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-   -   Rule Of Thirds Confusion (http://www.railpictures.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17259)

dnsommer2013 10-14-2014 11:18 PM

Rule Of Thirds Confusion
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hello everyone,

These two photos were not accepted because of Rule of Thirds issues. Can someone please explain it to me? I guess I don't get it! Also, can they be saved and re-submitted, or should I just forget about them?

Are there any other glaring flaws?

Thanks so much!

David

magicman_841 10-14-2014 11:28 PM

Hey, another foamer down in Ithaca.

The AMT shot could be a bit tighter. Cropping on all sides pretty much equally should get you into Acceptanceville.

The FL9 shot is a bit centered top to bottom. The train needs to go up or down in the frame (I'd make it go up). It also appears to be leaning to the right slightly.

miningcamper1 10-14-2014 11:39 PM

The dreaded Suggestion of Thirds again!

A quick look at today's new additions finds at least 14 shots with the locomotive pretty much vertically centered.

Consistent inconsistency, you can count on that here.

dnsommer2013 10-15-2014 02:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The first AMT photo was shot at 24mm and I think part of the problem is that there is some wide-angle distortion. So I just submitted this photo. Same train, but further away. The lens was zoomed out to 88mm for this one. Maybe it is a little better? Now the small fence next to the lead car is probably going to disqualify this shot, I suppose.

Anyway, when I use the crop tool the image is divided into six sections, keeping with I guess The Rule of Thirds. So what is it that I need to do? Make sure some of the train is in every box?

Thanks.

Greg P 10-15-2014 03:47 PM

I like the second one better.

If your using Photoshop elements, you can configure the crop tool to show you rule of thirds.

The second one, I wonder if the cut off piece of equipment is killing it.

dnsommer2013 10-15-2014 06:09 PM

Thanks,

I am using PS CS6 and LR5, but really I am only just learning how to use them.

The second photo also has been rejected. Reasons were: Awkward Composition. Rule of Thirds.

Maybe they explain it on Wikipedia!

Dave

miningcamper1 10-15-2014 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnsommer2013 (Post 181832)
The first AMT photo was shot at 24mm and I think part of the problem is that there is some wide-angle distortion. So I just submitted this photo. Same train, but further away. The lens was zoomed out to 88mm for this one. Maybe it is a little better? Now the small fence next to the lead car is probably going to disqualify this shot, I suppose.

The above shot is 'awkward' and rejected, but these accepted shots are not awkward? I guess I don't understand this parallel universe!:confused::confused::confused:

[photoid=502131] [photoid=502110]

Ron Flanary 10-16-2014 02:09 AM

The first one was slightly crooked. The second one is okay, but the front of the locomotive is a bit too far right---and there's nothing on the left to balance the shot. The rule of thirds is important, but it's equally important to find compositional balance in one's photography.

miningcamper1 10-16-2014 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Flanary (Post 181839)
The rule of thirds is important, but it's equally important to find compositional balance in one's photography.

The second AMT shot looks pretty balanced to me. I've noticed others have had trouble getting cab car shots on. Maybe the authorities just don't like them?

BobE 10-17-2014 03:31 AM

I think what you're asking is what's the application. If you're using the ROT grid with the PS crop tool, your subject should be more or less centered at the point where two of the lines intersect. With the AMT shot, that would roughly be between the headlights and above the coupler. Roughly. The FL9, the crosshairs would roughly the lower headlight. Roughly.

Ron's right, it's a compositional tool but it has to be adapted to the needs of the individual photo. The idea is create a visual imbalance that causes the viewer's eye to move through the scene and take it all in. Putting your subject at "dead center" means the eye isn't going to move. Or so I was taught 30+ years ago by my friend Petty Officer Gehri Weeks, Navy photojournalist.

The rule is a good starting point for photographers, but it isn't carved in stone. If you're talented – and I assume you are – you're going to start finding ways to break it in creative ways. Just for fun – and not for RP – try compositions where your subject is tightly packed into a corner or along one of the edges of the frame.

miningcamper1 10-17-2014 05:24 AM

That is one heck of a slippery "rule". As usual, today's accepted offerings include numerous centered and vertically centered shots.

dnsommer2013 10-17-2014 12:30 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks for your advice. The photo below was rejected today for the same reasons as the others - awkward composition and problems pertaining to the rule of thirds.

I like this photo. I think I should redo it with a slightly altered crop. Do you agree? Or is this picture flawed in other ways too?

Thanks Again!

Dave

JRMDC 10-17-2014 04:08 PM

a) I'm very surprised they didn't reject it for having a dark nose. That is coming the second time around. That appears to me not to be fixable in this case.

b) in this forum it is typical to link to the rejection rather than to attach a shot and write out the rejection reasons

miningcamper1 10-17-2014 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 181860)

b) in this forum it is typical to link to the rejection rather than to attach a shot and write out the rejection reasons

...which advice, if followed, renders the thread absolutely useless after 7 days because the photo has disappeared and no one knows what the discussion is about. And yes, I do occasionally look at threads that are over 7 days old.

bigbassloyd 10-17-2014 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miningcamper1 (Post 181861)
...which advice, if followed, renders the thread absolutely useless after 7 days because the photo has disappeared and no one knows what the discussion is about. And yes, I do occasionally look at threads that are over 7 days old.

:confused: You may be the only one. I like having the rejection link posted for various reasons and seven days is about six too many for most posts in this place.




