Old 11-30-2010, 10:28 PM   #1
BurghMan
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Default Pan Shot Cropping Q

I would appreciate a little input. This pan shot was rejected for cropping. I did crop about 10% of the sides from the original shot because I didn't think the extra space did anything for the photo - plus the first car has motion blur from the pan. Should I try again with a little more space on either side of just give up on this one.

Thanks!

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=881459&key=0
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:30 PM   #2
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Too much mountain above the train.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:51 PM   #3
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I agree with Charles. Otherwise, I really like the shot.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:26 PM   #4
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I like the mountain. It shows the leaves nicely.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another, IMHO. Unless you have a pole right thought the nose of the engine! -SG
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:46 PM   #5
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Why would you pick plain green grass over colored leaves? And why would you want to crop the train towards the top of the frame instead of towards the bottom?
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:49 PM   #6
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Because it looks lopsided to me as it is, plain pure and simple. Sometimes folks are so slavishly beholden to the rule of thirds that they forget to look at the balance of the image overall.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:10 AM   #7
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I see it's classified as an SD40-2, but with the original electrical cabinet filter box, early non extended range dynamic brakes, brake stand on rear platform, shorter frame, isn't this still an original SD40? That's the way I was classifying them even though they had something different stenciled on the cab. What is the correct way?

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Old 12-01-2010, 12:11 AM   #8
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If they have something stenciled on the cab, that is what they are.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another, IMHO. Unless you have a pole right thought the nose of the engine! -SG
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Z View Post
I see it's classified as an SD40-2, but with the original electrical cabinet filter box, early non extended range dynamic brakes, brake stand on rear platform, shorter frame, isn't this still an original SD40? That's the way I was classifying them even though they had something different stenciled on the cab. What is the correct way?

Chris Z
It is an ex-SD40 carbody by it has been upgraded to Dash-2 standards. For those who care, here is the history.

NS 3445
CR 6287
CNJ 3062
B&O 7483

As for the space on the top of the frame, I was trying to include the fall colors on the hill. I guess some of you like it - some of you don't.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:21 AM   #10
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I don't think the image has what it takes but if I was going to start and recrop it I would try to keep the color over the grass.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:22 AM   #11
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If they have something painted on the cab, that's what they are. (reference to railroad in upload data)
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Z View Post
I see it's classified as an SD40-2, but with the original electrical cabinet filter box, early non extended range dynamic brakes, brake stand on rear platform, shorter frame, isn't this still an original SD40? That's the way I was classifying them even though they had something different stenciled on the cab. What is the correct way?

Chris Z
It's actually a tough one... as it's really a rebuilt SD40. If you just go by stencil, the UP owns no ES44ACs... I hate to throw it back into the ether, but getting these things exactly correct is difficult. Honestly, if a modler was looking for an SD40-2 and clicked on the engines in the picture above, they would get false information on frame size, truck layout, etc.

And the more these things go through cotininous rebuilds, the more confusing and frustrating it all gets. (UP and former UP units marked GP38-2 can be any number of locomotives, the SP SD40-2Ms were built from SD39s, SD40s, SD45s and SD45Ms - but to me, seem easier to classify because the "M" keeps the searcher from thinking it's an SD40-2 - Union Pacific, if I am correct, reclassified them as SD40-2s when it took over the SP.)
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:23 AM   #13
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Oh, and BurghMan, I like the color, however I don't know if you will be able to keep what you have and get it on.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travsirocz View Post
I don't think the image has what it takes but if I was going to start and recrop it I would try to keep the color over the grass.
I don't disagree that the color is better, but if you cut out more grass, then you will have a train at the absolute bottom of the frame.

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Old 12-01-2010, 01:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurghMan View Post
It is an ex-SD40 carbody by it has been upgraded to Dash-2 standards. For those who care, here is the history.

NS 3445
CR 6287
CNJ 3062
B&O 7483
I don't see it as an ex-SD40. I still see everything external as an SD40. I don't see a single thing on the exterior that says it's an SD40-2. It even has the original SD40 style cab and has the shorter frame.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Z View Post
I don't see it as an ex-SD40. I still see everything external as an SD40. I don't see a single thing on the exterior that says it's an SD40-2. It even has the original SD40 style cab and has the shorter frame.
I defintely side with you on this Chris... but I almost think that we need to come up with a new system that reflects modifications. For my own personal records, I have taken to identifying the manufacturer. Thus, an EMD SD40-2 is what you and I expect. If it's a rebuild, I might have it something like this EMD/MK SD40M-2 (SD45) (indicating first built by EMD, rebuilt by Morrison Knudson, classifed as an SD40M-2, SD45 body). This is just a personal system, and not one that I am suggesting for others, but it allows me to figure out what I am looking at. In the case of the loco in the shot, I would track down who did the remanufacture first and then do something like this (if it turned out to be National Railroad Equipment in this hypothethical) EMD/NRE SD40-2 (SD40).
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:24 AM   #17
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I had a pan shot with a portion of a wagon rejected cropping so reprocessed without the wagon it was accepted so i suggest the following. My 0.02.

