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-   -   You say the "Best rr photos on the net" ? (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18308)

bigiron 11-29-2019 03:09 PM

You say the "Best rr photos on the net" ?
 
Well I've been away for the most of the year and had a second to look at some pictures today and see the screening process continues to muddy the waters in what is accepted and not!? Good grieve I saw this photo in the top of the day views and how did this get accepted. Sorry for using yours Alex, but having over 800 photos in the database your experience should be telling you this is a shot that should of got the "foreground clutter" at the minimum and have been kept for personnel use IMO. Seeing you have a drone, taking from the other side with just a tree would've been a bit better but still sometimes you just have to draw the line.

[photoid=718049]

It just reiterates to the many photogs that have left the site for various reasons (some for the irrational rejections) that the statement "The best railroad photos on the net" is applied rather loosely. Many have kept much better quality and composed shots from the viewing public that were rejected by the screeners here and to see one that highlights light posts does nothing to ease hard feelings by many, lol. Oh well, time goes on and yes it's their site but live up to the title a bit as the debate will live on ;).

Rich

Jackson Glozer 11-29-2019 03:55 PM

Totally agree with you Rich.

bigbassloyd 11-29-2019 04:13 PM

The bar for aerial photo acceptance here is quite low. Tons of views from curiosity or campaigning, and only ounces of likes for the majority of them.

Loyd L.

Decapod401 11-29-2019 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 196048)
The bar for aerial photo acceptance here is quite low. Tons of views from curiosity or campaigning, and only ounces of likes for the majority of them.

Loyd L.

The biggest offender has denied campaigning here in the forums, but I don't buy it. There's no way that every "Where's Waldo" image leaps to the TO24 without outside help.

bigiron 11-29-2019 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 196048)
The bar for aerial photo acceptance here is quite low. Tons of views from curiosity or campaigning, and only ounces of likes for the majority of them.

Loyd L.

Loyd, I know the bar is a bit lax but you need to have a bar set period and I know you've been here long enough to understand that, lol. It's laughable and does no good for the sites integrity when the parameters set allow shots (many as we know over the years) that shouldn't even get a sniff of acceptance.

Also, I agree with Doug as many shots of no special merit have bloated view counts from some computer viewer, link mania or other factors.

Like I said previous, drone or not the photog needs to get creative with the obstacles given or just keep the shot for their own files if it doesn't measure up. Then there is the photog gets a automatic pass thought. Screening process=one of the great unsolved mysteries :)!

Keep shooting, Rich

RobJor 11-30-2019 03:21 AM

[photoid=689372]

I appreciate this photographer took the time to get his photo when then light would enhance his subject. Not a big fan of stationary steam photos probably from memory of days past watching a slide show where someone would shoot the greater part of a dead line. However, if you do then do the best you can with composition and light, it is just sitting there?

Bob

miningcamper1 11-30-2019 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobJor (Post 196051)
[photoid=689372]

Not a big fan of stationary steam...

...and then there is the lack of a boiler jacket. It's great that these engines have survived, but the visual negatives are so unfortunate.

bigbassloyd 11-30-2019 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigiron (Post 196050)
Loyd, I know the bar is a bit lax but you need to have a bar set period and I know you've been here long enough to understand that

There is a bar set and it's called submit any drone photo no matter how crappily composed, edited, or disfigured from perspective distortion it is. 😂

Loyd L.

KevinM 12-02-2019 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobJor (Post 196051)
[photoid=689372]

I appreciate this photographer took the time to get his photo when then light would enhance his subject. Not a big fan of stationary steam photos probably from memory of days past watching a slide show where someone would shoot the greater part of a dead line. However, if you do then do the best you can with composition and light, it is just sitting there?

Bob

I wish I had the original raw file for this one. I could probably help the person make it look more realistic. As it is, it is overexposed and a little tough on the eyes.

KevinM 12-02-2019 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigiron (Post 196046)
Sorry for using yours Alex, but having over 800 photos in the database your experience should be telling you this is a shot that should of got the "foreground clutter" at the minimum and have been kept for personnel use IMO. Seeing you have a drone, taking from the other side with just a tree would've been a bit better but still sometimes you just have to draw the line.
[photoid=718049]
Rich

I don't own a drone, but have thought of getting one for (very) occasional use when I just could not find a camera position to capture a pleasing composition. In my view, a drone is a replacement for an overpass or a little hill that I wish were there. If the result ends up looking like I was flying, I would consider it a failure. There are most definitely a plethora of images on this site that not only make me wonder: "Why did you take that shot?", but also: "What made you think that a drone would make it more appealing?"

