RP No Longer Accepting Cab Forward Shots

[Greg P]

On my flight to Japan I was playing around with some old photos I took and found this shot I never submitted.

Submitted it and got rejected for: Angle (Going Away): Photos in which the train is traveling away from the photographer, or roster shots focusing on the rear of the subject, are generally not accepted. Exceptions are made for artistic and/or unique images.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...26&key=9012206

Except...

It's not going away. It's coming at me. MARC trains run cab first going south sometimes.

Ok, I figured probably someone just isn't familiar with MARC operations so I appealed.

Appeal rejected.

No comments, no reasons.

I even offered to submit as proof that it's not going away, the series of images I took.



I have always had a great respect for RP, but this has annoyed me. If there is another rejection reason, that's fair, but I feel like the admin is saying I'm lying about the train coming at me.

Or make a policy we no longer accept cab forward shots.

What do I do now? Appeal an appeal and risk getting banned? I don't see a way to email my proof to the site admins.

[Freericks]

I would make a slighter tighter edit and resubmit. In the comments I would say train is in push mode on the corridor.

[KevinM]

Hi Greg,

I don't believe that RP thinks you are lying. I think what they are trying to say is that they just don't like pictures of this sort of train running in reverse. The line may run that way, but that doesn't change their opinion of it.

This is one of those things that can be annoying to the photographer, but one does have to remember that they are asking permission to post photos on someone else's website, and that someone else does want to exercise editorial control. That's why we all have Flickr accounts....so we also have a place where WE excercise editorial control.

I'll give here the same advice I give elsewhere. Use all avenues to show your work. If RP wants the shot, great! If not, find other venues.

[Mgoldman]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Hi Greg,

I don't believe that RP thinks you are lying. I think what they are trying to say is that they just don't like pictures of this sort of train running in reverse.

At least, not yours...

PhotoID: 455164 Photograph © Matt Donnelly

PhotoID: 330633 Photograph © Greg Primrose

PhotoID: 263540 Photograph © Janusz Mrozek

PhotoID: 220753 Photograph © Bob Pickering (BP)

PhotoID: 211387 Photograph © Greg Primrose

...shall I go on with more?

Love those rejected appeals - they read as "I know, but I don't care".

/Mitch

[Greg P]

That's why this rejection is so baffling. I've submitted and had accepted these shots before.

[bigbassloyd]

Tisn't a mind blowing image, so I wouldn't risk getting banned over it. They realize that passenger trains run that way, so read between the lines. They don't want it.

Loyd L.

[Greg P]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

Tisn't a mind blowing image, so I wouldn't risk getting banned over it. They realize that passenger trains run that way, so read between the lines. They don't want it.

Loyd L.

Then reject it as "not interested in this type of material"

It just bothers me that it is a factually incorrect rejection.

[JRMDC]

It's Seabrook, not Odenton.

BTW, if you care, I bet that shot instantly goes to the bottom of your RP pile, in terms of quality/interest.

[John West]

RP needs another rejection category that basically says there is nothing really wrong with this image but it just is not interesting enough to accept. Of course, it they applied that literally, RP would be a much smaller (but better) collection of images.

[wds]

You may need to resort to gimmickry to get in a train being led cab-car. Read the caption in the photo below!

PhotoID: 434331 Photograph © W. D. Shaw

Granted, your train is "purtier" than mine, but also it's so short that the loco appears much more prominent, which accentuates the "going away" feeling.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by JRMDC

It's Seabrook, not Odenton.

BTW, if you care, I bet that shot instantly goes to the bottom of your RP pile, in terms of quality/interest.

I would agree with that, J. Technically, the photo is fine. From a content standpoint however, a diesel train running in reverse looks like a train going away from the viewer, and in the case of modern trains, the back end isn't all that exciting....no platform, no conductor, nada. Mitch's point that similar shots have been accepted previously is a point well-taken.....but the only point that really matters is that......it is their site, not ours. Once you submit a photo, get a rejection, submit an appeal and get another rejection, I would not waste any more time on it. Your time is worth more and the angst is not worth what it does to your blood pressure. Put it up on Flickr and move on to more interesting stuff.

The MBTA here in Massachusetts runs the same way MARC does down there. Sometimes, when it snows, I do get motivated to go out and practice on their trains. I don't even take the camera out of the bag when I get one running backwards.

[wds]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Mitch's point that similar shots have been accepted previously is a point well-taken....

