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-   -   What is wrong with cloudy day photos? (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17835)

John Russell - NZ 12-12-2016 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinM (Post 190042)
Hi John,

No, there is nothing sinister about Jim's 10 upload limit. Lots of us have that same limit.. When the site first opened in the early 2000's everyone started with a 10 upload limit. That practice continued until late in the decade. At one point, Admin began discussing reducing the limit for those who had high rates of rejection and they ultimately began to enforce that practice. Eventually, with lots of new people joining and starting to blitz the upload queue with sub-par work, Admin placed a limit on all new members. That's when they also started to offer Elite Memberships for those who wanted more.

At least as of right now, those original members who managed to figure out the "RP Recipe" without feeling the need to blitz the queue, appeal every last rejection or send nasty e-mails to the Admins still have the 10 shot limit on uploads. I personally never abuse it. I think the max I have ever done was about 7 shots, and that was probably just once. I rarely upload more than one a day and lately, I have just been too busy to find the time. Hopefully, that will change as we approach the holidays.

Kevin, I hope that changes too! I love your photos. Shouldn't be any upload limit for you! Thanks for the clarification about membership. I don't appeal anything now - I probably didn't learn that fast enough though. Thanks guys for your helpful comments.

Mberry 12-12-2016 03:00 PM

I've been an rp member going back to the mid-2000's I guess but only started uploading in August 2013. Since then I've gone from 5 to 2 to 10 to 1 to 2 slots I believe.:shock:

Decapod401 12-12-2016 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mberry (Post 190045)
I've been an rp member going back to the mid-2000's I guess but only started uploading in August 2013. Since then I've gone from 5 to 2 to 10 to 1 to 2 slots I believe.:shock:

I joined in July 2014, and my limit has always been two uploads per day. It was a little frustrating early on when I was getting a lot of rejections as this film guy started to learn digital photo processing. I would make a correction and then have to wait until the next day to get feedback on the adjustment.

Now I have no desire to have more than two slots. I spend more time than I should processing photos and researching/writing captions at a two-a-day rate.

John Russell - NZ 12-28-2016 07:55 PM

It appears that the 10 photo upload limit applied to about 2010 at least according to a post I found.

John Russell - NZ 12-28-2016 07:57 PM

I have now added the subject photo to Flickr.com group "Rejected by RailPictures.net": https://www.flickr.com/photos/139637...-29741875@N00/ It will be in some good company in this group started in 2006. I have often wondered what gems could be among photo rejections (which probably number well over a million now,) especially reading that others too have had magazine/ calendar published photos rejected by RPN.

JimThias 12-29-2016 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ (Post 190197)
I have often wondered what gems could be among photo rejections (which probably number well over a million now,) especially reading that others too have had magazine/ calendar published photos rejected by RPN.

A lot of magazine published images have nothing to do with quality. RP's standards are generally much higher. I can open up any railroad-related magazine and pick out shots that would be (and should be) rejected by RP's standards.

John Russell - NZ 12-29-2016 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 190200)
A lot of magazine published images have nothing to do with quality. RP's standards are generally much higher. I can open up any railroad-related magazine and pick out shots that would be (and should be) rejected by RP's standards.

I totally agree Jim, even when it comes to cover and calendar photos which I hold to a higher standard. For magazines this can be expected for photos that are historic or rare, especially as part of an article or story. My understanding is that RP can make similar allowances. As far as any standard is concerned, how it is applied depends on "interestingness" factors, including the personal preferences or standards of the screener. My standards obviously differ from that of screening team as I often see accepted images I would find hard to accept due to lack of lens distortion correction (especially verticals not being vertical) or the whole side of the subject train in shadow. The cloudy day rejection is worded in a way that seems to imply that it's primarily concerned with "common power", common angles etc. Since starting this post I found this quote from a guide written by Chase Gunnoe: "RailPictures likes great photographs of trains, not photography of great trains." (http://www.therailroadcollection.com...ginners-guide/.) So it seems that it doesn't matter how rare the vehicle or any trains on a section of track might be, if it's not very well lit and/ or interesting enough it doesn't generally get in. And if cloudy day photos aren't OK, there's a lot of scenic or interesting railroad scenes that world won't see on RP.

RobJor 12-29-2016 12:50 PM

I have to admit to a little smile when I read all the angst about the rules, composition, light etc and then view many the top photos which often have little to with all that "stuff". They are often wrecks, dead lines, stored power, or sometimes "re-views" of things I have seen before with maybe a little different angle.

I have nothing against these images as they have interest for viewer's including myself but do not fit into the "great photo" category??? I did have a little extra big smile tho when I saw the "re-view" of the pickup in the desert which had gone through several iterations on this forum.

