Old 04-23-2009, 12:13 PM   #1
CJA
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Default Filling in upload data correctly.

We Brits seem to be confused on how to do this correctly.

Image © Christopher Ashley
PhotoID: 280563
Photograph © Christopher Ashley


Image © Graham Williams
PhotoID: 280944
Photograph © Graham Williams


These two images have been taken of the same locomotive on the same Railway err…. sorry Railroad but the data has been inputted differently as can be seen. On the first image under Locomotive the line referring to Railway has been used to input the line on which the loco is operating on that particular day (i.e. Llangollen Railway). The second uses the name of the Railway Company that first built the loco (i.e. LMS).

Secondly Train id has been used in the top image to input the actual class/type of locomotive where on the photo below this has been inputted in the Locomotive data field.

Image © Richard W. Jones
PhotoID: 280531
Photograph © Richard W. Jones


So should train id refer to type or a code for the actual service being operated (equivalent perhaps to a flight number). And should the type of loco be entered as per the third photo under locomotive?

There is no explanation in the upload guidelines about which is correct and so the question is, which is and does it matter?
Having given this some thought I think I can work out how it should work but it would be good to get an official verdict if possible


Thanks for your patience.

Chris

Ps you can perhaps more easily compare these three images by running a search on "6100" and viewing them as thumbnails.
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:12 PM   #2
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Hi Chris,

Here's my take:

Country/State: Obviously, the name of the country and state/terrritory/province etc...whichever applies.

City: Self-explanatory

Location: Whatever you call the place where you took the photograph.

Locomotive: Make and model for diesels and electrics. Whyte System for steam engines. I see that some folks in the UK are putting class information here for steam engines, but I believe that what the site is seeking is the Whyte classification. Use the pull-down menus and select from those UNLESS the engine in your shot is not covered by one of the standard selections. In that case, there is a selection that allows you to enter a locomotive type yourself. Again, use standard Whyte designations unless you're dealing with something really odd. In that case, search the site and see if there are any other photos of the engine already in the data base....and follow their lead. (Examples: Steam 2-Truck Shay, Steam 0-2-2-0 Cog. Neither one is really covered by the Whyte System, but that's just what folks are using on RP)

Railroad: The name of the railroad on which the engine is operating OR the name of the railroad for which it is lettered. There is no set standard. I'm sure everybody has strong opinions about this one!

Road Number: The number on the locomotive/tram etc...whatever is providing the power. In the US, we typically put a reporting mark before that number. A reporting mark is a sort of standard abbreviation for the name of the owning railway. In the US, the reporting marks are published and one can look them up on the internet. Not sure what systems are in use in other countries.

Train ID: If there is a specific designation for the train as a transportation entity, put it here. For tourist lines that run a set schedule and don't name or number their trains, you can just put in the departure time. You can also leave this field blank and it will just default to "UNKNOWN" when your picture is posted.
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
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Railroad: The name of the railroad on which the engine is operating OR the name of the railroad for which it is lettered. There is no set standard. I'm sure everybody has strong opinions about this one!
Kevin,

I think all very good advice, except for this one, where the directions are actually quite specific...

Railroad: The railroad to which the lead locomotive belongs.

Charles

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Old 04-23-2009, 08:06 PM   #4
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Kevin,

I think all very good advice, except for this one, where the directions are actually quite specific...

Railroad: The railroad to which the lead locomotive belongs.

Charles
In the case of preserved locos would that be the railroad that originally put it into service or the organisation that owns it in preservation?

Tahns for your help gents.
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJA View Post
In the case of preserved locos would that be the railroad that originally put it into service or the organisation that owns it in preservation?

Thanks for your help gents.
Hi Chris,

That's the $64,000 question!! As Charles noted, for the common carriers (railroads that operate to transport freight and/or passengers), the Railroad entry would be the owner of the lead loco. For guys like you and me who shoot preserved steam, that question is not at all straightforward.

