Old 11-29-2010, 03:50 AM   #1
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.. and anyone else who cares.

The way to "get the opinion of another screener" is to appeal, not resubmit an unchanged shot into the queue after it was already rejected.

99% of our submissions are initially screened by either Chris Starnes or myself. We are also the only two who screen appeals. The appeals system is designed so that the appeal won't be submitted to the same screener who screened the shot originally.

Thank you.
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:00 AM   #2
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Can i have my appeals back? I haven't appealed anything in like 2 years after I lost it when I first started here. No one ever answers any emails so maybe you will see it here.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another, IMHO. Unless you have a pole right thought the nose of the engine! -SG
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:20 AM   #3
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Heck, apparently y'all admin don't care, but I would REALLY like to know why this shot got PEQ'd. Makes no sense to me. I would LOVE an explanation. I've appealed, saying that all I wanted was an explanation and all I heard from the other end was the same old dead silence.

BTW, my latest version looks slightly different, but anyway, I think y'all get the point.
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everytime i see non-train photos of yours i think, "so much talent. wasted on trains."
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:26 AM   #4
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And so it begins another meltdown already. Insite into a screener/admin's day.
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:34 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy View Post
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy View Post
.. and anyone else who cares.

The way to "get the opinion of another screener" is to appeal, not resubmit an unchanged shot into the queue after it was already rejected.

99% of our submissions are initially screened by either Chris Starnes or myself. We are also the only two who screen appeals. The appeals system is designed so that the appeal won't be submitted to the same screener who screened the shot originally.

Thank you.
Chris,

I've pulled a quotation from the appeal rejections page below..

Quote:
To appeal the rejection of this photo, please enter a short, concise reason you feel this photo was wrongly rejected, and press the 'Submit Appeal' button. You will receive e-mail notification when your appeal has been decided.
The reason I do not appeal is that I feel I haven't been wrongly rejected on what I generally resubmit, while the guidelines state to only appeal if you feel you have. The PEQ is so subjective that I don't know if it possible to be wrongly rejected (unless someone uploads a photo of something that has zero relevance to railroad photography). Out of the all of the rejections, the PEQ is the only one that the screeners have full control over.

I generally only (at least within the past few months as I've gotten a little bit more selective in what I post) resubmit an uncorrected photo if the rejection reason is the PEQ. I don't feel that it is appropriate to appeal, as described above, I am just looking for another opinion, without abusing the appealing rights.

On the other hand, if I were to get an underexposed rejection for a photo that was borderline overexposed, I would then appeal, with a legitimate reason. I just feel that the PEQ doesn't really have a legitimate reason behind it, so I opt to take the "resubmit" route.

Now doing so wrongly, I'll just let the rejection go, unless I have logical reasoning.

And with this post, I'm not complaining about what is stated in the appeal rejection page (confused is more accurate, prior to your clarification in your original post), I am just explaining my reasoning.

Edit: Also, prior to your post, I was not aware that the appeal system was set up to send the appeal to the other admin. I took into consideration that both you and Chris Starnes screen 99% of the time, and figured the appeal would only cause problems.

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Old 11-29-2010, 04:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytiger View Post
Heck, apparently y'all admin don't care, but I would REALLY like to know why this shot got PEQ'd. Makes no sense to me. I would LOVE an explanation. I've appealed, saying that all I wanted was an explanation and all I heard from the other end was the same old dead silence.

BTW, my latest version looks slightly different, but anyway, I think y'all get the point.
Let's see if I can maybe help the admin. out a little...

A: Too Much Grain

B: Obstructing Objects/Foreground Clutter...The tree does nothing for me

C: Bad Cropping... Why you would cut off the caboose like you did is beyond me...

Honestly, if this had made it on, it would've have been one of those WTF were the screeners thinking shots IMO...

It just isn't RP material unless you shot it with the whole caboose in the shot and without a half cut off tree obstructing part of the shot as well....
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytiger View Post
Heck, apparently y'all admin don't care, but I would REALLY like to know why this shot got PEQ'd. Makes no sense to me. I would LOVE an explanation. I've appealed, saying that all I wanted was an explanation and all I heard from the other end was the same old dead silence.
Perhaps they didn't want to hurt your feelings by being honest?
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:10 AM   #9
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I think it's time to make everyone's rejections public again. Everyone uploads with the intention of having the world see the photo, why should rejections be hidden in secrecy? Let everyone see who's abusing the system.

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Old 11-29-2010, 06:15 AM   #10
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Maybe someone should type up a "guide" on this...
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:38 PM   #11
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I'm 100% for public rejections.










And a guide









And ponies.

