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-   -   N&w 611 & up 844 (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18133)

Grewup on the CW 07-23-2018 11:24 PM

N&w 611 & up 844
 
Ok so the Queen of stream - 611 is operated by Virginia Museum of Transportation over NS trackage. Thru VMT efforts 611 was brought back to life and started roaming the rails again. Now its technically dead on the tracks again due to FRA and its PTC movement, see link ( http://fireup611.org/ ). Today there was a post of UP - 844 out on the rails (http://www.railpictures.net/photo/665229/ ). Who operates this loco? Have they resolved the PTC issue for 844?

NorthWest 07-24-2018 12:40 AM

Union Pacific itself operates 844. Not sure what they're doing for PTC, but I expect they'll figure out something without any issues.

KevinM 07-24-2018 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthWest (Post 194441)
Union Pacific itself operates 844. Not sure what they're doing for PTC, but I expect they'll figure out something without any issues.

Right. UP is the only Class 1 that operates a fleet (just one at the moment) of historic steam locomotives. They run special trains and charters from time to time. They are still promising to have a Big Boy in operation for the 150th anniversary of the transcontinental railroad next year. I suspect that PTC requirements won't be an issue for them. Unlike museums and historic preservation groups, they have the resources and will spend what it takes to comply.

Not sure what will happen with 611. Unlike 844, 611 is not owned by a Class 1 and is dependent on host railroads.....and those seem to be getting fewer and fewer. I think the best hope there is perhaps some of the routes that the Class 1s like Amtrak are abandoning. Of course, someone will need to maintain those routes and the 611 Team has never had to worry about those issues.

Unfortunately, that's one of the realities with big steam locomotives in this age. Unless the owner of the locomotive also owns a railroad, there's never any guarantee of a future for it.

Grewup on the CW 07-24-2018 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinM (Post 194453)
Right. UP is the only Class 1 that operates a fleet (just one at the moment) of historic steam locomotives. They run special trains and charters from time to time. They are still promising to have a Big Boy in operation for the 150th anniversary of the transcontinental railroad next year. I suspect that PTC requirements won't be an issue for them. Unlike museums and historic preservation groups, they have the resources and will spend what it takes to comply.

Not sure what will happen with 611. Unlike 844, 611 is not owned by a Class 1 and is dependent on host railroads.....and those seem to be getting fewer and fewer. I think the best hope there is perhaps some of the routes that the Class 1s like Amtrak are abandoning. Of course, someone will need to maintain those routes and the 611 Team has never had to worry about those issues.

Unfortunately, that's one of the realities with big steam locomotives in this age. Unless the owner of the locomotive also owns a railroad, there's never any guarantee of a future for it.


Thanks for the info. I know there is always more behind the scenes than those not directly involve will ever know about but when reading the article on VMT's website and all the money 611 has generated, one would think that the brass at NS would get on board in some fashion other than just allowing excursions on their rails. You would think they would also want to not forget their roots while benefiting from the added exposure and bringing the next generation a wee bit closer to the life of railroads and ensuring future growth and employees.

bigbassloyd 07-24-2018 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW (Post 194456)
Thanks for the info. I know there is always more behind the scenes than those not directly involve will ever know about but when reading the article on VMT's website and all the money 611 has generated, one would think that the brass at NS would get on board in some fashion other than just allowing excursions on their rails. You would think they would also want to not forget their roots while benefiting from the added exposure and bringing the next generation a wee bit closer to the life of railroads and ensuring future growth and employees.

NS went well above and beyond from 2011 until 2017 directly and indirectly supporting 4 different steam locomotives that ran on the mainline. I chased and rode in places I never imagined possible, and enjoyed every second of it.

Loyd L.

Grewup on the CW 07-24-2018 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 194457)
NS went well above and beyond from 2011 until 2017 directly and indirectly supporting 4 different steam locomotives that ran on the mainline. I chased and rode in places I never imagined possible, and enjoyed every second of it.

Loyd L.

