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-   -   Feedback on my newest Reject! (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9315)

kml928 03-18-2009 03:58 AM

Feedback on my newest Reject!
 
lol, I think I may finally have finally hit on every rejection reason now!

Ok, seriously, I thought if the lead engine was not obstructed the images were acceptable. There is maybe a distant twig or two in the way, would this work if the lead engine was maybe 10 to 20 feet further down the track and out in the open slightly more?

A very recent top 4 image had just as much obstructing objects (but of course a much better photo than mine here), so not sure where the line is drawn for this rejection reason.

I could reshoot this shot easily enough, but cant get much closer to the right (edge of the small cliff next to me on the right>) or much higher.

Maybe I can sneak down at night and saw some of those nasty small trees down!

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1023163417

cblaz 03-18-2009 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kml928 (Post 85505)
There is maybe a distant twig or two in the way, would this work if the lead engine was maybe 10 to 20 feet further down the track and out in the open slightly more?

Bingo! You got nice light and a nice spot. Let the engine move into the clear a bit and you got a winner. Nice shot.

- Chris

jnohallman 03-18-2009 04:09 AM

I think the way to look at this rejection is not as "obstructing objects" but as "foreground clutter". The issue isn't so much that the brush in the foreground obstructs the view of the train (or lead engine in this case), as that there is so much of it and it is so prominent in the photo that it distracts from the train, drawing the attention of the viewer to that lower left corner instead.

Jon

nanshant 03-18-2009 04:47 AM

I second Chris' response. That's a killer spot you have there and a great catch as well. Maybe go with a slightly wider angle to get more of the train in the clear. If you can manage that you should be good to go.

kml928 03-18-2009 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 85510)
Bingo! You got nice light and a nice spot. Let the engine move into the clear a bit and you got a winner. Nice shot.

- Chris

Ok, the only problem is the catenary supports, you can tell by the ones in the image how far apart they are, so there is another one to the right about 40 feet out of view in this shot, do you think if the lead engine was about 20 feet farther to the right the shot might work? That would make at least the lead engine completely free of any obstructions/clutter.

After about 40 feet it passes another catenary support and you cant go much wider with the lens without losing the nuclear towers on the left side.

kml928 03-18-2009 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnohallman (Post 85511)
I think the way to look at this rejection is not as "obstructing objects" but as "foreground clutter". The issue isn't so much that the brush in the foreground obstructs the view of the train (or lead engine in this case), as that there is so much of it and it is so prominent in the photo that it distracts from the train, drawing the attention of the viewer to that lower left corner instead.

Jon

Hey Jon, I see what you mean, great point. Maybe instead of having that patch on the lower left in the shot, I could try to actually stand on that spot for the shot, that would eliminate any foreground objects that are distracting as well as maybe getting about 10-15 feet more of the lead engine in the clearing down there.

I am sort of thinking the rejection was for that clump of dead brush in the whole lower left of the image now, not the thin brush along the train in spots, I think you are right.

jnohallman 03-18-2009 05:56 AM

I'd certainly be interested to see what result shifting your vantage point to that spot produces! I really don't think you're far off with this shot. It's a neat picture.

Jon

cblaz 03-18-2009 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kml928 (Post 85524)
I am sort of thinking the rejection was for that clump of dead brush in the whole lower left of the image now, not the thin brush along the train in spots, I think you are right.

I disagree. Yes, those dead twigs/weeds are a distraction, but the rejection reason was for the "foreground clutter" blocking the fuel tank of the standard cab SD70 and the thin branches blocking the rear of the 2770. If tree branches are blocking any part of a lead engine, the photo gets dinged, especially a photo like this, where it seems that letting the train run into the shot a bit more rectifies the situation.

However, it has been pointed out that the twigs/weeds at left are unsightly, so let's fix both. In looking at aerial photos of the location, it seems like a few steps to the right along the hillside should clear the dead twigs/weeds at left. Also, since the area seems pretty open, bring a stepladder. The extra few feet it will provide will help immensely. In addition, it doesn't seem like that is anyone's property or that they are some sort of exotic plant, so bring some clippers and take care of the twigs yourself.

- Chris

kml928 03-18-2009 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 85533)
I disagree. Yes, those dead twigs/weeds are a distraction, but the rejection reason was for the "foreground clutter" blocking the fuel tank of the standard cab SD70 and the thin branches blocking the rear of the 2770. If tree branches are blocking any part of a lead engine, the photo gets dinged, especially a photo like this, where it seems that letting the train run into the shot a bit more rectifies the situation.

