Old 07-27-2010, 08:08 PM   #1
Missabefan
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Default Some thoughts please

Group,

Is this shot worth an apeal or chalk it up as a Flickr addition?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=839188&key=0

It's really not a common shot because this train only ran three trips in the last four years and they may do it again in another four years. I get the whole cloudy/common reject overall but I thought maybe this shot worked as is.

Like I said thoughts welcomed

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Old 07-27-2010, 08:10 PM   #2
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Do you have the pixels to zoom in so you're closer tothe dude taking the picture?
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Old 07-27-2010, 08:11 PM   #3
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I think so but was trying to take and show the shot he was taking. Landscape, scenery etc. Was not really going for a close-up of him.
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Old 07-27-2010, 08:17 PM   #4
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I think the shot as is does not wor for RP. It's technically a really good shot. Exposure and focus are spot on. But by cropping it so losely, I don't know what to look at. It also accentuates the going away feel to the shot. As such, I think a crop more like the attached may work better. Might could be a litle looser than mine. Also, I totated thot CW .5% to line the edge of the loco up more right in my eyes
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:32 PM   #5
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I would like to know why some think that every image that gets uploaded to RP.net, in some way, belongs there.

There are some images that have no hope at all from the word "go".

The locomotive is dead center, leaving nothing but trees and tracks to the right. This would mean that 50% of the image is trees and empty track, and cropping just isn't going to do much for it.

And this statement,

"It's really not a common shot because this train only ran three trips in the last four years and they may do it again in another four years".

Makes it RP.net worthy????

I think not.

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Old 07-28-2010, 02:56 AM   #6
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TJ, fairly bold comments for a newcomer. Maybe not the best way to make friends here. May I suggest you get even ONE photo into the database before you feel the right to be so judgemental on here, especially of someone who has over 250 photos in the database. I like the photo but agree with Joe. If you can put more focus on the photographer leaning out the window and less on the dead space on the right side of the photo I think it stands a good chance.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:42 AM   #7
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Yup - fairly harsh, TJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJFarmer View Post
I would like to know why some think that every image that gets uploaded to RP.net, in some way, belongs there.
If you would like to know the answer to that question, start a new thread. Clearly Missabefan did not demand such.

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Originally Posted by TJFarmer View Post
The locomotive is dead center, leaving nothing but trees and tracks to the right. This would mean that 50% of the image is trees and empty track, and cropping just isn't going to do much for it.
There - we're back to the thread. Joe's edit works much better. You may even be able to go vertical. When the sky is dull or overcast, it's often best to compose the photo with the sky not visible.

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And this statement,

"It's really not a common shot because this train only ran three trips in the last four years and they may do it again in another four years".

Makes it RP.net worthy????

TJFarmer
You answered your own question.

As much as RP proclaims to be the site with "the best railroad photos on the 'net!", you will note best tends to go beyond the artistic and into the newsworthy as well. Note all the wrecks shots.

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Old 07-28-2010, 04:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJFarmer View Post
I would like to know why some think that every image that gets uploaded to RP.net, in some way, belongs there.


I think not.

TJFarmer
#1 When I upload an image, I do so with the idea that it will be accepted or else I wouldn't of wasted my time in doing so, furthermore, uploading rejected pictures on this forum is a great way to learn and get input from other photogs.

#2 You answered a lot of your own questions with "I think not"

As far as the image, I'm liking Joe's crop too, the photo definitely captures the human element of the railfan and definitely worth another attempt
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:04 AM   #9
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Well I guess TJFarmer is correct.

The shot sucks and has no place in the database of Railpictures.Net

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1254675841

Thanks to all who gave an opinion and advice!

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:08 AM   #10
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Well, that sucks. Not the shot, but the rejection. I'm not advocating screener roulette, but there may be some tweaking you could do with the shot after it sits for a while. There have been shots of mine that I knew had a chance somewhere, but I couldn't hit on it for weeks, months, even a year or two. It looks fine to me, but maybe down the road you'll have better luck with it.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:10 AM   #11
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While I'm at it here, can I get some input on this rejection.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=839363&key=0

Well sure it's a long way away but isn't that the point? A bird's eye view of the area as described in the comments.

