RailPictures.Net Forums

RailPictures.Net Forums (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/index.php)
-   Railroad Photography Forum (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Your first amendment rights (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15153)

sd9 03-20-2012 02:45 AM

Your first amendment rights
 
“Your first amendment rights can be terminated so says the CPD! Keep that in mind when your out in Chicago track-side.

Ten people were killed and at least 39 others were wounded in shootings across the city this weekend (Chicago) and this is what they were up to, (see link below, you have to watch the video you will not believe it)
and talk about professionalism, listen how many times he drops the F bomb
"F*** news affairs, I don’t care about news affairs. Forget news affairs,” he said."

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/chic...be-terminated/


The full audio clip was on WLS Radio today with Roe & Roeper

nikos1 03-20-2012 02:54 AM

The police are out of control in this country, its pretty sad when we are ranked lower than Soviet Russia in terms of photographic freedom. Its taken alot of the fun out of railfaning for me to have to be worried every time about having to deal with some ahole cop who wants to make up laws as he goes.
http://www.trainweb.org/railphot/Regulations.htm

Mgoldman 03-20-2012 03:12 AM

Freedom ain't free and it's being taken away from us little by little while those in power hope we won't even notice until it's too late.

I've seen and heard a lot of things over the last four years that really scare me.

http://youtu.be/fCyqwBBCaug

On a lighter note - has anyone posted any train pics with dogs?

/Mitch

Mgoldman 03-20-2012 03:18 AM

Incidentally, most of these "laws" and rights are still in effect in the US.

Here is a list of helpful items as you battle the war on photography:

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

http://www.billadler.net/Photographe...ights_Card.pdf

http://www.zaprag.com/products

Your mileage may vary.

/Mitch

Chris Z 03-20-2012 03:31 AM

That's not surprising of the Chicago Police. Once when I was taking pictures on Michigan Ave, a Chicago cop told me to stop taking pictures and leave or he'd arrest me for trespassing on public property.

And once seven squad cars pulled up to arrest me for eating my lunch in my car while I was legally parked on a public street.

I try to avoid going to Chicago as much as possible and I also refuse jobs there any more.

Chris Z

CN Railfan 03-20-2012 03:52 AM

I thought of recently UP and BNSF had statements welcoming friendly photography as long as it is done in a proper manner i.e. not trespassing etc. It helps keep a watchful eye to uncover the actual crime that is going behind the scenes.

WMHeilman 03-20-2012 02:05 PM

Chicago is a shithole anyway. The cops there have MUCH better things to do around that city than worry about people taking pictures.

viper 03-20-2012 04:06 PM

Wow, a police agency that's worse than LAPD? Never thought that was possible.

Greg P 03-20-2012 04:39 PM

Gangs are the perfect scape goats to revoke civil liberties.

bigbassloyd 03-20-2012 04:42 PM

Everytime I read one of these articles, I'm very thankful to live where I do. I may have to drive 20 miles to get to a store, but nobody here has a problem with a guy standing trackside with a camera at 3am.. :D

Loyd L.

jnohallman 03-20-2012 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 153045)
. . . nobody here has a problem with a guy standing trackside with a camera at 3am.. :D

Loyd L.

Isn't that just because there really is nobody there? :lol:

Jon

Coloradorailfan 03-20-2012 08:59 PM

In the many years I have been railfanning, I haven't had any troubles with cops and me railfanning. But last year or so some cop told me I was quote on quote trespassing on railroad property when I clearly wasn't. I was behind the property line away from the tracks. But I wasn't gonna argue with him. Of course he didn't leave until after the train went by. Overall, haven't had issues. But I rather railfan in the middle of no where ;)

bigbassloyd 03-20-2012 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnohallman (Post 153047)
Isn't that just because there really is nobody there? :lol:

Jon

Does wildlife count? :D

Loyd L.

CSX1702 03-20-2012 10:25 PM

There's a few things I have noticed.