Loyd L.

miningcamper1 10-17-2014 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 181862)
:confused: You may be the only one. I like having the rejection link posted for various reasons and seven days is about six too many for most posts in this place.




Loyd L.

I don't like disappearing photos here or anywhere else.

JRMDC 10-17-2014 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd (Post 181862)
:confused: You may be the only one. I like having the rejection link posted for various reasons and seven days is about six too many for most posts in this place.

What he said. Plus, people make mistakes, they forget to mention something, attach the wrong version of the image, etc. If someone is asking about a rejection I want to see what the screener saw and read the screener's response.

miningcamper1 10-17-2014 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 181864)
I want to see what the screener saw and read the screener's response.

LOL.
How many of the unlucky get more than the canned screener response?
On initial rejections it's 0% of the time for me.

JRMDC 10-17-2014 11:35 PM

Mining, I didn't mean the written response; I've never seen one myself, as far as I recall. I gave the reason why I want to see the canned response through the link.,

JimThias 10-17-2014 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miningcamper1 (Post 181861)
...which advice, if followed, renders the thread absolutely useless after 7 days because the photo has disappeared and no one knows what the discussion is about.

Soooooo....post the rejection link AND attach the image? http://www.bdwf.net/forum/images/smi...rug%5B1%5D.gif

Ron Flanary 10-19-2014 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobE (Post 181856)
I think what you're asking is what's the application. If you're using the ROT grid with the PS crop tool, your subject should be more or less centered at the point where two of the lines intersect. With the AMT shot, that would roughly be between the headlights and above the coupler. Roughly. The FL9, the crosshairs would roughly the lower headlight. Roughly.

Ron's right, it's a compositional tool but it has to be adapted to the needs of the individual photo. The idea is create a visual imbalance that causes the viewer's eye to move through the scene and take it all in. Putting your subject at "dead center" means the eye isn't going to move. Or so I was taught 30+ years ago by my friend Petty Officer Gehri Weeks, Navy photojournalist.

The rule is a good starting point for photographers, but it isn't carved in stone. If you're talented and I assume you are you're going to start finding ways to break it in creative ways. Just for fun and not for RP try compositions where your subject is tightly packed into a corner or along one of the edges of the frame.

Excellent points. It shouldn't be called the "rule" of thirds, since it's more like a "suggestion" of thirds. I center subjects in the frame all the time, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Each composition is different---and folks should be creative in finding those compositions.

I will go back to my point that a scene should have some visual balance that makes it interesting. And---some scenes are just not appealing at all, no matter what you try---vertical, horizontal, center of interest on left, right...it just doesn't matter. No matter how skilled you are as a photographer, you might not be able to bring home a winner in every case.

CSX1702 10-19-2014 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias (Post 181877)
Soooooo....post the rejection link AND attach the image? http://www.bdwf.net/forum/images/smi...rug%5B1%5D.gif

That would make too much sense, sir. ;-)

dnsommer2013 10-19-2014 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobE (Post 181856)
I think what you're asking is what's the application. If you're using the ROT grid with the PS crop tool, your subject should be more or less centered at the point where two of the lines intersect. With the AMT shot, that would roughly be between the headlights and above the coupler. Roughly. The FL9, the crosshairs would roughly the lower headlight. Roughly.

Ron's right, it's a compositional tool but it has to be adapted to the needs of the individual photo. The idea is create a visual imbalance that causes the viewer's eye to move through the scene and take it all in. Putting your subject at "dead center" means the eye isn't going to move. Or so I was taught 30+ years ago by my friend Petty Officer Gehri Weeks, Navy photojournalist.

The rule is a good starting point for photographers, but it isn't carved in stone. If you're talented and I assume you are you're going to start finding ways to break it in creative ways. Just for fun and not for RP try compositions where your subject is tightly packed into a corner or along one of the edges of the frame.

Thanks Bob! I will begin using your instructions as a reference point. I'd kind of like to master "the basic train shot" before going off on tangents, as I can't even seem to get that right on a consistent basis!

dnsommer2013 10-19-2014 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC (Post 181860)
a) I'm very surprised they didn't reject it for having a dark nose. That is coming the second time around. That appears to me not to be fixable in this case.

b) in this forum it is typical to link to the rejection rather than to attach a shot and write out the rejection reasons

Thanks for the tip. I guess I spent some time looking for answers before posting and all the photos were gone, rendering the info close to useless. But I will make sure to participate the way most that's most widely accepted, and attach links to the rejected photos.

However what you see here are the exact same photos I submitted. I have no axe to grind by falsifying info. I am just trying to learn.

I think I can brighten the nose somewhat. Maybe.

dnsommer2013 10-19-2014 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Flanary (Post 181892)
Excellent points. It shouldn't be called the "rule" of thirds, since it's more like a "suggestion" of thirds. I center subjects in the frame all the time, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Each composition is different---and folks should be creative in finding those compositions.

I will go back to my point that a scene should have some visual balance that makes it interesting. And---some scenes are just not appealing at all, no matter what you try---vertical, horizontal, center of interest on left, right...it just doesn't matter. No matter how skilled you are as a photographer, you might not be able to bring home a winner in every case.

Thanks. This is good advice. It can be hard to give up on a photo. I seldom bring home winners, to be sure. In fact I had a long spell of rejections that lasted a few years. Then I got a few accepted and I became re-inspired. But I guess these just won't cut it, despite the time and effort spent in capturing them! I guess I'm gonna have to do more than stand beside a sunny, unobstructed stretch of unremarkable track!


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