Old 09-02-2009, 08:21 PM   #1
bbrant
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Default Bad Color Rejection

All,

Can someone help me out with this rejection for bad color? I got hit with this rejection twice now. The first time I thought it was due to a red tint so I used the Auto Color option in Photoshop CS4 but still got hit with the bad color rejection.

In looking at the image, the only thing I can think of is the nose of the lead unit or the sky being blue, although the shot was taken at night but on the tungsten white balance setting. Are either of these what's causing the rejection or is there something else I'm missing? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=727029&key=0

Thanks!
Brian
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:44 PM   #2
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Brian,

I'd let this shot go. It's out of focus and suffers from foreground clutter.

Nice attempt, however!

Chase
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:35 PM   #3
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Chase,

I didn't notice that it was out of focus so thanks for being a second set of eyes. This one wasn't accepted so that's all the more reason to go out and try again.

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Old 09-03-2009, 01:21 AM   #4
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Whoa whoa whoa, before we "let this one go", we need to address the color issue. It doesn't really look out of focus to me, just washed out, which can give you that out of focus look. A long exposure with "mother nature" as your only light source will not render color all too well. Was this moon light? Or just a really long damn exposure at high ISO? Either way, there is no distinguishing color here. The blue and gray almost blend together. Try again, but under lights if possible.

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Old 09-03-2009, 03:16 AM   #5
Dennis A. Livesey
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Cool

I think the moonlight is a great idea.

But not in this shot.

Make a composition first that will get in here (i.e., no foreground clutter or bad cropping because you are too tight or have too much ground)

Then you will have to deal with the light pollution ruining the moonlight. The sky is too bright thus we can't really see the stars streaks. The locos paint, rather than look moonlit and interesting, is just ugly.

Muck with the exposure to get a darker night or go where there is less light pollution. Maybe backlight the locomotives with the actual moon?

I applaud your attempt of thinking out of the box! Get it right and you will have a winner.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:51 PM   #6
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Ben\Dennis,

Thanks for your input. I took this photo the other night when it was almost a full moon so all the photos I tried were in the 2 - 3 minute range.

As for being blurred, I can't really do any more sharpening as I was hit with a too much noise rejection with this earlier. As a side note, I also got a horizon not level rejection, which I believe is now corrected so I can't do a whole lot more cropping either.

If I have the time, I can try to work with the shot. If not, I can go out and try again.

Thanks guys!

Brian
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asis80 View Post
Whoa whoa whoa, before we "let this one go", we need to address the color issue. It doesn't really look out of focus to me, just washed out, which can give you that out of focus look. A long exposure with "mother nature" as your only light source will not render color all too well. Was this moon light? Or just a really long damn exposure at high ISO? Either way, there is no distinguishing color here. The blue and gray almost blend together. Try again, but under lights if possible.

Ben
Ben, it could be washed out, but look at the weeds in the foreground. They lack detail. Also, look at the handrails on the GP40-2 and the slug. They do not appear to be very crisp. I'm pretty certain this shot is atleast, slightly out of focus.

I really like the stars in the background though, and the moon made the sky pretty attractive. I'd say give it another shot!

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Old 09-03-2009, 07:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asis80 View Post
Whoa whoa whoa, before we "let this one go", we need to address the color issue. It doesn't really look out of focus to me, just washed out, which can give you that out of focus look.
[shakes head] Ben, Ben, Ben. Is it out of focus? Yes, definitely. With little to no light around, it is almost impossible to get a shot focused perfectly manually. Also, a very shallow DoF, which was most likely used here, will also cause the out of focus look (note how the engines gets fuzzier as they get further from the camera as well as how blurry the background building is).

Quote:
Originally Posted by asis80 View Post
A long exposure with "mother nature" as your only light source will not render color all too well. Was this moon light? Or just a really long damn exposure at high ISO? Either way, there is no distinguishing color here. The blue and gray almost blend together. Try again, but under lights if possible.
Now onto your next statement. Yes, the moon will not render color all that well, but so what? Isn't that fixable in Photoshop? Any photographer can go into PS and adjust the contrast and color tones to get the desired look they want with a shot lit by the moon. Just ask these guys:

Image © Chris Starnes
PhotoID: 11636
Photograph © Chris Starnes

Image © Kevin Farlow
PhotoID: 228427
Photograph © Kevin Farlow

Image © Casey Thomason
PhotoID: 89007
Photograph © Casey Thomason

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©


The element that makes the moonlit shots the most interesting is how you can see the stars in the sky. Put a light source on the engine and they disappear. So, no, not every train needs to be under lights for a night shot to work, and hopefully more people will start using the moon to light their subjects.