Bob

John West 12-29-2016 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ (Post 190197)
I have now added the subject photo to Flickr.com group "Rejected by RailPictures.net": https://www.flickr.com/photos/139637...-29741875@N00/ It will be in some good company in this group started in 2006. I have often wondered what gems could be among photo rejections (which probably number well over a million now,) especially reading that others too have had magazine/ calendar published photos rejected by RPN.

Thanks for the link the Flickr group, had not seen that. In browsing through the Flickr group and recent RP images my quick and dirty impression is they are more similar than different. Way too many wedgies in both places, and both illustrate the inconsistencies of screening...the Flickr group has a bunch that make you wonder why they were rejected by RP, and RP has a bunch that make you wonder why they were accepted. Probably the major difference is the Flickr group does have a lot more images with poor to mediocre lighting, or color balance issues. But overall the two are more similar than different. Kinda of reminds me of the stock market and the fact that unmanaged funds often outperform managed funds. But that said, I think the give and take at RP is useful in that even "bad" criticism helps us be more critical of our own work.

John Russell - NZ 12-29-2016 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John West (Post 190212)
Thanks for the link the Flickr group, had not seen that. In browsing through the Flickr group and recent RP images my quick and dirty impression is they are more similar than different. Way too many wedgies in both places, and both illustrate the inconsistencies of screening...the Flickr group has a bunch that make you wonder why they were rejected by RP, and RP has a bunch that make you wonder why they were accepted...

I kind of agree mostly - except that I like wedgies. It's the setting (background or interesting structure) that makes the difference to me. I've had rejections for any radically different angles (going away or from below a viaduct) so that might partly explain why so many wedgies. Actually a criticism I read often is that too many photos are far too distant. Great setting but where is the train in the thumbnail? I'd agree that some of them are let down by 1200*800 format.

John West 12-30-2016 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ (Post 190220)
I kind of agree mostly - except that I like wedgies.

A really good wedgie is a thing of joy and beauty. But the fact they are so common, and many not so really good, works to their disadvantage. I do not dislike wedgies but I do enjoy variety.

SAR Connecta 12-30-2016 03:09 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ (Post 190197)
I have now added the subject photo to Flickr.com group "Rejected by RailPictures.net": https://www.flickr.com/photos/139637...-29741875@N00/ It will be in some good company in this group started in 2006. I have often wondered what gems could be among photo rejections (which probably number well over a million now,) especially reading that others too have had magazine/ calendar published photos rejected by RPN.

John, my very novice observation of your rejected photo is that you left the photo very "open". Perhaps a tighter crop of your rare subject and a bit of added editing pop may well have seen it in the RP database.

For me personally, I'm not a fan of the Flickr group "Rejected by Railpictures.net". A group of disgruntled RP contributors is not my idea of fun.

John Russell - NZ 12-30-2016 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAR Connecta (Post 190223)
John, my very novice observation of your rejected photo is that you left the photo very "open". Perhaps a tighter crop of your rare subject and a bit of added editing pop may well have seen it in the RP database.

For me personally, I'm not a fan of the Flickr group "Rejected by Railpictures.net". A group of disgruntled RP contributors is not my idea of fun.

The rejection wasn't for cropping/ composition though that might have been the next reason. I don't care about my photo. I care more about the photos of others that I'm not going to see on RP. I care more about whether RP has screening that in practice is fair to all and encourages contributors like this excellent forum does. I care that most (if not all) other RP contributors from my country have given up. I care that the reputation of RP.net is not what it should be though I say it is what it claims to be. There is definitely a place for the Flickr.com group. I wish I knew about it while I waited nearly 3 years to get entry into this forum. I doubt that even most the photos there are actually RP photo rejections though. Thanks to all who helped clarify some points about the membership along the way of this thread. To sum up: the cloudy day rejection is generally applied, especially for foreign railroad subjects; it generally doesn't matter if the subject is historical or rare. Now to answer the question posed at the beginning, let the test results speak.

SAR Connecta 12-31-2016 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ (Post 190226)
The rejection wasn't for cropping/ composition though that might have been the next reason. I don't care about my photo. I care more about the photos of others that I'm not going to see on RP. I care more about whether RP has screening that in practice is fair to all and encourages contributors like this excellent forum does. I care that most (if not all) other RP contributors from my country have given up. I care that the reputation of RP.net is not what it should be though I say it is what it claims to be. There is definitely a place for the Flickr.com group. I wish I knew about it while I waited nearly 3 years to get entry into this forum. I doubt that even most the photos there are actually RP photo rejections though. Thanks to all who helped clarify some points about the membership along the way of this thread. To sum up: the cloudy day rejection is generally applied, especially for foreign railroad subjects; it generally doesn't matter if the subject is historical or rare. Now to answer the question posed at the beginning, let the test results speak.