I think both questions apply to this one. :sad:

Dennis A. Livesey 01-10-2020 12:18 AM

The most significant advance since digital photography is aerial photography. For the first time in history, you can have an eye in places impossible to reach before. This allows us to see and understand our world in ways never before thought of. However, as with any tool, it can be misused. Since most people with a camera don't know how to use it, with the same being said of aerial platforms, we who care about the image have to be patient for those who are willing to put in the time to learn how to use it. That is worth the wait.

asis80 01-15-2020 09:26 PM

I'm hoping I fit into the category of "willing to put in the time to use it".

JimThias 02-18-2020 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobJor (Post 196051)
[photoid=689372]

I appreciate this photographer took the time to get his photo when then light would enhance his subject. Not a big fan of stationary steam photos probably from memory of days past watching a slide show where someone would shoot the greater part of a dead line. However, if you do then do the best you can with composition and light, it is just sitting there?

Bob

How about this one?

[photoid=502394]

JimThias 02-18-2020 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miningcamper1 (Post 196052)
...and then there is the lack of a boiler jacket. It's great that these engines have survived, but the visual negatives are so unfortunate.

I have no idea what a "boiler jacket" is and when I look at that photo, it looks like a regular old steam engine to me. [shrug]

JimThias 02-18-2020 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey (Post 196123)
The most significant advance since digital photography is aerial photography. For the first time in history, you can have an eye in places impossible to reach before. This allows us to see and understand our world in ways never before thought of.

Modelers spend their lives looking down at their trains from similar perspectives that drones give real trains, yet drone photography is met with so much negativity. It baffles me.

KevinM 02-18-2020 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 196146)
How about this one?

[photoid=502394]

Hi Jim,

Your image of this display engine is far nicer than the one discussed earlier in the thread. The light is great, and the down-angle is not too steep...just enough to clear the fence. You’re a little more head-on than I like, but you’ve also included a coaling tower in the composition, which really enhances the scene. Not sure you could do much better.

KevinM 02-18-2020 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 196147)
I have no idea what a "boiler jacket" is and when I look at that photo, it looks like a regular old steam engine to me. [shrug]

Hi Jim,

A boiler jacket an insulating layer placed around the boiler shell to minimize heat loss to the atmosphere and improve the thermal efficiency of the engine. Generally, it consists of a layer of insulation material, surrounded by a protective, sheet metal jacket, which is usually painted black. In park engines, the jacket is often removed for a lot of reasons. First, the ones from back in the day contain asbestos insulation, and are a health hazard. Second, when left outside for a long time, water tends to get under the jacket and into the insulation, which then holds the moisture against the boiler shell, promoting corrosion. Removing them actually helps preserve the steel. Unfortunately, to the purist, it doesn’t look right. A boiler jacket looks smooth, and when clean, it also looks shiny. Without the boiler jacket, you can see the raw boiler steel, including the rivets and seams. It’s a dead giveaway that the engine is cold and dead. :)

BTW, most steam engines in service today use a modern insulation such as calcium silicate blocks. Asbestos is no longer used.

KevinM 02-18-2020 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 196148)
Modelers spend their lives looking down at their trains from similar perspectives that drones give real trains, yet drone photography is met with so much negativity. It baffles me.

Everything has its place. I have considered getting a drone for those occasional situations in which I cannot physically get to a camera position from which a good composition can be achieved. As a friend of mine puts it, the drone is like a portable overpass or portable hill to replace the overpass or hill that I wish were present. I think that many traditional photographers get off the drone bus when people shoot from excessive altitudes or extreme angles. Some of us find shots like that far less pleasing than ones taken from a more human perspective. When the shot starts to scream “Hey, I’ve got a drone!!”, or “Look mom, I’m flying!”, that’s when I tune out. :)

bigbassloyd 02-18-2020 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 196148)
yet drone photography is met with so much negativity. It baffles me.

Knowing you have a 'level' complex like I do, your lack of response concerning the perspective distortion and non-leveled drone shots is baffling to me. :D

Neighborhood fireworks and improperly shoveled driveways,

Loyd L.

Decapod401 02-18-2020 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 196148)
Modelers spend their lives looking down at their trains from similar perspectives that drones give real trains, yet drone photography is met with so much negativity. It baffles me.

