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-   -   What's an acceptable timeframe to submit this shot? (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12415)

John Ryan 06-29-2010 08:44 PM

What a trip. I can't wait for all the similar WVA Railfest photo threads to start popping up.

crazytiger 07-05-2010 05:06 PM

Now that Chase's shot got PCA 1, you are going to have to wait longer, IMHO.

cblaz 07-06-2010 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytiger (Post 117064)
Now that Chase's shot got PCA 1, you are going to have to wait longer, IMHO.

What a shocker, Chase got two of the four PCAs this week. You're telling me that of all the shots added to RP that week, he added two of the best? Pretty much puts the nail in the coffin of those that argue the PCA is a fair and balanced award system.

- Chris

Joe the Photog 07-06-2010 04:45 AM

The PCAs are voted on by the people who view the site. You could argue there isn't a more fair system than that.

Chase55671 07-06-2010 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 117089)
What a shocker, Chase got two of the four PCAs this week. You're telling me that of all the shots added to RP that week, he added two of the best? Pretty much puts the nail in the coffin of those that argue the PCA is a fair and balanced award system.

- Chris

It doesn't get much more fair than the PCA system. That's all there is to say. I obviously had nothing to do with winning the PCA's. Apparently the viewers of RP liked the images and I'm thankful for that. That's why I uploaded them in the first place.

No need to make this more dramatic and involved than it really is.

Chase

milwman 07-06-2010 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 117089)
What a shocker, Chase got two of the four PCAs this week. You're telling me that of all the shots added to RP that week, he added two of the best? Pretty much puts the nail in the coffin of those that argue the PCA is a fair and balanced award system.

- Chris

I too see a name adds to number of views going on AB2, Chase, Craig W and others have fans that will look at them just to see what there doing of late. Not bad not good just the way it is.

Mgoldman 07-06-2010 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman (Post 117121)
I too see a name adds to number of views going on AB2, Chase, Craig W and others have fans that will look at them just to see what there doing of late. Not bad not good just the way it is.

It is the collection of images behind the name that adds to the view, not the name itself.

As for PC's... It is the most fair system of all. The only downfall of the system is the unknown number of participants. It's open to millions but unknown to all just how many votes it takes to get a PC. Is it 12? 35? 100 or 2,000. If it's the lower of the pack it would be easy to invalidate the system.

Chris, your zoom pan was very good. Maybe admin could consider a system of "badges" for photos which get over 25 favorites which would get you "in" by 1. Then again, you'd only need 25 good friends to make the list....

/Mitch

bigbassloyd 07-06-2010 04:04 PM

I don't see it as a flawed system. Nobody seems to like Chase as a person... :D :)

Loyd L.

troy12n 07-06-2010 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 117129)
I don't see it as a flawed system. Nobody seems to like Chase as a person... :D :)

Yea, it pretty much sounds like sour grapes

KevinM 07-06-2010 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 116782)
Jim, how would you solve this dilemma on photo charters? Get everyone together at the end and plan who's posting which runby?

There are certain charter attendees that are notorious for posting almost every angle as soon as they get home. For someone helping putting the charter together, I'm glad that the charter gets recognition almost as soon as it's over. At the same time, by the time I get home and get my shots downloaded, there's usually 30-50 shots already added, so the shots end up sitting on my hard drive.

- Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 116817)
BRING 'EM ON - the more the merrier.

How can you have "the <I>best</I> railroad photos on the 'net!" if you only accept the first photos on the 'net?

/Mitch

I guess these two quotes pretty much summarize my thoughts on this subject. If the stated goal is to display the "best on the 'net", the screening policy of rejecting "similar to previous" is not necessarily supporting that goal. I can't speak for everyone else, but I certainly have seen PoTW and SCA images submitted from hotel rooms, that were later trumped by better quality images from those who weren't in such a heated rush for attention. First ain't always best. 'Nuff said. :wink:

cblaz 07-06-2010 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 117123)
It is the collection of images behind the name that adds to the view, not the name itself.

Mitch, we're making the same point. People see the name Chase (or AB2 or Nick McLean or Craig Williams or Mitch Goldman or Jean-Marc) attached to the shot, and based on his body of work, give him a PCA without judging the photo itself. Meanwhile, a better photo from an unfamiliar name (or a European shot) may get passed over. That's why I'm arguing the PCA voting process is a flawed system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 117123)
Chris, your zoom pan was very good. Maybe admin could consider a system of "badges" for photos which get over 25 favorites which would get you "in" by 1. Then again, you'd only need 25 good friends to make the list....

Mitch, none of my shots posted in that week deserved a PCA, especially the zoom pan. The zoom pan is a gimmick; there's no real thought or composition put into it. I did it because the lighting was tough at that spot. I'm much more proud of some of my wide angle scenic stuff I did on that charter (that I haven't add to RP) than the zoom pan.