Probably one of the most successful railfan photographers using this technique nowadays is Kit Courter and his LunarLight Photography site (http://home.earthlink.net/~kitathome/LunarLight/moonlight_gallery/index.htm). He has some landscape and building stuff mixed in with the train shots as well. One of my favorites: http://home.earthlink.net/~lunarlightphoto/moonlight2/pages/2006-07-D-81982001.htm

Lastly, the original photographer's caption isn't totally correct. While the moon is directly above lighting most of the engines, there is a sodium vapor light off to the right of the image, casting light onto the nose of the 6918, hence the warmer yellow there.

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Old 09-03-2009, 07:42 PM   #9
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I stand corrected. I'm just going to stop giving my opinion, maybe that will help these guys better than the advice or opinion I give anymore.

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Old 09-03-2009, 10:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asis80 View Post
A long exposure with "mother nature" as your only light source will not render color all too well.

Ben
Ummm, what? Explain. What color is "mother nature" in this case the moon? I would have thought it is the same white light we get from the sun.
Image © Bicot (Marc Caya)
PhotoID: 208521
Photograph © Bicot (Marc Caya)
Ignore the cars. Look at the engine and the rest of the scene. Looks like daylight to me albeit without the contrast.
Image © Sean Moran
PhotoID: 165459
Photograph © Sean Moran
Reds, greens, browns all look good to me.
Image © Craig Williams
PhotoID: 251924
Photograph © Craig Williams
I believe a flashlight was used to light the signals but everything else is provided by the moon.
Image © Alex Ramos
PhotoID: 267104
Photograph © Alex Ramos
One of the best to use "mother nature"s lighting often.
Image © Chris Starnes - RailCanon
PhotoID: 64175
Photograph © Chris Starnes - RailCanon
And my favorite.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:57 AM   #11
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[shakes head] Ben, Ben, Ben. Is it out of focus? Yes, definitely. With little to no light around, it is almost impossible to get a shot focused perfectly manually. Also, a very shallow DoF, which was most likely used here, will also cause the out of focus look (note how the engines gets fuzzier as they get further from the camera as well as how blurry the background building is).
Chris,

I missed seeing the second engine was out of focus. I was making sure the lead engine looked good and I completely overlooked the other loco and other items in the photo.

From where I stood, other than the moonlight, there wasn't any other light to go by so I took several other "test" pictures and adjusted based on what I saw on the camera's LCD.

After reading the replies the best thing I can do is use the information to correct my mistakes and try it again.

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Old 09-04-2009, 03:25 AM   #12
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I stand corrected. I'm just going to stop giving my opinion, maybe that will help these guys better than the advice or opinion I give anymore.

Ben
Ben -

Not too long ago I remember reading some of your posts asking for help and since then you've made some really nice improvements. To me that shows that you put to use the advice given to you. If you can share some of your knowledge, by all means do so. To me, I appreciate the input from others who know more than me (which includes you and practially everyone else ) and I'm sure you felt the same when you first started uploading images here. To me, any constructive offerings of help are always appreciated.

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Old 09-04-2009, 03:45 AM   #13
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I stand corrected. I'm just going to stop giving my opinion, maybe that will help these guys better than the advice or opinion I give anymore.

Ben
Ben, your opinion is just as valuable as anyone's here.

Perhaps more so with 3 PCA's this week!

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Old 09-04-2009, 04:51 AM   #14
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I missed seeing the second engine was out of focus. I was making sure the lead engine looked good and I completely overlooked the other loco and other items in the photo.

From where I stood, other than the moonlight, there wasn't any other light to go by so I took several other "test" pictures and adjusted based on what I saw on the camera's LCD.
Trust me, Brian, I understand your pain. We've all been out on a pitch-black night trying to focus correctly. One of the tricks I learned was to carry a flashlight in the car at all times. Just a little bit of light on the engine will help. Get a big enough flashlight, 1 to 2 million candle power, and you can light that sucker up by yourself.

Also, what was your F-stop for this shot? If it was wide open, like 2.8 or lower, that might be part of the problem as well, especially for the stuff further back in the shot. Since you're just using the moonlight, and it seems like a pretty safe place to be a night, close your aperture down a little and adjust the shutter speed accordingly.

Don't take my advise the wrong way, I don't hate the shot. I actually think it's a really good idea, and if you live close by, probably something you can replicate fairly easily. I'm just throwing out suggestions to help you out in the future. Good luck.

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Old 09-04-2009, 12:57 PM   #15
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Chris,

Thanks again for the reply. This particular shot may be hard to reproduce since the engines aren't normally left at this location overnight. However, they aren't kept too far away so another night shot attempt is a definate possibility. Or I could just "test drive" the units to this spot. How would the red & blue lights from a police car help light the scene?

Seriously though, I considered shining my headlights on the engines but ultimately didn't due to concerns of the reflectors on the units causing too much of a glare. Thanks for the flashlight tip. I would've never thought of that and will have to give it a try.

As for my camera settings, ISO was 100 at F4 and the exposure was about 3 minutes.

Thanks for the reply and advice!

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