However, it has been pointed out that the twigs/weeds at left are unsightly, so let's fix both. In looking at aerial photos of the location, it seems like a few steps to the right along the hillside should clear the dead twigs/weeds at left. Also, since the area seems pretty open, bring a stepladder. The extra few feet it will provide will help immensely. In addition, it doesn't seem like that is anyone's property or that they are some sort of exotic plant, so bring some clippers and take care of the twigs yourself.

- Chris

Lol, I might just do that with the clippers although people are gonna be wondering wtf I'm doin out there haha.

lock4244 03-18-2009 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cblaz (Post 85533)
However, it has been pointed out that the twigs/weeds at left are unsightly, so let's fix both. In looking at aerial photos of the location, it seems like a few steps to the right along the hillside should clear the dead twigs/weeds at left. Also, since the area seems pretty open, bring a stepladder. The extra few feet it will provide will help immensely. In addition, it doesn't seem like that is anyone's property or that they are some sort of exotic plant, so bring some clippers and take care of the twigs yourself.

- Chris

Couldn't agree more. I carry a three-step in my trunk and have lost count of how many times it's come in handy for getting above annoying little distractions like bushes and branches and fences. Even just to add a little elevation for the heck of it.

Also in my trunk... a large pair of clippers for small branches, and an axe for larger ones. In fact, I was pruning this past weekend. I pruned about 12 trees at the base! Only have about 100 more to go to open up a shot. This work will go faster when I pony up for a chainsaw. FWIW, I'm not cutting down trees on someones lawn or in a park, but rather out in the country on RR RofW... and trust me, they don't care one bit. Foreman in a hyrailer waves as he passes :lol:

Mark Bau 03-18-2009 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lock4244 (Post 85565)
Couldn't agree more. I carry a three-step in my trunk and have lost count of how many times it's come in handy for getting above annoying little distractions like bushes and branches and fences. Even just to add a little elevation for the heck of it.

Also in my trunk... a large pair of clippers for small branches, and an axe for larger ones. In fact, I was pruning this past weekend. I pruned about 12 trees at the base! Only have about 100 more to go to open up a shot. This work will go faster when I pony up for a chainsaw. FWIW, I'm not cutting down trees on someones lawn or in a park, but rather out in the country on RR RofW... and trust me, they don't care one bit. Foreman in a hyrailer waves as he passes :lol:

I think that you need to rethink your approach to the hobby of rail photography if you think that you have to chop trees down to get a decent photo. Haven't you ever heard of the old photographers saying "Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints" You have no right to chop trees down on private property even if the road foreman thinks its OK. It's people like you that give photographers/railfans a bad name.

Ween 03-18-2009 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau (Post 85569)
I think that you need to rethink your approach to the hobby of rail photography if you think that you have to chop trees down to get a decent photo. Haven't you ever heard of the old photographers saying "Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints" You have no right to chop trees down on private property even if the road foreman thinks its OK. It's people like you that give photographers/railfans a bad name.

Wow. I bet you're going to find yourself in the minority on this argument, especailly because he's not chopping down trees, he's getting rid of branches.

What if the branches are dead? Have you never stomped down some weeds to open up a shot? If so, what's the difference? What if the weeds were still alive?

Be careful when you throw out holier than thou blanket statements when you don't know all the facts.

EDIT: Also, the rules may also be different between Australia, Canada and the U.S., so keep that in mind too...

Mark Bau 03-18-2009 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ween (Post 85571)
Wow. I bet you're going to find yourself in the minority on this argument, especailly because he's not chopping down trees, he's getting rid of branches.

What if the branches are dead? Have you never stomped down some weeds to open up a shot? If so, what's the difference? What if the weeds were still alive?

Be careful when you throw out holier than thou blanket statements when you don't know all the facts.

EDIT: Also, the rules may also be different between Australia, Canada and the U.S., so keep that in mind too...

I think that you need to read the posts, I quote:

<<< I pruned about 12 trees at the base!>>>

Pruning trees to the base means chopping them down, not just removing dead branches. Would you like it if I came onto your property and "pruned" your trees at the base? Would you say that's OK? Railroad property is private property just like your property. Private property is private property anywhere in the world. Unless of course you are American and think that you can invade any country you feel like.

lock4244 03-18-2009 04:08 PM

Though I'm well aware of the old photographers addage, I make an exception for scrub trees and brush. It's annoying and somewhat impossible to work around. After years of putting up with it, I've finally decided that some shots that have been lost over the years are worth reclaiming, regardless of what others may think.

Where I'm doing this, it's pretty much no man's land. If you must think I'm giving other railfans a bad name, that's you right. To me, sneaking into a freight yard, climbing on equipment and signals, stealing souvenirs, that gives railfans a bad name. But trimming the verge? Seems minor to me, but opinions differ.