And yet, most model photography that I've seen is not from a high-altitude drone perspective.

MassArt Images 02-18-2020 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 196146)
How about this one?

[photoid=502394]

Was that with your 25ft. tripod??

Decapod401 02-20-2020 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 196148)
Modelers spend their lives looking down at their trains from similar perspectives that drones give real trains, yet drone photography is met with so much negativity. It baffles me.

I am not negative about drones as much as the way most RP contributors use them. I follow folks on Flickr who use their drones in a manner that is more consistent with the way I (and presumably Kevin, if the subjects were steam) envision their usage. There may be a few other flaws that you can cite in these photos, but composition and visual appeal are not among them. A few examples:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/40666398@N02/48808214688/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/83399266@N02/37201118294/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gejockey/48957384771/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nickpalazini/49506566113/

KevinM 02-20-2020 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decapod401 (Post 196155)
I am not negative about drones as much as the way most RP contributors use them. I follow folks on Flickr who use their drones in a manner that is more consistent with the way I (and presumably Kevin, if the subjects were steam) envision their usage. There may be a few other flaws that you can cite in these photos, but composition and visual appeal are not among them. A few examples:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/40666398@N02/48808214688/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/83399266@N02/37201118294/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gejockey/48957384771/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nickpalazini/49506566113/

Those are nice, Doug. I think that some of the RP contributors could take a lesson from these. You don't need (or want) to be at the maximum operating altitude of your drone to get the optimum view of the subject. As a friend of mine is fond of saying, his drone is a "portable overpass" or a replacement for the hill he wishes were there. We don't NEED to have the horizon in the shot to make it interesting.

Joseph Cermak 02-21-2020 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decapod401 (Post 196155)
I am not negative about drones as much as the way most RP contributors use them. I follow folks on Flickr who use their drones in a manner that is more consistent with the way I (and presumably Kevin, if the subjects were steam) envision their usage. There may be a few other flaws that you can cite in these photos, but composition and visual appeal are not among them. A few examples:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/40666398@N02/48808214688/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/83399266@N02/37201118294/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gejockey/48957384771/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nickpalazini/49506566113/

Todd Novak is probably one of the best out there using a drone right now and very much an inspiration. While I mostly agree with the statements about "not operating at the maximum height" I think it's use is grossly exaggerated in these forums. On one hand, it takes a lot of flight experience to get comfortable to operate at lower altitudes, often requiring flying over something like wires/trees and then descending to the desired height for the photo. On the other hand, I personally think there are some scenes are better photographed from a higher altitude. Not as high as some contributors here use regularly though. Overall, I think there is a balance between this idea that the only ways to use a drone are "as an overpass" or "at the 400 ft max" and that is where the best photos can come from.

Joe the Photog 02-21-2020 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 196148)
Modelers spend their lives looking down at their trains from similar perspectives that drones give real trains, yet drone photography is met with so much negativity. It baffles me.

Same here, actually. Maybe it's jealousy from folks who don't have drones. I don't have one, but some of the photography I see taken with one are really good. Drones are just another tool to get different perspectives

JimThias 02-23-2020 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinM (Post 196149)
Hi Jim,

Your image of this display engine is far nicer than the one discussed earlier in the thread. The light is great, and the down-angle is not too steep...just enough to clear the fence. You’re a little more head-on than I like, but you’ve also included a coaling tower in the composition, which really enhances the scene. Not sure you could do much better.

Thanks, Kevin. I sure would have liked to have been more to the right, but as you can see with the shadow in the foreground, there was a little bit of an obstacle. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 196152)
Knowing you have a 'level' complex like I do, you lack of response concerning the perspective distortion and non-leveled drone shots is baffling to me. :D

Neighborhood fireworks and improperly shoveled driveways,

:lol:

Hey now, I've been critical of wide angle distortion in drone shots, but maybe not so much here. Bugs me when I see someone shooting ultra wide, giving the horizon of the earth a curve. That just looks terrible.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MassArt Images (Post 196154)
Was that with your 25ft. tripod??

Yes, but only extended up about 12-15 feet.

bigbassloyd 02-24-2020 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 196169)
Hey now, I've been critical of wide angle distortion in drone shots, but maybe not so much here. Bugs me when I see someone shooting ultra wide, giving the horizon of the earth a curve. That just looks terrible.

I will give you a pass since my online photography presence is limited to this site, my website, and maybe 2 groups on facebook. :)

Loyd L.

