding!!! half a locomotive hidden behind a tree, several shots that are backlit, no side lite, no nose lite, no light at all....a few that are very soft (undersharpened) to the point that its hard to even make out the railroad name on the side of the engine.....shall I go on?? I didnt screen any of those, but I would have rejected all myself, and will stand by the screeners that did.

I have seen your work and what you can do by the shots you have in the DB already, and the stuff that was rejected does NOT represent that at all..

Chris Starnes
10-03-2004, 09:07 PM
The streak of light rejection note was sent to another photographer who appealed another night shot close to the time you appealed yours, I am not sure why you got that rejection appeal. Regardless of that, I would stick by the original rejection.

Ween
10-03-2004, 09:20 PM
Funny thing is Chris I just sumbitted 16 photos, some evening, some daylight with bright sun & you guys rejected them. What is going on?...Now a Couple of the rejections I could understand but 16 straight?

Just a bit of advice: publically criticising the screeners doesn't help your cause...

VRE Man
10-03-2004, 09:34 PM
you cant understand why all of those where rejected..your kidding....right??? you HAVE to be kidding!!! half a locomotive hidden behind a tree, several shots that are backlit, no side lite, no nose lite, no light at all....a few that are very soft (undersharpened) to the point that its hard to even make out the railroad name on the side of the engine.....shall I go on?? I didnt screen any of those, but I would have rejected all myself, and will stand by the screeners that did.

I have seen your work and what you can do by the shots you have in the DB already, and the stuff that was rejected does NOT represent that at all..


Thank you for the comments Mr. Bell but 2 shots both the csx & Amtrak I can see the backlit please explain the others?


Jason

JButler
10-04-2004, 01:29 AM
Basically we, those who submit photos, have to accept that this is a privately owned and run web sight. Even though submissions are made by invitation, the tastes and whims of the owners/screeners will always prevail. With this in mind, if you want photos in this database, just keep plugging and find that formula that seems to be preferred here, blue skies, sun to your back and, if you can find it, something besides a GE wide cab.
I get a chuckle occasionally when I have a photo rejected for poor lighting, when I know the photo is correctly exposed. If I submit an appeal I usually get a short reply stating that “yeah it is an okay shot, but not what we are looking for.” Translation to my mind, “I didn’t like it.” For the most part, I stand by my shooting. No, I am not a pro and I don’t think I am better than anyone, I’m probably not as good as most, but I have had a little training and occasionally it runs contrary to some of the points made by screeners.
A reoccurring theme from some of the screeners is “shooting to get photos accepted at RP.net will make you a better photographer.” In actuality, getting accepted here just means you are shooting what the screeners like. Adjusting tastes or artistic sights to match someone else is not necessarily making you better, it just makes you a conformer.
On the other hand, I have submitted photos that had the edge of the image cut off (bad cropping) and the screeners caught it and rejected it. I kick myself for missing something so obvious, correct the image and re-submit it, usually to be accepted. Catching a technical bumble is providing a service to submitters. I have also had at least two rejections overturned. So I know that screeners are reading the appeals and giving them some consideration.
I think my only real gripe with the site/screeners is lack of a “we just don’t like or want this shot” rejection reason. The fact that a photo may be technically dead on, but artistically 180 degrees off what is wanted is something that needs to be taken into account, and maybe explained in the rejection process. A properly exposed, framed and well-lighted photo of a train in the rain may not be what RP.net is looking for, but it is NOT a bad photo. I would hate to think folks are not shooting on overcast days because RP.net routinely rejects photos taken on cloudy days. Trains run in all weather and 24 hours a day. I would think that this would be reflected in the database.
To his credit, Chris Starnes has openly stated what he is looking for in a photo. I also note that there are numerous exceptions to the sunny day rule in the database. If a photo is neat, different or rare then it gets a deserved pass. But the overwhelming preference is for blue skies and the sun to your back. It paints a beautiful, if not realistic picture of railroading.
So I try not to get testy over rejections because of difference of opinions, I accept that this is not my site. I'll send the shots I like and let the screeners pick the ones they like from them. I still shoot in the morning, evening, shade, rain, and snow. The ones RP.net rejects, I add to my computer slide show and photo album.
Maybe I’ll be lucky and get some sunny days this weekend and head up New River after I cut the grass.

mtrails
10-29-2004, 03:28 AM
Amen, JButler. Very well said. I have two points to make: 1. As a result of having photo's rejected, it has made me a better photographer, though I understand that great photo's are being rejected because the screeners may not like them. 2. I love to shoot, and strive for the best shots possible. I am not shooting for the sole purpose of submittal, but for my own personal collection.

If I can share my photos with the world, then that's great, and to have a comment put on a photo, or recieve an e-mail regarding the shot, really makes me feel that I have caught the interest of a fellow railfan, and what a good feeling. This is a place to share a common interest, the best place, though the "common" is heavily mis-understood by many.

At first I was exlcaiming about rejections, but took a step back to realize what my place was at RP.net. Screeners wouldn't even make comments back about appeals because of the exclaiming, so if I were to submit a photo , I would know ahead of time that it was likely to be accepted and the majority from there on, have been.

I submitted a photo tonite that I think many would love to see and hear about, though it was shot on a rainy day, and rejected due to poor lighting. Unfortunately, I did take an extra photo with a slower exposure time to gain more lighting, but resulted in an over-exposed photo. I loose either way on RP.net with that particular photo, but I stick by my photogrophy skill, and primary objective; my interest.