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:30 AM   #12
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There are plenty of shots like your rejected image in the database which were not rejected for similar reasons. That implies an issue with screening consistency.

Honestly, I think there should be a new rejection called "I just don't like it".

Or the other hand, it could've been more accurately rejected as PEQ. It's an intresting birdseye but the subject (this being RP) are the trains and they do not have much appeal - as you state: "Not much going on here".

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:34 AM   #13
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I wonder if those SOO locos were in front of the auto racks if that may have made a difference.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
Well, that sucks. Not the shot, but the rejection. I'm not advocating screener roulette, but there may be some tweaking you could do with the shot after it sits for a while. There have been shots of mine that I knew had a chance somewhere, but I couldn't hit on it for weeks, months, even a year or two. It looks fine to me, but maybe down the road you'll have better luck with it.
Tastes differ. I find this shot to be PEQ through and through, the person shooting out of the window is not enough for me.

Perhaps that is because I realize, having gone through a bunch of my Chessie Steam Special shots, just how poor an angle it is to shoot out the window from a few cars back! The waste of film back then, aargh!

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Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
I wonder if those SOO locos were in front of the auto racks if that may have made a difference.
I didn't even see them! I think the problem is too much distant area up top. My eye heads off to the horizon and has a hard time returning to the yard. Perhaps a crop like this, getting rid of the "attractive nuisance" in the distance, might hold things together more.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missabefan View Post

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1254675841

Thanks to all who gave an opinion and advice!

Missabefan
That is a head scratcher. With the crop and color work, it's a colorful, good shot and has more interest to me than 98% of the SDW's. (sunny diesel wedgie) But then it does not appeal to the majority of the people who come to this site I guess.
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missabefan View Post
While I'm at it here, can I get some input on this rejection.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=839363&key=0

Well sure it's a long way away but isn't that the point? A bird's eye view of the area as described in the comments.
By just doing a quick search, I found over 20 of these bird's eye shots of Rice's Point. In almost of them, there was some sort of power entering, leaving, or moving cars around the yard. Why do we need another bird's eye shot of the yard with nothing going on when there's plenty of more interesting ones added already?

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Old 07-28-2010, 06:43 PM   #17
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Well I suppose we don't need another one then. I just figured a decent shot with good light of a small CP train yard and BNSF taconite dock was worthy of acceptance. Just like every other standard sunny diesel wedgie accepted daily. Do a search on almost anything and you can get several matches. How about UP 844 = 533 matches or SP 4449 = 593 matches. The recent additions to the database of the LTEX yard.

The shot wasn't about the CP power, it was about the scene. The yard, the sailboats, the taconite dock, the ships in the harbor. If I wanted the CP power closer, I would have gone down there and shot the wedgie.

As far as the guy taking the photo out the train I thought I would try something different. I noticed him taking a shot out the window and grabbed him doing it. Perfect light? No. Perfect picture? No. Does it work? I thought so. Just trying to again submit something other than the normal wedgie.

Back to the drawing board I guess.

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:07 PM   #18
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Yo!

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Old 07-28-2010, 07:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missabefan View Post
Well I suppose we don't need another one then. I just figured a decent shot with good light of a small CP train yard and BNSF taconite dock was worthy of acceptance. Just like every other standard sunny diesel wedgie accepted daily. Do a search on almost anything and you can get several matches. How about UP 844 = 533 matches or SP 4449 = 593 matches. The recent additions to the database of the LTEX yard.
The answer is to read what Chris said and then ... ignore him. RP is about uploading shots that a) you like and you want to show, and b) are acceptable to an RP screener imprecisely attempting to implement a subjective standard. [Corrected, as per Kevin below.]