ShortlinesUSA 03-25-2020 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog (Post 196158)
Same here, actually. Maybe it's jealousy from folks who don't have drones. I don't have one, but some of the photography I see taken with one are really good. Drones are just another tool to get different perspectives

Agreed, Joe. However, just like the early days of the Alien Bee craze, some people do it right, and some don't. But the "Golly, jee whiz!" factor does seem to have some effect on the acceptance rate in both cases, IMO.

J-M Frybourg 03-31-2020 10:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi guys, I would just like to get your views about whether this picture should belong to "the BEST railroad photos on the net": https://www.railpictures.net/photo/730511/

J-M Frybourg 03-31-2020 10:30 AM

More precisely, what are the merits for this picture to pass all the rejection reasons like Poor Estheticl Quailty, Composition unbalanced, etc. ?

bigbassloyd 03-31-2020 01:01 PM

After seeing this different, yet superior version posted years back:

[photoid=454437]

I would have probably rejected it.

Loyd L.

J-M Frybourg 03-31-2020 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 196237)
After seeing this different, yet superior version posted years back:

[photoid=454437]

I would have probably rejected it.

Loyd L.

I am aligned. Certainly does not deserve being qualified as one of the "BEST" railroad photos on the net.

The problem is: when non-US pictures of same historical interest are submitted. They are rejected even for some slight defect (as per RPN admission rules). Which is a gross discrimination. The negative consequence for RPN is that RPN does not gain legitimacy to pretend represent worldwide railroad photography, and remains US-biased.

Grewup on the CW 03-31-2020 03:13 PM

[quote from J-M Frybourg......The problem is: when non-US pictures of same historical interest are submitted. They are rejected even for some slight defect (as per RPN admission rules). Which is a gross discrimination. The negative consequence for RPN is that RPN does not gain legitimacy to pretend represent worldwide railroad photography, and remains US-biased.]

Since I am a born and raised American I cannot voice an opinion either way to your "Foreigner" treatment but I can disagree as to the "US-biased treatment". I have tried to submit several of my historical photo's that are of rather bad quality and all but one has been turned down. The one I finally got accepted was the result of my relentless pursuit to get "my" photo on RP. That pic was rejected several times but I kept trying and editing and one day it finally got on RP. IMO, it was simply screeners preference that finally got the pass. It's all in the eyes on the beholder and screener's preference will always cause a personal irritation as to why one pic makes it and another does not. This site, as with most things here on earth, is not perfect. Personally, I just take it with a grain salt and move on to life's next adventure.

J-M Frybourg 03-31-2020 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW (Post 196240)
[quote from J-M Frybourg......The problem is: when non-US pictures of same historical interest are submitted. They are rejected even for some slight defect (as per RPN admission rules). Which is a gross discrimination. The negative consequence for RPN is that RPN does not gain legitimacy to pretend represent worldwide railroad photography, and remains US-biased.]

Since I am a born and raised American I cannot voice an opinion either way to your "Foreigner" treatment but I can disagree as to the "US-biased treatment". I have tried to submit several of my historical photo's that are of rather bad quality and all but one has been turned down. The one I finally got accepted was the result of my relentless pursuit to get "my" photo on RP. That pic was rejected several times but I kept trying and editing and one day it finally got on RP. IMO, it was simply screeners preference that finally got the pass. It's all in the eyes on the beholder and screener's preference will always cause a personal irritation as to why one pic makes it and another does not. This site, as with most things here on earth, is not perfect. Personally, I just take it with a grain salt and move on to life's next adventure.

Well... The picture https://www.railpictures.net/photo/730511/ would CERTAINLY be rejected if it would have been shot in Europe. This is precisely what I call pro-US bias.

Daniel SIMON 03-31-2020 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-M Frybourg (Post 196236)
More precisely, what are the merits for this picture to pass all the rejection reasons like Poor Estheticl Quailty, Composition unbalanced, etc. ?

I fully agree with Jean-Marc on this one. I was very surprised to see that such a poor quality photo can be accepted to the database as it combines, in my view, several reasons for a standard RPN rejection.

- poor aesthetic quality
- noise
- Unbalanced
- Leaning right

Grewup on the CW 03-31-2020 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel SIMON (Post 196242)
I fully agree with Jean-Marc on this one. I was very surprised to see that such a poor quality photo can be accepted to the database as it combines, in my view, several reasons for a standard RPN rejection.