Im sure NS has supported in more ways than we all know about, as I mentioned but why stop now? PTC for 611 should be a no brainer for NS and if cost is an issue for VMT, I go back to my original point that you would think that would still want to keep promoting their heritage....

You mentioned 4 loco's 611 so the other 3? 4501, NKP & ?
Is PTC taken care of for those loco's?

bigbassloyd 07-24-2018 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW (Post 194458)
Im sure NS has supported in more ways than we all know about, as I mentioned but why stop now? PTC for 611 should be a no brainer for NS and if cost is an issue for VMT, I go back to my original point that you would think that would still want to keep promoting their heritage....

You mentioned 4 loco's 611 so the other 3? 4501, NKP & ?
Is PTC taken care of for those loco's?

4501, 630, 765, 611

NS does still promote their Heritage. They sponsor many community events around their system, and there's still 20 locomotives that are now starting to rotate through the paint booth and they aren't coming out black.

Finally concerning PTC.. Any locomotives that have a shot to run on PTC mainlines, will have to be equipped with the equipment. Multiple societies are working towards that goal.

Loyd L.

Grewup on the CW 07-24-2018 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 194459)
4501, 630, 765, 611

NS does still promote their Heritage. They sponsor many community events around their system, and there's still 20 locomotives that are now starting to rotate through the paint booth and they aren't coming out black.

Finally concerning PTC.. Any locomotives that have a shot to run on PTC mainlines, will have to be equipped with the equipment. Multiple societies are working towards that goal.

Loyd L.

I hear & understand ya Lloyd, Im just not sure why NS would want to be upstaged by UP. Seems to me, by providing PTC systems or helping with the cost for the PTC they could help keep their "privately owned" Hertiage loco's running.
Interesting bit of info on the 20 loco's being repainted. Loved to hear more on that subject. NS would make my day if they would supply the CW with their own loco's again. I've been lobbying for CW painted loco's but its all fell on deaf ears so far.

miningcamper1 07-24-2018 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW (Post 194460)
...Im just not sure why NS would want to be upstaged by UP.

Many fans see PR value in running steam excursions, but some railroad CEOs can't be bothered. Were you around when Southern, D&H and Chessie were hotbeds of steam activity? Management changed, and the fires were dropped.
We have been lucky with Union Pacific, but how many know that 844/8444 made what was billed as a "last run" decades ago [the "Blizzard on Sherman Hill" trip]? Thankfully, someone must have convinced the CEO to change his mind regarding steam.

KevinM 07-24-2018 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW (Post 194458)
Im sure NS has supported in more ways than we all know about, as I mentioned but why stop now? PTC for 611 should be a no brainer for NS and if cost is an issue for VMT, I go back to my original point that you would think that would still want to keep promoting their heritage....

I think the answer is that the corporate direction changed when Wick Moorman left NS as CEO. Wick was a steam locomotive fan and actively supported the steam program. Guys like him are like gold.....not too many around any more.

Grewup on the CW 07-25-2018 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinM (Post 194464)
I think the answer is that the corporate direction changed when Wick Moorman left NS as CEO. Wick was a steam locomotive fan and actively supported the steam program. Guys like him are like gold.....not too many around any more.

This seems to be a never ending trend with corporations in general, "Forget what got you were your are today and shove more money in the pocket". It's not always about the mighty dollar......

KevinM 07-25-2018 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW (Post 194472)
This seems to be a never ending trend with corporations in general, "Forget what got you were your are today and shove more money in the pocket". It's not always about the mighty dollar......

It's more than that unfortunately. Class 1s just don't want anything to do with steam locomotives or other historic equipment. They are prone to breakdowns and other issues which could quickly get in the way of revenue operations They also attract crowds....and trespassers, as UP painfully learned last weekend. While the lady who was killed was clearly at fault (she was standing on the edge of the ties filming with a cell phone and was hit by the 844 doing probably 50 mph), the incident will cause them a lot of bad press and there will likely be some baseless lawsuits. As with aviation, it's no longer the laws and regulations that dictate what you can do, it's what the insurance companies will put up with.....and that's becoming more and more restrictive.


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