- Chris

ken45 07-06-2010 07:51 PM

This is one of the most interesting threads that has come up on the forums in a long time. What it seems to come down to is this: is Railpictures one single portfolio of rail related pictures, or a collection of various photographers portfolios? The people who are saying one version of this shot is enough seem to be supporting the single portfolio approach. I know at times I have gotten sick of seeing 4-5 identical shots from some charter uploaded in a few days time, and I'm sure those people making this argument are thinking along those lines.

But what if Lloyd really wants this shot in his RP portfolio? Should he be denied by the screeners or even his own potential thought that since Chase had the shot on already that he should denied? I say no, and from my observations of the way the site is run, the screeners and admins agree: RP is a collection of individual portfolios, and if that means there may be practically identical shots from different photographers, so be it. Just don't pad your stats by uploading duplicate shots within you own portfolio. I think this is the right way to go. As for Lloyd, upload whenever you want. Sure you'll miss out on some views from people who've "seen that shot already, he's just copying Chase" but it will compliment your portfolio as well.

troy12n 07-06-2010 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 117158)
Mitch, we're making the same point. People see the name Chase (or AB2 or Nick McLean or Craig Williams or Mitch Goldman or Jean-Marc) attached to the shot, and based on his body of work, give him a PCA without judging the photo itself. Meanwhile, a better photo from an unfamiliar name (or a European shot) may get passed over. That's why I'm arguing the PCA voting process is a flawed system.

Do you honestly think stuff like that happens?

Really??

If anything, especially since Chase seems to be such a polarizing figure, I would figure the OPPOSITE occurs.

I think you are way off base here, really.

I dont vote on those things, but when I am looking at photos, I really never even take notice to who the photographer is. Sometimes without even looking I can guess based on subject matter or location though. It would not deter me from voting one way or another if someone I either like or dislike had a really good photo.

EDIT: I just made my first ever vote for the "CN Schoolbus"

ken45 07-06-2010 08:06 PM

Regarding the PCAs, they have been an absolute joke for a very long time. Whenever I cast a PC vote, it's for a shot I feel is aesthetically outstanding, with tasteful processing. Judging from the results, there are a significant number of voters who have entirely different reasons for casting a PC vote, which is why you have so many gimmick shots, grossly processed HDR shots, and even wrecks getting PCAs. Some of the choices in the past have simply left me questioning the sanity of the average RP viewer! But, it is the PEOPLE'S choice, and they can choose a shot for whatever reason they want, even if I may find their reasons ludicrous. I just have to accept that the PCA's are not a measure of a shots "goodness" on my personal scale, but on a scale of the average site viewer and their tastes. Because of this, receiving or missing out on a PCA means very little to me anymore. I would rather receive a complimentary comment or email from another photographer I admire versus receiving a PCA. And if you think the PCAs are bad, you should check out Trainorders, where people fawn over Chuchubobnv and Macbeau's "work" and how awesome of a photographer they are. It's even more sickening than some of the PCA choices.

bigbassloyd 07-06-2010 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken45 (Post 117170)
he's just copying Chase


I closed my shutter first on both shots we took that night :D ;)

hehe.

Loyd L.

JimThias 07-07-2010 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 117158)
Mitch, we're making the same point. People see the name Chase (or AB2 or Nick McLean or Craig Williams or Mitch Goldman or Jean-Marc) attached to the shot, and based on his body of work, give him a PCA without judging the photo itself. Meanwhile, a better photo from an unfamiliar name (or a European shot) may get passed over. That's why I'm arguing the PCA voting process is a flawed system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy12n (Post 117175)
Do you honestly think stuff like that happens?

Really??

If anything, especially since Chase seems to be such a polarizing figure, I would figure the OPPOSITE occurs.

I think you are way off base here, really.

I dont vote on those things, but when I am looking at photos, I really never even take notice to who the photographer is. Sometimes without even looking I can guess based on subject matter or location though. It would not deter me from voting one way or another if someone I either like or dislike had a really good photo.

I have to agree with Troy here. There is ZERO evidence that PCAs are awarded due to the name attached to the photograph.

If a photograph deserves a PCA vote, it'll get one from me regardless if I know the photographer or have never heard of him (or her). I'm sure most other people who view RP feel the same way...but that's just my speculation without any evidence to back it up. :lol:

crazytiger 07-07-2010 02:33 AM

Why the heck did you vote for the SCHOOLBUS? It is a freaking roster shot of a mostly average school bus. WHAT THE CRAP?!?!?!? Nothing against the shot but there is no reason for it getting a PC vote.

troy12n 07-07-2010 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytiger (Post 117206)
Why the heck did you vote for the SCHOOLBUS? It is a freaking roster shot of a mostly average school bus. WHAT THE CRAP?!?!?!? Nothing against the shot but there is no reason for it getting a PC vote.

It's a protest vote.

It's a complete sham that was even accepted. Look at all the terrible shadows and stuff, awful.

crazytiger 07-07-2010 02:44 AM

Gotcha.

