Old 09-04-2008, 05:07 AM   #1
Chris Z
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Default High Sun at 9:30 AM

I'm a little confused here, on this shot.

My rejected photo

I think that there must be a different problem with this shot, than the high sun. You can see the shadows behind some of the trees. Although the sun was to my right, and the train is rounding a curve and this caused a shadow on the side of the last passenger car, is this what disqualified the shot? Should I be submitting pictures of only when the sun is low and behind me?

This may be a dumb question, but I'm new here as is all this digital stuff to me and I'm trying to figure out what the best criteria is for submitting and taking shots.

There are a lot of really good photos here at this site and I've also been reading all the Forum stuff to learn as much as I can about taking photos. So thanks from all you folks that have been helping out here.

Chris
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:13 AM   #2
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You've hit your problem on the head. There are a lot of dark areas on the train caused by the sun being to your right. If it were an image that couldn't be capture again, this may not be a problem, but because this operation runs today and can be shot tomorrow, they will clip you on this.
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Z
I think that there must be a different problem with this shot, than the high sun. You can see the shadows behind some of the trees.
One rough rule of thumb I have read is that the shadow should be at least as long as the object. Here they are not. Also, the running gear is dark, the trucks on the cars are dark.

Quote:
This may be a dumb question, but I'm new here as is all this digital stuff to me and I'm trying to figure out what the best criteria is for submitting and taking shots.
First of all, a nitpick, nothing at issue here has anything to do with digital vs. film. It is photography, no matter the medium.

Having said that, I want to stress that you not get discouraged. You took a fine shot! You took a fine shot given the time of day and sun conditions; you minimized the light issue, you made an interesting composition. Bum luck on the high sun. Remember that RP is not the only standard for good photography.

[Frankly, to me it isn't bad and I would appeal, saying that the light isn't that harsh and the colors are nice. Just expect to be knocked down again.]

For the future, find a spot where the angle of the sun is more favorable (and maybe a time of year where it isn't so high, if you can). And on this one, I might prefer that you aim a bit higher, moving the train a bit down in the frame and showing a bit more of the top of the hill, not cutting off so many trees and showing a bit more sky. Something to consider.
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Old 09-04-2008, 06:51 AM   #4
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I like the shot a lot Chris. Perhaps with some tweaking and you can get it accepted.

The one thing that does bother my eye, is the tree obstructing one of the cars.

Maybe some adjustments to bring out the detail in the shadows, or perhaps a black and white version.

Here's a couple of ideas of where you might go with the shot (hope you don't mind my tinkering).
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:32 AM   #5
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Default Odd colours

Chris,

The colours look a bit odd to me, they're very green. I've done a quick rework, just using levels.

It looks very much like Steve's colour version.

I hope it looks OK as I edited it on an uncalibrated laptop.

Alan
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:17 PM   #6
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Hi Chris,

I really envy you for the opportunity to shoot this railroad. I am just itching to get out to the Colorado NG operations.

The guys have really hit the nail on the head on the lighting issue. It looks like the light angle is about 45 degrees off the shot angle. Even with that, you've got a decent picture here. I think the issue with RP is that the indirect light keeps the colors from really popping. Unless the paint on the equipment is bright and shiny, less than direct light can make colors look a bit "dingy". The first car looks OK, but after that, the colors fade.

I wouldn't give up on this just yet. The guys have made a few suggestions, including going B&W that hold some possibilities. Next time though, if you can find a shooting position that at least gets the loco and the first car or two in more direct light, I think you'll like the results a lot better.

More like this one from yesterday:
Image © Chris Zygmunt
PhotoID: 249271
Photograph © Chris Zygmunt


That's a nice one that fits the RP mold very well.

Keep shooting!
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Old 09-05-2008, 02:44 AM   #7
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You guys are great here and have given me a lot of examples and ideas. And no I don't mind you guys manipulating my photos here. It helps me out. Anyhow I started playing around with some of the software and attempted twice more.

Using photo software is a week spot for me. I guess I just need a lot of time and practice. One thing I also noticed is that when I looked at a friends monitor that the photos appeared much different on his screen, both LCD. My monitor seems to show much more detail and is brighter. The colors are much more vivid and dark on his. That may also be a cause for a problem.

Anyhow, here were my last two attempts. My favorite color is green. Oh well.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=571196&key=0

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...9&key=35310888

I also have many slides from the seventies, eighties, and nineties. My flatbed scanner is very lousy. Can anyone recommend a good slide scanner. Here are some examples of attempts at scanning.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1201684406

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=569768&key=0

So yes, I'm having all sorts of fun and giving railfanning a try again. Thanks all for sharing.

