Old 06-09-2005, 11:47 PM   #1
cometv
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Default Straight talk

I've been photographing trains since 1980 and I don't cry over rejections (and there have been more than a few) but I have to say this about the screening process: I'd appreciate straight talk.

http://www.railpictures.net/images/r....JPG.20283.jpg

This was originally rejected for being oversharpened. In my appeal, which was really more of an appeal for a solid explanation of the rejection, I asked whether this shot was worthy of a re-scan. I was told I was better off rescanning the image and resubmitting it. So I rescanned the Kodachrome and softened up the unsharp mask in Photoshop Elements and resubmitted the results. Now I get a rejection due to "bad angle". What the hell does that mean? Furthermore and closer to the chase, if they didn't like the shot initially just tell me and I wouldn't have wasted everyone's time resubmitting.

Thanks for listening to my first and probably last rant in this forum.

Donny
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Old 06-09-2005, 11:50 PM   #2
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Hi Donny, I have found that if a photo has several reasons for rejection, such as yours here, they still only give one reason. Sometimes you find the other reasons on your appeals or when you resubmit. Unfortunately, that is just how the game is played. The bad angle rejection was likely because it is a 3/4 angle of a rear end of an engine. But that is likely the issue here, that you had several reasons for rejection, and discovered them the way you did.
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:12 AM   #3
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Thanks, 4kv. My appeal on the second submission was accepted and that was only an appeal for a concrete explanation. Even though I made the grade in the final analysis, I'd still appreciate a higher degree of frankness. You know, bottom line it to me: "Fix this up a bit and you're good to go" or "This just isn't going to make it". I'm a big boy after 38 years. Possibly a little too big. I can handle it.
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:13 AM   #4
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Actually, I that pic should have been rejected for "Hideous Subject".

Nice shot BTW.
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:24 AM   #5
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For the most part, the screeners don't have the option of selecting multiple reasons for rejection. A screener might look at a photo and see 3 or 4 problems. However, they can only choose 1. When I look at this photo, I see a photo of the rear of a locomotive. That probably makes it a "borderline" image from the start. Also, it isn't level. Look the the frame edge against the vertical lines on the building. I also notice that the trucks are so dark that little if any detail is visible.
However, I see that it was accepted. I think this is the first photo of these locomotives in the database. I'm sure that was an important factor in the photo being accepted !
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpalmer
For the most part, the screeners don't have the option of selecting multiple reasons for rejection. A screener might look at a photo and see 3 or 4 problems. However, they can only choose 1.
Why is that so?, Do they have to pay from their pocket to give all the reasons? They should be giving all the reasons so that the photographer knows whether to resubmit or to forget.
I know in some sites(Jetphotos) they give personal remarks also ie, the screener himself types the exact reason for rejection and also more than one reason for rejection.
Here the screeners are a bit sadistic, in my opinion.
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpalmer
For the most part, I think the screeners don't have the option of selecting multiple reasons for rejection. A screener might look at a photo and see 3 or 4 problems. However, they can only choose 1. When I look at this photo, I see a photo of the rear of a locomotive. That probably makes it a "borderline" image from the start. I also see that it isn't level. Look the the frame edge against the vertical lines on the building. I also notice that the trucks are so dark that little if any detail is visible. Even if the image wasn't "oversharpened", these other issues would probably prevent it from being accepted.
I have problems with this also... I can't take time uploading multiple times, filling out the form every time I get a rejection. I'll resubmit once-that's it.

What you mention above should be taken care of in one shot by the screeners. If the rejection reason is done by software (I wish they would just tell us how it works) then why not a note? I've had favorable comments attached to the acceptance emails from screeners) I agree with cometv-just say it outright if it is not the type of pic they want on the site, instead of 'bad motive' for example. I still haven't figured out what that means. Every photographer has a 'motive' for shooting a subject.

I'm not complaining-quite a few of my shots get accepted-but I-and most of us, I am sure-would like to see the process streamlined so we don't spend most of our RP time re-uploading and more time enjoying the pics.

JMHO.

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Old 06-10-2005, 03:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Even though I made the grade in the final analysis, I'd still appreciate a higher degree of frankness. You know, bottom line it to me: "Fix this up a bit and you're good to go" or "This just isn't going to make it".
That would be nice, but keep this in mind:

1) The screener's are all unpaid volunteers
2) They screen hundreds and hundreds of shots daily
3) As 4kV mentioned, they only have one option to chose when rejecting a photo.