If you're on public property and you're not disrupting anything anybody, traffic for example, I don't think a cop can legally say anything to you. But, that being said, when a cop issues an order, follow it, unless it's something completely ridiculous. Never argue with a cop, it never ends up good. They deserve respect for what they do no matter how much of a pain in the rear end they are. Now, if you really have that much trouble with what a cop is telling you to do, take them to court if your precious little pictures mean that much to you.

Also, as for the news people, they were creating a scene. They stood there in the face of an officer issuing an order, I do believe that counts as creating a scene. People wonder why cops are always in a bad mood. It's because they get a lot of disrespect these days from people like this. These people put themselves in harms way everyday and don't deserve photographers making their lives any harder. I'm 17 and I know this, folks, come on.

Mgoldman 03-20-2012 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX1702 (Post 153052)
But, that being said, when a cop issues an order, follow it, unless it's something completely ridiculous.

Rights... who needs them? Let someone else defend your right to take a photo on public property. Or, hell, do we really need such rights?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX1702 (Post 153052)
Never argue with a cop, it never ends up good.

Several policies by transit agencies have been rewritten to correctly honor those rights that were fought for when this county was established. They were rewritten because people stood up for their constitutionally guaranteed rights. Freedom is not free, it has to be fought for lest it be lost. It's a lot easier to fight for something you have then for something you had.


Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX1702 (Post 153052)
They deserve respect for what they do no matter how much of a pain in the rear end they are.

"Your first amendment rights can be terminated".
Sure.... And what next?


Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX1702 (Post 153052)
Now, if you really have that much trouble with what a cop is telling you to do, take them to court if your precious little pictures mean that much to you.

I'd take them to court even if the only picture I had taken was a test shot of the sidewalk. It's not about the photos - it's about defending your rights as guaranteed by something the current administration is trying amend beyond recognition called the Constitution. I think you can still read about it on-line.


Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX1702 (Post 153052)
Also, as for the news people, they were creating a scene. They stood their in the face of an officer issuing an order, I do believe that counts as creating a scene. People wonder why cops are always in a bad mood. It's because they get a lot of disrespect these days from people like this.

How can you respect an officer of the LAW who abuses his legal authority and states that your first amendment rights can be terminated???

The respect must be mutual.

/Mitch

JRMDC 03-20-2012 10:51 PM

One can choose to follow an order and then follow-up with a formal complaint. That seems more effective than getting arrested and then fighting. For one, the presumption is then against you, whereas in the first case, it is neutral.

Mgoldman 03-20-2012 11:01 PM

Formal complaints lack proof and therefore have no leverage in correcting unlawful behavior by governmental officials who have strayed from their authority.

I am ALWAYS courteous to officials when approached and disagree when others refuse to show proof of ID despite the illegality of such requests. I'll even show my images to the officials. I will assume that the best interests of the country are at stake here and not simply the more often case where someone simply wants to abuse his or her authority. Cross that line, however, and I'll follow these examples:

RP member and Railfan Magazine editor Steve Barry:
http://www.pixiq.com/article/NYPD%20...phing%20Trains
http://www.nyclu.org/case/barry-v-ci...-subway-system

RP member: Chris Fussell:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...vid-rocah-aclu

/Mitch

Joe the Photog 03-20-2012 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 153055)

Wow. About six minutes into the first part.... and just wow. Now they are telling him he can't record them in public.

CSX1702 03-21-2012 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 153053)
Rights... who needs them? Let someone else defend your right to take a photo on public property. Or, hell, do we really need such rights?



Several policies by transit agencies have been rewritten to correctly honor those rights that were fought for when this county was established. They were rewritten because people stood up for their constitutionally guaranteed rights. Freedom is not free, it has to be fought for lest it be lost. It's a lot easier to fight for something you have then for something you had.




"Your first amendment rights can be terminated".
Sure.... And what next?




I'd take them to court even if the only picture I had taken was a test shot of the sidewalk. It's not about the photos - it's about defending your rights as guaranteed by something the current administration is trying amend beyond recognition called the Constitution. I think you can still read about it on-line.




How can you respect an officer of the LAW who abuses his legal authority and states that your first amendment rights can be terminated???