- poor aesthetic quality
- noise
- Unbalanced
- Leaning right

I agree the current accepted shot has issues (As well as my accepted shot) BUT Jean_Marc changed his argument in a later post to US vs the World acceptance which is why I chimed in. I get the frustration BUT I dont think it has anything to do with "What part of the world" the pic came from but merely Screener preference and those inconsistency's create the frustrations.

Since we are putting things out there, I have a request for you non USA posters (and this applies to some USA posters), I like your train pics, I like looking at them BUT when there is no description to tell me anything about your pic/subject matter or relevant history to the pic, How is that educating me or entertaining me thru your story about your pic?? Tom's pictures (I suspect/assume) get more passes than some pics may warrant simply because he tells us a story or puts some descriptive info with it. While his current accepted story was rather short he still put something out there. Tell me a story, give me a personal reason to visit your country and see your trains.

Daniel SIMON 03-31-2020 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW (Post 196243)
I agree the current accepted shot has issues (As well as my accepted shot) BUT Jean_Marc changed his argument in a later post to US vs the World acceptance which is why I chimed in. I get the frustration BUT I dont think it has anything to do with "What part of the world" the pic came from but merely Screener preference and those inconsistency's create the frustrations.

Since we are putting things out there, I have a request for you non USA posters (and this applies to some USA posters), I like your train pics, I like looking at them BUT when there is no description to tell me anything about your pic/subject matter or relevant history to the pic, How is that educating me or entertaining me thru your story about your pic?? Tom's pictures (I suspect/assume) get more passes than some pics may warrant simply because he tells us a story or puts some descriptive info with it. While his current accepted story was rather short he still put something out there. Tell me a story, give me a personal reason to visit your country and see your trains.

Fully agree with you. A poor quality photo must be rejected regardless of its geographic origin.

Grewup on the CW 03-31-2020 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel SIMON (Post 196244)
Fully agree with you. A poor quality photo must be rejected regardless of its geographic origin.

Maybe admin will chime in on this thread and voice his opinion or define "Best" BUT I have to disagree with you Daniel on pics that are of poor quality taken with lesser quality camera than those of today's technology. I define the "Best" as to what makes the pic the "Best" and that is NOT always the quality of the pic but rather the story, memory or historical significance. So I am thankful for those lesser quality pics that did get accepted here on RP, without them I wouldn't know as much about the the "Milwaukee Road, Nickel Plate, SOO, N&W, Southern, Chesapeake Western, Denver Rio Grande just to name a few 'Murica trains........

KevinM 03-31-2020 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW (Post 196243)
Tom's pictures (I suspect/assume) get more passes than some pics may warrant simply because he tells us a story or puts some descriptive info with it. While his current accepted story was rather short he still put something out there. Tell me a story, give me a personal reason to visit your country and see your trains.

I suspect that folks may be mistaken in assuming that RP.net's ONLY "raison d'etre" is to simply showcase the best quality photos on the net, from a technical perspective. While I think that's what they generally aim for, we all need to keep reminding ourselves that RP.net is not a hobby for the site owners, it's a business. It costs money to rent servers, storage and networking. And while it may be a noble goal to aim for high quality, they also have to aim for what they know pulls in the views, which keeps the advertisers happy and the revenue flowing in. Over time, I think that the owners have studied the performance of the material being posted and determined that a relatively small percentage of contributors bring in much more than their share of the total site views. With that knowledge, they might easily make the decision to waive the "submission guidelines" in some cases for those contributors, knowing that on average, those contributors are going to make them some money.

While I would agree that the shot being discussed is not among the contributor's best submissions, the gentleman has brought over 16 million views to the site, and the evidence definitely suggests that his scans of legacy railroad photos are extremely popular. The shot in question, with all of its faults, has over 9,000 views.....a lot more than the one I submitted today will ever get. As long his "technical zingers" don't become the norm, I suspect that the site owners are more than willing to hold their nose once in a while, because in general, his stuff is bringing home the bacon. ;)

RobJor 03-31-2020 08:24 PM

Wisconsin native, Milw employee for a while, Milwaukee Road fan, (Packers Fan, Old Milwaukee Braves fan, that is County Stadium) so you can guess what my decision would be.

Having said that, I have had pretty interesting historic photos rejected . Some were zooms like Tom's, don't think all the zooms back there had the quality at the long end.

This one I had to work on lots to get accepted, so nothing automatic.

[photoid=571765]

Bob


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