Limit

Mgoldman 07-07-2010 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 117158)
Mitch, we're making the same point. People see the name Chase (or AB2 or Nick McLean or Craig Williams or Mitch Goldman or Jean-Marc) attached to the shot, and based on his body of work, give him a PCA without judging the photo itself. Meanwhile, a better photo from an unfamiliar name (or a European shot) may get passed over. That's why I'm arguing the PCA voting process is a flawed system.



Mitch, none of my shots posted in that week deserved a PCA, especially the zoom pan. The zoom pan is a gimmick; there's no real thought or composition put into it. I did it because the lighting was tough at that spot. I'm much more proud of some of my wide angle scenic stuff I did on that charter (that I haven't add to RP) than the zoom pan.

- Chris

Chris - your point and my own are far from similar here. If anything I agree with Ken in regards to what a majority of voting viewers may find appealing. With four slots open that should still leave room for a good percentage of quality images to make the... er, that cut.

As far as pans being a gimmick with no thought or composition involved by your admission, one wonders why, then, were you were so quick to post it. I'd have thought you'd want to share instead the photos you state you are most proud of?

/Mitch

cblaz 07-08-2010 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 117158)
Mitch, we're making the same point. People see the name Chase (or AB2 or Nick McLean or Craig Williams or Mitch Goldman or Jean-Marc) attached to the shot, and based on his body of work, give him a PCA without judging the photo itself. Meanwhile, a better photo from an unfamiliar name (or a European shot) may get passed over. That's why I'm arguing the PCA voting process is a flawed system.

Mitch, none of my shots posted in that week deserved a PCA, especially the zoom pan. The zoom pan is a gimmick; there's no real thought or composition put into it. I did it because the lighting was tough at that spot. I'm much more proud of some of my wide angle scenic stuff I did on that charter (that I haven't add to RP) than the zoom pan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 117216)
Chris - your point and my own are far from similar here. If anything I agree with Ken in regards to what a majority of voting viewers may find appealing. With four slots open that should still leave room for a good percentage of quality images to make the... er, that cut.

As far as pans being a gimmick with no thought or composition involved by your admission, one wonders why, then, were you were so quick to post it. I'd have thought you'd want to share instead the photos you state you are most proud of?

Mitch, thanks to your recent additions, you have only helped prove my point that the voting process of PCAs in flawed. After our discussion on zoom pans, you added one of yours from the charter so now we can go to the tale of the tape and examine the numbers. The shots in question:

[photoid=329556]
[photoid=330687]
Your shot has the totally green hillside as a backdrop and the train is on a bridge, while mine has a little piece of sky and the parallel road as the only major differences.

I added my zoom pan on Sunday, June 27 while you added yours over a week later on July 6. As of 1:30am on July 8, my shot has 715 views, 28 favorites and 4 comments in the week and a half it's been on. In comparison, your zoom pan has received 585 views, 30 favorites and 4 comments in just over a day, well on its way it seems to a PCA.

If your shot does eventually win a PCA, how do you explain that? Is there that big a difference between the two shots? Is there something in yours that's missing in mine? Does the difference between a 1/10th exposure and 1/5th exposure matter that much?

Another interesting thing to note is the views you accumulated by posting the shot to other forums. Over 180 views have come from links posted on two other forums. Those links draw eyeballs directly to your shot without going through the RP photostream, while a well-done foreign shot (cough David Benn's South African steam on a bridge silhouette cough) that isn't linked anywhere else might not get the attention it deserves. Doesn't view whoring like that make the PCAs an unfair fight?

- Chris

mark woody 07-08-2010 07:29 AM

Chris as a foriegn member i can see your point but linking offsite is also available to me and often done without the photogs knowledge, i have noticed links on some of my shots mainly google translate that i have no idea about. As to the shots in question i think Mitch,s shot has better light/more dramatic,sorry i like both however.

pderekh 07-08-2010 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travsirocz (Post 116748)
One solution for Canon owners is to make sure your Long Exposure Custom Function is on.

Thanks for the reminder about that function. I normally leave it turned off as it slows down the burst rate and I don't normally shoot exposures longer than 30 sec due to the city lights in the west suburbs.

JRMDC 07-08-2010 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 117321)
while a well-done foreign shot (cough David Benn's South African steam on a bridge silhouette cough) that isn't linked anywhere else might not get the attention it deserves.

I'm not in a mood to take up the argument here, but I will say that Chris, you are not doing David Benn any favors, not giving us a thumbnail to the shot, nor leaving a comment (which perhaps only I view as a higher kudo than a favorite).

[photoid=330597]

All of David's shots (lots of nice plumes)

http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=44256

EMTRailfan 07-08-2010 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark woody (Post 117324)
Chris as a foriegn member i can see your point but linking offsite is also available to me and often done without the photogs knowledge, i have noticed links on some of my shots mainly google translate that i have no idea about. As to the shots in question i think Mitch,s shot has better light/more dramatic,sorry i like both however.

Another one, at least with my photos is:
http://foro.ibertrainz.eu/index.php?topic=6921.2240

Although I couldn't read what was being said about my photos because I didn't feel like translating, I could see the threads. Seems like they locked it up, and made it a members' only forum.


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