Joe the Photog 03-18-2009 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau (Post 85569)
I think that you need to rethink your approach to the hobby of rail photography if you think that you have to chop trees down to get a decent photo. Haven't you ever heard of the old photographers saying "Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints" You have no right to chop trees down on private property even if the road foreman thinks its OK.

I agree, Mark. Consider me part of the minority.


Joe

Ween 03-18-2009 05:32 PM

Quote:

Unless of course you are American and think that you can invade any country you feel like.<!-- / message -->
Wow again. Kind of an unecessay comment in relation to the argument at hand. Looks like someone has a chip on his shoulder toward Americans, but the last time I checked when I was overseas supporting the war, there were Australians there too, so...backhanded insult fail.

Ween 03-18-2009 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau (Post 85576)
Pruning trees to the base means chopping them down, not just removing dead branches.

Maybe your dictionaries are different down under, but:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prune

Quote:

  1. To cut off or remove dead or living parts or branches of (a plant, for example) to improve shape or growth.


lock4244 03-18-2009 05:58 PM

Ween, I was being a bit tounge in cheek there. I am indeed falling small trees... timber! In effect, pruning all the branches at once.

Ween 03-18-2009 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lock4244 (Post 85591)
Ween, I was being a bit tounge in cheek there. I am indeed falling small trees... timber! In effect, pruning all the branches at once.

Regardless, the intial reaction was that you were doing something wrong when there very easily could have been another explanation that wasn't wrong...I tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt especially before claiming someone's actions are responsible for giving railfans a bad name. See this thread as an example of giving someone the benefit of the doubt before making wild accusations:
http://forums.railpictures.net/showthread.php?t=9311

milwman 03-18-2009 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau (Post 85576)
I think that you need to read the posts, I quote:


Railroad property is private property just like your property. Private property is private property anywhere in the world. Unless of course you are American and think that you can invade any country you feel like.

There not trees there Sumac a weed tree, junk and or trash, The rest is a low blow. LOL

Mark Bau 03-18-2009 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ween (Post 85589)
Wow again. Kind of an unecessay comment in relation to the argument at hand. Looks like someone has a chip on his shoulder toward Americans, but the last time I checked when I was overseas supporting the war, there were Australians there too, so...backhanded insult fail.

The same sort of swaggering belligerence applies to both actions. (Thinking you can invade a sovereign nation or chopping trees down on private property) Railfans are persona non grata in most places these days largely because of the actions of a minority of fans that have ruined it for everyone else. People shouldn't even be on private, RR, property far less hacking trees down on RR property.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder toward anyone. I lived and worked in the US for 10 years and was quite glad when the chance came up to return home. As a railroader I have tolerated, in both countries, photographers trespassing on RR property but I draw the line at fans interfering in any way with the property or the operation.

JimThias 03-18-2009 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau (Post 85569)
Haven't you ever heard of the old photographers saying "Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints"

You know why old photographers say that? Because they didn't have trees and branches to clear out of the way back in the old days. All the stuff we're clearing now has grown up and out of control since the old days. :lol:

TheRoadForeman 03-18-2009 11:43 PM

Ok, put yourself in the Carriers shoes for a moment. Pruning and controlling vegetation is "harmless" right? Well, what if you get hurt while "cleaning up your shot" on company property? Guess what?, most people with their mentality want to sue the Carrier for neglegance! I stand firm on the no trespassing clause and I practice what I preach.

TheRoadForeman 03-18-2009 11:45 PM

I should say that most people that efrequent this forum are not railroaders, so, they would not fully understand their doings. Do this with our company= free ride downtown! We protect our assests! As trivial as this discussion has turned out to be, this is true with most non-Class 1's. Insurance premiums are high and lawsuits are a big problem.

lock4244 03-18-2009 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau (Post 85628)
The same sort of swaggering belligerence applies to both actions. (Thinking you can invade a sovereign nation or chopping trees down on private property) Railfans are persona non grata in most places these days largely because of the actions of a minority of fans that have ruined it for everyone else. People shouldn't even be on private, RR, property far less hacking trees down on RR property.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder toward anyone. I lived and worked in the US for 10 years and was quite glad when the chance came up to return home. As a railroader I have tolerated, in both countries, photographers trespassing on RR property but I draw the line at fans interfering in any way with the property or the operation.

If someone picks wild flowers or berries on RR property, the same heavy handed thinking applies, right? After all, they are displaying total disregard to the RR's property, regardless of the fact the RR neither planted them or profits from their sale. When out fanning, I sometimes pee on property that I do not own because I'm in the middle of nowhere and don't feel like driving 20 or 30 minutes to a loo... I must be a real arrogant SOB :evil:


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