As nice as a personal explanation would be, it would be impractical in terms of man-hours and time. If you want more feedback or straight talk, post a link to your rejects in the forums, and you'll get alot more feedback from a variety of sources...
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:20 AM   #9
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As usual, Ween hit the nail on the head. As much as I would like for everyone to get a detailed explanation of their photos it simply isn't possible for us to do that. We all lead lives outside of this website and generally don't have the time to devote, which doing that would require. If you are willing to learn from the rejections and improve your material we will be glad to work with you. Unfortunately, the few that ARE willing to learn get mixed in with the whiners who would rather complain about the crew rather than address the problems themselves.

For circumstances such as this in the future, it may be best if you email the editors (via the contact us page) for a more detailed explanation. It may take a while, but we will respond.
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:37 AM   #10
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First off, thank you Chris K. I always wanted to know what the screeners screen looked like. I also want to thank everyone who makes this site possible. I really love what it has become, and truly look forward to viewing the site everyday. Railpictures has given me a wonderful outlet for my hobby.

Thanks Guys!

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Old 06-10-2005, 03:46 AM   #11
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Here's a screenshot of the screening page, with the rejection menu opened to show how the reasons are selected. As you can see, using the pulldown menu, only one rejection reason can be applied to each photo.

The system at JetPhotos.Net is different, with each rejection reason having its own 'tick box,' so that multiple reasons are easy to select.

I would like to implement that here, but time for me is an issue. I work a full time job, and also run a total of four websites that average close to 100,000 visitors a day between them.

Getting the new type of screening page in place here is one of my priorities here, though, so please be a little patient with us while we try to improve the service!
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:06 AM   #12
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Thanks for showing the screening screen Chris. Pretty cool system how it works. Always wondered what it looked like
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Old 06-10-2005, 05:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD70MAC
Thanks for showing the screening screen Chris. Pretty cool system how it works. Always wondered what it looked like
Likewise... thanks for the screenshot, Chris-now we know for sure how it works-thanks for sharing that and mentioning improvements also.

Usually if I have a shot I want to share bad enough I'll ask for feedback in the appeal anyway and for the most part get a comment that'll help the fix, or I put it up in the forum for comments. Works for me!

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Old 06-10-2005, 09:08 AM   #14
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yea i can now know wats happening to my pix
thanks man for showing us this nice page
also i think that u will see alot of pix from egypt in this coming nice summer
mohamed
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Old 06-10-2005, 02:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Starnes
As usual, Ween hit the nail on the head. As much as I would like for everyone to get a detailed explanation of their photos it simply isn't possible for us to do that. We all lead lives outside of this website and generally don't have the time to devote, which doing that would require. If you are willing to learn from the rejections and improve your material we will be glad to work with you. Unfortunately, the few that ARE willing to learn get mixed in with the whiners who would rather complain about the crew rather than address the problems themselves.

For circumstances such as this in the future, it may be best if you email the editors (via the contact us page) for a more detailed explanation. It may take a while, but we will respond.

Yes, we ALL have lives outside the internet so why not have a rejection category that would suggest whether or not the image is truly desireable for rp.net and save people the effort of uploading twice and you the screener the task of screeening it twice?

When I uploaded the shot initially and got rejected for "oversharpened", I took a good look at it and agreed that I did over-sharpen it. Now anyone here who shoots Kodachrome knows what a chore it can be to get the colors just right with a scanner so I used the appeal form to ask the screener if this shot was worth a rescan or not. The screener said it was so I re-scan and re-edit and then get rejected for "bad angle", which is a new one for me. At least I've never been knocked down for "common power"!

Now how hard would it be to list multiple rejection reasons so the photographer could either fix all of what's wrong with the shot and get it to acceptable standards or just realize the shot's hopeless and forget about it? Wouldn't this save everyone involved time and effort?

Thanks,
Donny
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Old 06-10-2005, 02:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cometv

Now how hard would it be to list multiple rejection reasons so the photographer could either fix all of what's wrong with the shot and get it to acceptable standards or just realize the shot's hopeless and forget about it? Wouldn't this save everyone involved time and effort?