IIRC Chris has made his argument before. Heck, I think I may have at some point! But ultimately it isn't about making the "best" possible RP, by his or my standard. So Chris' argument is directed toward a hypothetical RP that he would like to see, not the actual RP we have. RP does not care - in practice - about duplication across shots, as long as they are not submitted at the same time. (Frankly, it would take a LOT more volunteer labor to implement a no-near-duplicates standard, were RP to want that. Or screeners with very good image memory.)

Quote:
The shot wasn't about the CP power, it was about the scene. The yard, the sailboats, the taconite dock, the ships in the harbor. If I wanted the CP power closer, I would have gone down there and shot the wedgie.
That's good enough!

Quote:
As far as the guy taking the photo out the train I thought I would try something different. I noticed him taking a shot out the window and grabbed him doing it. Perfect light? No. Perfect picture? No. Does it work? I thought so. Just trying to again submit something other than the normal wedgie.
That's what matters, good attitude! I don't care for you result in this case, but so what.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
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RP is about uploading shots that a) you like and you want to show, and b) are acceptable to an RP screener attempting to imprecisely impose a subjective standard.
As we're all fond of saying: "Nicely captured!" The only modification I might make is transposing the words "attempting" and "imprecisely". I don't think the Screeners are trying to be imprecise with the standards....they're just doomed by their humanity to be that way.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cblaz View Post
By just doing a quick search, I found over 20 of these bird's eye shots of Rice's Point. In almost of them, there was some sort of power entering, leaving, or moving cars around the yard. Why do we need another bird's eye shot of the yard with nothing going on when there's plenty of more interesting ones added already?
Quote:
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The answer is to read what Chris said and then ... ignore him. RP is about uploading shots that a) you like and you want to show, and b) are acceptable to an RP screener attempting to imprecisely impose a subjective standard.

IIRC Chris has made his argument before. Heck, I think I may have at some point! But ultimately it isn't about making the "best" possible RP, by his or my standard. So his argument is directed toward a hypothetical RP that Chris would like to see, not the actual RP we have. RP does not care - in practice - about duplication across shots, as long as they are not submitted at the same time. (Frankly, it would take a LOT more volunteer labor to implement a no-near-duplicates standard, were RP to want that. Or screeners with very good image memory.)
Wow, J, just not even close to what I was getting at, but thanks for twisting around my post to make me look like an idiot. My main point wasn't about the duplication or screener standards (actually if you do a search for Rice's Point like I did, you would notice that this particular angle hasn't been added yet, most of the additions are a straight-on bird's eye angle).

My point was that in the other bird's eye shots of the yard, there's something going on in all of them, either engines moving around or unique weather or lighting conditions.

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Since this is downtown Duluth is surrounding by hills and the grain silos and coal dock aren't going anywhere, it shouldn't be that hard to redo this shot with something of interest going on. In fact, if there was an engine shuffling around that cut of autoracks, I'd have no problem with the shot. I just didn't think there was enough action to warrant an easily-repeatable shot getting accepted.

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Old 07-28-2010, 08:50 PM   #22
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Wow, J, just not even close to what I was getting at, but thanks for twisting around my post to make me look like an idiot.
See below
Quote:
My point was that in the other bird's eye shots of the yard, there's something going on in all of them, either engines moving around or unique weather or lighting conditions.
This type of photography being one that captures still frames, you don't actually know one way or the other whether those engines were moving at the time. That is true of most shots on RP, actually, strictly speaking, although in most cases we can infer movement or not with a varying degree of accuracy.

Quote:
I just didn't think there was enough action to warrant an easily-repeatable shot getting accepted.
This does get to my point, indirectly at least if not directly so. You say a better picture could be made. I agree. But should this particular image have been uploaded? I say yes, if Missabe wanted to, even if he has time/occasion in the next three months to do better. It meets (if the screeners say so, and I think now they have) a minimum standard. I think you would say no, do not upload. We disagree in what we think the quality threshold should be when there are similar images already present on RP. Or perhaps differently, perhaps not, you feel that others should adopt the standard you have presumably chosen for yourself.
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