John, I did realise that your original rejection was not for cropping / composition. My suggestion to try another crop was to see if the overall effect of the cloudy "open" scene could be minimised and place more emphasis your historical subject (railcar) i.e. to maximise the appeal of your photo which was presented for screening with a given / valid rejection reason already chalked up against it. Possibly even a black & white conversion would have worked? Rejections are always frustrating, but I've come to realise that they make a lot more sense a day or so later, rather than when initially received. Personally, I don't agree that the generic "Cloudy" rejection is applied unduly to foreign railroad subjects. I live in Durban, South Africa and I've had a few cloudy (grey & dingy) photos accepted and there are many such photos routinely accepted from around the world. I don't envy the RP screeners at all, but I do love looking through the accepted photos on RP on a daily basis and am very confidant that as a whole they get it right.

John Russell - NZ 12-31-2016 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAR Connecta (Post 190227)
I don't envy the RP screeners at all, but I do love looking through the accepted photos on RP on a daily basis and am very confidant that as a whole they get it right.

Yes a big thanks to everyone who makes RP what it says it is and a great community to be part of. We must accept that standards here (or anywhere) may not be what we want personally. I would prefer that viewers have a little more decision making in what they see on RP. Of course, the RP reputation requires that the standard must be held high. I raised this matter to get more clarity around it as there seems a noticeable shift in screener discretion lately. Overall, the screeners do a great job at keeping RP's reputation. Thanks guys!

Good luck for 2017 (already well under way here.)

JRMDC 01-02-2017 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ (Post 190234)
I would prefer that viewers have a little more decision making in what they see on RP.

Could I then end the endless monotony of dull wedgies? Please? Please? :)

John Russell - NZ 01-02-2017 08:52 PM

I wish I could stop submitting so many but it seems that almost anytime I try something even a little different I get a rejection for composition. I don't like distant shots much so maybe tend to take photos a bit too tight. It seems one almost needs a long train and S curves which are scarce around here. Here's the latest "fatal" rejection...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...75&key=2735564

RobJor 01-02-2017 10:48 PM

I really like this one, there is the layered effect from foreground to background and there is cattle which always has interest so if you had a shot probably one car length before, the loco like some of the others is almost ready to run off the edge of the image. Beyond that there are the wires unsupported and there seems to be something odd with them unless that is how they are twisted. Unless you wanted to deal with them??? The information content is a little on the brief side.


Bob

Besides that I always wanted to go to NZ.

John Russell - NZ 01-03-2017 07:29 PM

Thanks Bob. I ever you can make the trip here do it sooner rather than later, before these Chinese locomotives take over from the EMD and GE types. I'd be only too happy to help you, or anybody else, with information etc.

The information is lacking because I thought this photo might get rejected. Yes, the photo taken a bit too tight for RP because of my preference to not have too much dead thorn bush (gorse) in the foreground of the shot and to include as much of the train as possible. I often spend hours dealing with vegetation to get shots so it can be literally shedding blood, sweat and tears!

This photo is on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/1396375...posted-public/

John West 01-03-2017 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ (Post 190284)
I wish I could stop submitting so many but it seems that almost anytime I try something even a little different I get a rejection for composition. I don't like distant shots much so maybe tend to take photos a bit too tight. It seems one almost needs a long train and S curves which are scarce around here. Here's the latest "fatal" rejection...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...75&key=2735564

This is one of those real judgement calls. It is a very pleasant image. But if you want to nit pick it I suppose I would say the combination of tight crop and side perspective make it somewhat uninteresting...lacking in visual drama, or some such. Personally I rather like it, but I like pix of Kiwi Rail because it is still on my bucket list so I may be biased.

John Russell - NZ 01-04-2017 10:10 AM

Thanks John.

Yes, but if we need "visual drama" and not too wide then I expect that we'll keep seeing lots of wedge shots on RP. Not everyone has S curves or a canyon railroad just down the road.

We've got a bit off-track again but you mention bias which I suspect is the key word in all of this. We all have it. And thanks for your bias.

As already mentioned, acceptance of cloudy day photos is likely linked to the "interestingness." It might also be linked to the number of photo submissions and rejections or how popular the photographer is. I'm not into "click bait" photos and, thanks to the dismal following of RP here, it's a rare occasion to get a favorite from a NZ member. Not easy to crack the site average for views.


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