Thanks,
Donny

Chris K. stated above the he would like to get that option going soon, so hopefully that will be the case.
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Old 06-11-2005, 03:48 AM   #17
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First of all I would like to apologise for the negative comments made by me against the crew.I didn't intend to be offensive but sincerely wished some enhancement in the features that are not available in this site but already exist in the sister site.
I really appreciate the time and effort put by all the crew of this site.

I am glad that Mr. Kilroy had looked into the situation and has promised for further improvement to make this site, which is an excellent one, even better. I am sure everyone will be pleased with the results.
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Old 06-11-2005, 02:46 PM   #18
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Will a picture get rejected if it is done by a certan camera? My friend and I have the same camera, and neither of us can get pictures uploaded.
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Old 06-11-2005, 03:59 PM   #19
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wats is the type of the camera that u use bnsf sammy
i think that im like u and yur friend im using focus 35mm and i canot get any pix of it uploaded and appeared in the site.
so should i use digital camera or any camera that have 2mp or high?
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Old 06-11-2005, 05:48 PM   #20
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Digital is really head and shoulders above film. But, if you have a photo that meets the requirements of the site, your chances increase to have the photo accepted.

It's not the camera that counts it is the content. If you do not know how to shoot pictures with a 35mm camera, chances are you won't know how to shoot pictures with a digital camera.

Also understand the learning curve involved with taking photos. I, myself am just beginning in this hobby and am learning how to improve my photo skills everyday. Just like the people who have over 300 photos on this site surely are.

You wouldn't expect someone who has never driven before to be able to navigate a freeway in rushhour traffic, it will be a learn as you go thing.
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Old 06-11-2005, 07:42 PM   #21
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I've had multiple-attempt rejections as well. Some things like bad scans can be fixed. Other things like bad angles can't.

Can the unfixable problems be listed first? I'd also like to avoid multiple attempts at fixing a photo that's going to be rejected regardless of what I do to it.
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Old 06-11-2005, 09:35 PM   #22
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Old 06-11-2005, 11:33 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Telesha
Digital is really head and shoulders above film.

My foot.....
Yeah, and the horse and carriage was better than the automobile!!!
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Old 06-12-2005, 02:30 AM   #24
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Screeners should really say all reasons and not only one. It is very annoying when you have fixed one and then it gets rejected again for another reason. This endless chain continues multiple times before it is accepted or uploader gives up. I think that saying all reasons at once could even save time.

Everyone wants to take good pictures, but I can say it requires a lot of work. Go out and take pictures about everything, everywhere. Learn to know how your camera copes with different weather and light conditions. Take even more pictures and try to learn how to compose pictures. You will learn that not every picture can be "good". Even after 5000 pictures you will find that only some 50 to 100 are "good", but don't let that depress you. Someone has said: "There are no good or bad pictures, only quick opinions".

I have took 9000 photos in last 3 years and I can say that taking pictures about railways can be very demanding sometimes. I usually take 5-20 minutes on searching for a good place and view to take pictures on.

Also I have to say I don't like strict cropping (there are expections). I do include the surrounding world in almost every picture. That is just because railways are an existing part of landscape and vice versa. Being dissentient is good.

Thats all folks!
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Old 06-12-2005, 04:38 AM   #25
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Default Straight Talk?

I realize that the screeners are all exceptionally busy, and this is in some case a second or even a third job. And as I've mentioned in several posts prior I highly appreciate the time you folks take to get only the best pictures uploaded.

With that said, I have to echo one of the comments in this thread. There are simply photos that cannot be saved, and there are others that have minor problems that can be corrected for acceptance.

It would be handy if at a minimum the rejection reasons be classified in some manner. For example:

CLASS 1: Rejections that can be corrected:

1) Unlevel
2) Cropping
3) Over/undersharpened
4) Over/underexposed

CLASS 2: Rejections that cannot be remedied:

1) Bad angle
2) Poor Lighting
3) Common Angle/Common Power

Obviously, this does not capture all the potential reasons for rejections, but hopefully I've given a logical line of thinking.

My rationale behind this is that it would provide contributors a baseline for an image to help determine if their image is worth resubmitting again.

The benefit added is screeners would not get buried in constant resubmissions of photos that never had a prayer to begin with. This will ultimately save their time, and the time of the contributor from trying to "overcorrect" an image for no plausible gain.

Just me rattling on.

Cheers
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