Take this shot, for instance:

Image © Kevin Madore
PhotoID: 277406
Photograph © Kevin Madore


This engine was originally built for the Western Maryland Railroad (which doesn't exist anymore) and is still painted in the livery of that line. She's owned by the Cass Scenic Railroad (State of West Virginia is the operator) and operates on their track most of the time in tourist service. In this shot, however, she's operating on another tourist railroad's trackage (the West Virginia Central). So what does one do? In the past, I've always used the current owner's name. Unfortunately, I've discovered I'm alone in that approach. Most of the photogs who shot this trip used "Western Maryland Railroad" as the owner....because of the paint...despite the fact that such a line no longer exists and certainly doesn't own the locomotive. The advice I've gotten is to use whatever the locomotive is lettered for. In this case, since the situation is really confused, I'm in total agreement with them. The locomotive lettering makes the most sense.

Unfortunately, I have lots of pictures where I didn't use that methodology, and because of RP data base rules, I can't fix them myself, nor am I inclined to burden the Admins with such effort. The photos are getting hits, so people are obviously finding them some way!
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:21 PM   #6
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Kevin that is a weird looking engine, I am going to have to look that up in the books.

As far as the $64000 question is concerned, I think I will go with the railway that built the Loco as that would seem to follow the spirit of the guideline. People are more likely to search against that than a preservation group. So I will need to amend all my uploads if I can!

Thanks again.

Chris.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:53 PM   #7
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My thought (we've now fallen into opinion, I admit) is that the way Kevin labeled it is 100% correct. It's a Western Maryland engine lettered for the Western Maryland.

It does get confusing on Heritage paint schemes and patched units, although the standard on them would be the railroad whose reporting marks the unit is opearting under. In my opinion...
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:22 PM   #8
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When you look at this on a global scale, given the number of different types of loco and railway options there must be I can see why the admins might perhaps be a little cautious about how they address these issues as far as options in the database is concerned.
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks View Post
My thought (we've now fallen into opinion, I admit) is that the way Kevin labeled it is 100% correct. It's a Western Maryland engine lettered for the Western Maryland.

It does get confusing on Heritage paint schemes and patched units, although the standard on them would be the railroad whose reporting marks the unit is opearting under. In my opinion...
We had a similar thread months ago about a shot I had taken.

Image © J Douglas Moore
PhotoID: 253440
Photograph © J Douglas Moore


Since this is an unpatched unit, I labeled it an SP even though UP owns it. I was told that was the "correct" method. Since that time, my wife has also posted a shot with an unpatched unit and she used the labeled owner, the TP&W

Image © Deborah Moore
PhotoID: 275995
Photograph © Deborah Moore
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
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This engine was originally built for the Western Maryland Railroad (which doesn't exist anymore) and is still painted in the livery of that line. She's owned by the Cass Scenic Railroad (State of West Virginia is the operator) and operates on their track most of the time in tourist service.
Kevin,

I agree. I use the same system as you do, but just FYI, the situation with WM 6 is even more complicated that most realize since Cass doesn't actually own her (at least the last time an official Cass roster was published)! She's owned by the B&O museum but on long term loan to Cass. Only a minor technical detail, but I thought it added to the fun/confusing situation in your picture:

WM-painted loco, owned by B&O Museum, operated by Cass, running on WV Central trackage, which is actually corporately the D&GV!!! Fun times.
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:44 AM   #11
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With the current state of play here in the UK, this can get mighty confusing, especially with the company field.

Take as an example, the new build class A1 4-6-2 number 60163, named Tornado. This is a brand new steam loco, built to an LNER design, in LNER apple green livery, but lettered for British Railways (as the 'real' class A1's were delivered in this livery/lettering combination in 1948/9, just after BR was formed)

I label shots of Tornado as a British Railways 4-6-2, but you could validly list it under LNER, or even the A1 Locomotive Trust as the organisation that built it
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:33 AM   #12
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Tornado would be A1ST for me, just personal choice. But it is of a muddle with it !

Preserved Lines its a bit of bother, I normally put the line in question. D1015 on a colas working though is that Diesel Traction Group or Colas ? Either way a Western on a freight is common...
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:08 PM   #13
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D1015 on a colas working though is that Diesel Traction Group or Colas ? Either way a Western on a freight is common...
I put D1015 down as British Railways, otherwise it just gets too confusing.
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:44 PM   #14
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I hadn't even thought of that one!
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