Chris
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Old 09-05-2008, 02:51 AM   #8
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If sharpening is all they need...sharpen them. I like the vintage stuff.
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Old 09-05-2008, 03:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTRailfan
I like the vintage stuff.
I don't think that photos taken recently qualify as vintage. They are just photos of outdated equipment.
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Old 09-05-2008, 03:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I don't think that photos taken recently qualify as vintage. They are just photos of outdated equipment.
Maybe vintage isn't the word. I think historical would be a better term, given that the railroad in question isn't around anymore.
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:04 AM   #11
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Maybe Mike thought he was talking about the C&T photo's??? Probably not. And yes I would say Conrail is vintage or Historical.
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:30 AM   #12
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Unpatched Conrail units with a solid string of Conrail hoppers.. I'd call it something other than outdated equipment

I ran the 2nd conrail photo through IRfanview, and sharpened, I think you can fix it

Cool shot none the less!

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Old 09-05-2008, 04:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B.
I don't think that photos taken recently qualify as vintage. They are just photos of outdated equipment.
Isn't vintage just another word for outdated? Or vice versa? I mean, the coming of diesels made steam outdated, but we call steamers vintage.

Jon
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:53 AM   #14
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A very good dedicated film (slide and negative) scanner for a very low price is the Minolta/Konica Dimage Scan Dual. I have a III, but it's since been replaced by at least the IV.

I have been very happy with mine.

And I would call anything Conrail vintage, even though those shots are only 15 years ago. Sorry to disagree Mike.
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter S
Maybe Mike thought he was talking about the C&T photo's??? Probably not. And yes I would say Conrail is vintage or Historical.
I was talking about the steam shots. I didn't realize that there was Conrail in this thread until now (I really like CR). True Conrail certainly does qualify as vintage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnohallman
Isn't vintage just another word for outdated? Or vice versa? I mean, the coming of diesels made steam outdated, but we call steamers vintage.

Jon
The difference is the time in which the equipment is being used.
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Old 09-05-2008, 05:03 AM   #16
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Woohoooo I was right
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Z
I also have many slides from the seventies, eighties, and nineties. My flatbed scanner is very lousy. Can anyone recommend a good slide scanner. Here are some examples of attempts at scanning.

Chris
Welcome to the world of pain that is slide/neg scanning

Most people seem to rate the Nikon Coolscan V ED as the best dedicated slide/neg scanner these days without having to spend too much

Some tips on slide/neg scanning
Always scan at the highest resolution possible
Scan negatives at a very soft setting on the scanner compared to slides
Consider slightly smaller final image sizes for uploading (800 width rather than 1024) as this will help minimise problems
I don't know what editing software you are using, but if its Photoshop I found a very useful add-in was Intellisharpen (http://www.fredmiranda.com/IS/). This helps selectively sharpen edges in images without sharpening noise in other areas such as the sky
Get some Noise Reduction sofware. I use Noise Ninja (http://www.picturecode.com/), but others prefer Neat Image (http://www.neatimage.com/)

Good Luck
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Old 09-05-2008, 03:23 PM   #18
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Let me add to be light on the sharpening on the slides too (I give them a touch of sharp during the scan, and I give the negatives zero).

I basically had to scan everything twice, as my first time through I scanned using the sharpening function in the software on pretty full force. I also used the dust removal at pretty full force. This caused jaggies and inconsistant power lines.
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Old 09-06-2008, 04:32 AM   #19
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Got nixed again for high sun when the sun this time is almost directly behind me.

high sun shot, click here

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this, or should I just forget about this shot?

Chris
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Old 09-06-2008, 05:10 AM   #20
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Chris,

I do agree with you that it's not high sun, but I'm sorry to say that I'm not a big fan of the shot. The nature of a Covered Wagon unit is such that a tight side angle like that, especially one that is every so slightly from behind, is that you're sort of looking at a wall.

So - for what it's worth, I think you're right that you were dinged for the wrong reason, but I think the screeners were right to ding you on this one.

Sorry.

Charles
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Z

I also have many slides from the seventies, eighties, and nineties. My flatbed scanner is very lousy. Can anyone recommend a good slide scanner. Here are some examples of attempts at scanning.
I have the Epson V500.. Has great reviews and is not very expensive....... It is a flatbead and has a transparency adapter and does slides very well......
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