The respect must be mutual.

/Mitch

Well first I'm pretty sure we are not fighting to be freed from the cops. Secondly, there was one cop in Chicago the other day (or whenever) that said something wrong when trying to remove someone that had been complained about (or not.) Nevertheless, they were arguing with the cops, creating a scene, when all they had to do was step across the street onto another median. Boo- freakin' hoo. I've parked in our police station's parking lot to take pictures and they just drive by. Please, don't judge an entire work force on a couple of bad eggs.

CSX1702 03-21-2012 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 153055)
Formal complaints lack proof and therefore have no leverage in correcting unlawful behavior by governmental officials who have strayed from their authority.

I am ALWAYS courteous to officials when approached and disagree when others refuse to show proof of ID despite the illegality of such requests. I'll even show my images to the officials. I will assume that the best interests of the country are at stake here and not simply the more often case where someone simply wants to abuse his or her authority. Cross that line, however, and I'll follow these examples:

RP member and Railfan Magazine editor Steve Barry:
http://www.pixiq.com/article/NYPD%20...phing%20Trains
http://www.nyclu.org/case/barry-v-ci...-subway-system

RP member: Chris Fussell:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...vid-rocah-aclu

/Mitch


Why not give photo ID? That is definitely reason to make a cop suspicious.

Mgoldman 03-21-2012 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX1702 (Post 153057)
Please, don't judge an entire work force on a couple of bad eggs.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 153055)
I am ALWAYS courteous to officials when approached and disagree when others refuse to show proof of ID despite the illegality of such requests. I'll even show my images to the officials. I will assume that the best interests of the country are at stake here and not simply the more often case where someone simply wants to abuse his or her authority. Cross that line, however.../Mitch

You form opinions based upon experience and that of others.
Incidentally, I've had very few bad experiences with police and only
moderate aggravation with transit agencies. Perhaps in part due to
the "brave men (and women)" such as those listed above in my links.

/Mitch

CSX1702 03-21-2012 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgoldman (Post 153059)
You form opinions based upon experience and that of others.
Incidentally, I've had very few bad experiences with police and only
moderate aggravation with transit agencies. Perhaps in part due to
the "brave men (and women)" such as those listed above in my links.

/Mitch

Well transit agencies probably could use some help, but it's not like their intentions were bad.

sd9 03-21-2012 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX1702 (Post 153052)
There's a few things I have noticed.

Also, as for the news people, they were creating a scene. They stood there in the face of an officer issuing an order, I do believe that counts as creating a scene. People wonder why cops are always in a bad mood. It's because they get a lot of disrespect these days from people like this. These people put themselves in harms way everyday and don't deserve photographers making their lives any harder. I'm 17 and I know this, folks, come on.


"people like this". You mean news reporters?
"These people put themselves in harms way everyday and don't deserve photographers making their lives any harder?" what were they doing to make their lives harder?
"I'm 17 and I know this, folks, come on."

:lol:Your 17! and know this I'm glad you know so much, what is scary is you will be able to vote next year

Photoshooter09 03-21-2012 02:46 AM

Carry an audio recorder and voice record the encounter, that is legal says the SCOTUS. Also, an Officer has no legal grounds to ask for ID unless there is reasonable cause that you have or, are committing a crime. Always comply if an Officer is actually demanding you to do something. Again, record the encounter and make it known that you will comply only under protest and duress and NEVER, EVER consent to a search of your person or vehicle! I am not a lawyer and not offering legal counsel..

CSX1702 03-21-2012 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sd9 (Post 153066)
"people like this". You mean news reporters?
"These people put themselves in harms way everyday and don't deserve photographers making their lives any harder?" what were they doing to make their lives harder?
"I'm 17 and I know this, folks, come on."

:lol:Your 17! and know this I'm glad you know so much, what is scary is you will be able to vote next year

Let's see, they were taking up their time arguing when they could've stepped back liked they asked so they could go back to their jobs.

And is it scary that I will be able to vote because I respect police officers?


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.