Last edited by mark woody; 05-27-2014 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:26 AM   #18
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I was really confused when I came across this. An NS SD40 marked as an SD40-2 and attached is also a 100% crop of that photo showing a CSXT label above the trucks. I forget now if that label referred to ownership or rebuilding.

Chris Z
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NS 3433 copy.jpg (758.1 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg NS SD40 3433 crop 100%.jpg (104.6 KB, 74 views)
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:43 AM   #19
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I think I have a handle on this one - maybe.

Anytime I see a bad crop on RP the first thing I
check to see is where did the subject end up in
the frame. Seems anything in the center is an
auto bad crop. Your in the center.

Now - my guess is if you placed the train lower
you'd have a dull white blown out sky and if you
went higher you'd have too much dull green
grass with little visual blur.

So what do you do? A note to the screener might
work as to why it's cropped as it is. Or, you can
shoot on a nice sunny blue sky day. Or, you can
go in even tighter - seems OK to center the subject
when there is no other secondary object in the scene.

As for designation - hard to tell without being able
to see the driving rods.

/Mitch
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:44 AM   #20
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Was it on long-term lease?
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Z View Post
I was really confused when I came across this. An NS SD40 marked as an SD40-2 and attached is also a 100% crop of that photo showing a CSXT label above the trucks. I forget now if that label referred to ownership or rebuilding.

Chris Z
In the mid-2000's (is that the right way to say that?) NS put electrical systems in some EMD's that came as kit components from CSX. There are quite a few rebuilt SD40-2's with that silver CSX plate and even more GP38-2's with an orange/white CSX sticker. I'm not sure what all components were replaced but I know one of them was a wheel slip sensor.

When labeling engine types, I try to stick with what the railroad calls it. The official NS designation is SD40-2, even if the external carbody retains the standard SD40 spotting featuers. Not that the other way is wrong, it's just how I look at it. Just like the whole cropping debate, there is no finite right or wrong - it's just personal opinion.

Appreciate all the replies!
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurghMan View Post
In the mid-2000's (is that the right way to say that?) NS put electrical systems in some EMD's that came as kit components from CSX. There are quite a few rebuilt SD40-2's with that silver CSX plate and even more GP38-2's with an orange/white CSX sticker. I'm not sure what all components were replaced but I know one of them was a wheel slip sensor.

When labeling engine types, I try to stick with what the railroad calls it. The official NS designation is SD40-2, even if the external carbody retains the standard SD40 spotting featuers. Not that the other way is wrong, it's just how I look at it. Just like the whole cropping debate, there is no finite right or wrong - it's just personal opinion.

Appreciate all the replies!
The little silver plate with CSX stenciling indicates a unit which had an EcoTrans K9 Auxillary Power Unit (APU) installed. CSX had an affiliation with EcoTrans. All units which recieved these APU's had the small plate installed on the frame which is stenciled with emissions related info.

NS has not upgraded any units with new electrical components from CSX. The only units which have recieved any recent electrical upgrades are the SD40E's, which have recieved new EM2000 microprocessor packages from EMD, replacing the original Super Series wheel slip control system of the SD50 these units are rebuilt from.

Both units in your photo are SD40-2's which were rebuilt from standard SD40's.

Bryan Jones
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:35 AM   #23
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Bryan - Thanks for the info. I heard that before about the APU system but it escaped my memory. Back when I was still in train service, I had a lot of those GP38-2's with that system.

Good eye on both units being rebuilt SD40's. The 3383 is the only unit in the 3300-series that is not an original SD40-2. Conrail SD40-2 6449 was destroyed in a wreck and scrapped in the mid-90's. Conrail SD40 (ex-PC) 6255 was rebuilt internally to SD40-2 specs and was renumbered CR 6449 (2).
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:56 PM   #24
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Thanks to everyone for the comments and advice. I was able to get the shot accepted.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...=347318&nseq=0
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:03 PM   #25
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B'man, you can put them in like this {photoid=347318} only replacing the {}'s with []'s.

It shows up like this:

Image © BurghMan
PhotoID: 347318
Photograph © BurghMan
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