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Old 11-29-2010, 01:18 PM   #12
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Count me in on public rejections!
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:10 PM   #13
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I would be for this too, and let's see who appeals too!

How about this, have a "public appeal" system where 1 photo gets saved per day, kind of like a last chance qualifier in racing.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:39 PM   #14
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Public rejections works for me!
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Old 11-29-2010, 07:00 PM   #15
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Public rejections all the way... only way anyone will ever see my stuff
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Old 11-29-2010, 07:28 PM   #16
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Also while we are at it, unmoderated comments on photos!
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Old 11-29-2010, 08:09 PM   #17
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New website... RailRejects.com
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Old 11-29-2010, 08:49 PM   #18
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I'm all for public rejections. If someone thought it was good enough to get on the site, it should be good enough for everyone to see, rejected or not.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:29 PM   #19
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Two questions:
  • Were rejections ever viewable before?
  • If such a feature were to be available, how many folks would spend time looking at other people's problems?
I have no interest in seeing other folks rejections unless they choose to post them and ask for help. The purpose of the site is to showcase good quality railroad photographs, not provide a feeding frenzy for the segment of society that gets their kicks finding the flaws in other people's work.

Just my $.02.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:34 PM   #20
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I thought the point of looking at rejections was not so much as a way to "get kicks" from seeing the "flaws," but as a community way of understanding what the screeners are looking for. Sort of a learn by example.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:36 PM   #21
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Well it seems it would be easier if the screeners just posted examples of pictures with rejectable flaws, like locophotos does.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another, IMHO. Unless you have a pole right thought the nose of the engine! -SG
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
I generally only (at least within the past few months as I've gotten a little bit more selective in what I post) resubmit an uncorrected photo if the rejection reason is the PEQ. I don't feel that it is appropriate to appeal, as described above, I am just looking for another opinion, without abusing the appealing rights.

On the other hand, if I were to get an underexposed rejection for a photo that was borderline overexposed, I would then appeal, with a legitimate reason. I just feel that the PEQ doesn't really have a legitimate reason behind it, so I opt to take the "resubmit" route.
I'd say that line of thought is almost completely backwards of how I've approached things here...

Simply put, if I get "rejected" for a technical reason even if I don't agree I'll start over with the original and re-edit to try to come up with better and re-submit the improved one - often with a note as to what I did. FYI that usually works best if you sleep on it first although I have occasionally smacked my forehead and realized I rushed the first one too quick and immediately could see the fix.

PEQ is one of the few reject reasons that I actually do appeal occasionally because it is the most subjective and I'll put together a short explanation of why I think it's worthwhile. Sometimes it's rejected again and sometimes it's accepted.

There are some reject reasons where it's best to walk away period - there's generally no fixing "cloudy/common" for example. This one for example certainly is cloudy and the trainset is certainly common, but getting it at this distinctive location required the train to be 8+ hours late for daylight:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=879917&key=0

I liked it, thought it was newsworthy enough and a good location to rise above "cloudy/common" but if they don't want it "c'est la vie." I didn't bother appealing it based on their preference for "good pictures" over "newsworthy trains" (sometimes but not always!)

Your mileage may vary.

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Old 11-29-2010, 10:21 PM   #23
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I would try really boosting the contrast and you might find a winner there, Michael.
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ryan View Post
I thought the point of looking at rejections was not so much as a way to "get kicks" from seeing the "flaws," but as a community way of understanding what the screeners are looking for. Sort of a learn by example.
Hi John,

I'm not sure that there is any way to display people's rejects constructively. Showing them without credit would save anyone from embarrassment, but copyright issues prevent that. And, unless there were some sort of Screener commentary (I PEQ'd this because....) on each, where's the real training value?

Folks just need to come to terms with the fact that we are posting pictures on someone else's website. The owners get to decide the content and that's that. They try to provide guidelines, but in the end, we all know how subjective photography can be. If the RP folks don't like it, they don't have to publish it. They don't need to explain themselves and they don't have to be consistent. If one of us is hard-over to publish pictures of bikini girls on trains....or dogs on trains , we can always start our own site. It really doesn't cost that much.

Again, the site's stated goal is to display great railroad pictures. I don't think having a rejects page supports that goal and it would, to some degree, violate the privacy of some people who really want to display their best stuff, but whose eye for detail just isn't fully developed yet.
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:51 PM   #25
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Kevin, I agree with all you wrote, but ...

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They try to provide guidelines, but in the end, we all know how subjective photography can be.
in fact all they have are some very old and out of date guidelines. Not much of a try. Of course, in the subjective realm guidelines are tough to do, but they could certainly do more. Even in the technical dimensions, such as a definitive statement regarding formats, say 3:2 to 5:4, vert or horizontal. Or somethign on HDR.
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