And that may be part of the problem. As we both pointed out there isn't much of interest in the back end of a commuter train even if it's coming at you, and so many of them have been accepted previously that there's really no reason to shoot them or look at shots of them any more. The exception, of course, is if you can inject some additional interest in some way, either in technique or composition. I know someone's going to jump on the old wedgie bandwagon and say the same thing about those, but sorry, there just is more of interest in the front of a train than in the back, in the vast majority of cases.

[JRMDC]

Even when accepted, push operations will result in few views.

PhotoID: 472435 Photograph © Janusz Mrozek

BTW, I completely understand why my shot is the opposite of a view magnet. And I figured it would get few views; but then I don't upload just for views (which are great to get!).

I've had better luck with other shots, although their higher views reflects in part that they were uploaded long ago. Still, they didn't disappear in the muck the way the above shot did. My pair of first-train-rides for each of my kids (the second in particular having been uploaded many years ago):

PhotoID: 298155 Photograph © Janusz Mrozek

PhotoID: 168915 Photograph © Janusz Mrozek

[Mberry]

Originally Posted by Greg P

Then reject it as "not interested in this type of material"

It just bothers me that it is a factually incorrect rejection.

I understand your frustration - the train has been proved to be not going away, so why reject it for that. I think WDS is on to something when he mentioned that the fact that the diesel is so prominent in your shot, thus giving it a going away feel, even if that's not the case.

But rp is still accepting cab car shots, I had one accepted as a week ago. Two cab cars with 4 horns total brought me a bit above average views for the most recent one.

PhotoID: 488814 Photograph © Michael Berry

PhotoID: 487898 Photograph © Michael Berry

PhotoID: 487040 Photograph © Michael Berry

PhotoID: 463313 Photograph © Michael Berry

PhotoID: 461798 Photograph © Michael Berry

PhotoID: 451645 Photograph © Michael Berry

[JRMDC]

Greg, not to put down this particular shot too much more than I already have , but looking at Michael's shots and the other shots in this thread, I have to think that part of what the screener is responding to is simply that your shot is fairly blah. That may reflect my personal aversion to post-fall pre-winter brown blah scenes - I think I'd rather shoot high sun than grayish-brown November - but maybe there is also something to that.

In general I think that, if a screener doesn't care for the shot for whatever subconscious reason forms in the mere seconds they are looking at a shot, they will find a rejection reason to kick it, and it may not be the right reason, but it is a reason.

PS: I've always felt the last of my three shots above goes completely in the "blah" category and the only reason I uploaded it and now keep it around is that it was my son's first train ride.

[Mgoldman]

Originally Posted by wds

And that may be part of the problem. As we both pointed out there isn't much of interest in the back end of a commuter train even if it's coming at you, and so many of them have been accepted previously that there's really no reason to shoot them or look at shots of them any more.

Lol - I could say that about 50% of the UP, NS, CSX and BNSF diesel wedgies. Should we suggest people stop shooting those? As would be implied, RP is obviously more then just some of the BEST railroad photos on the net. Personally, I like the inclusion of wedges and shots like the rejected one linked above - they help better tell the story of railroading around the world. Just as do Darwin awards. Wrecks. Girls in shots. RP'rs in shots. New paint schemes. Heritage overload. Special moves.... Don't like 'em? Scroll pass. If RP wants to retain patrons and acquire new ones, they should stick to one set of rules which apply to all, all the time. When rules change on the fly, no one is happy.

Originally Posted by wds

The exception, of course, is if you can inject some additional interest in some way, either in technique or composition.

Great minds think alike!

PhotoID: 424950 Photograph © Mitch Goldman

...though just because I am not generally a fan of cab cars I don't portend that everyone thinks the same. After all, last I checked, the motto is "The BEST railroad photos on the net", not "Our favorite railroad photos on the net". Though... it sure looks more and more like it. And who is really interested in a site featuring the favorite images "of five guys" vs "best images" on the net?

/Mitch

[Mberry]

I just got another cab shot accepted. I guess the background helped my case.

PhotoID: 489849 Photograph © Michael Berry

Would have loved to get this on too, but I lost the sun for 2 minutes.....

Good luck and bad by Michael Berry Railfan, on Flickr

[JimThias]

Originally Posted by wds

And that may be part of the problem. As we both pointed out there isn't much of interest in the back end of a commuter train even if it's coming at you, and so many of them have been accepted previously that there's really no reason to shoot them or look at shots of them any more. The exception, of course, is if you can inject some additional interest in some way, either in technique or composition. I know someone's going to jump on the old wedgie bandwagon and say the same thing about those, but sorry, there just is more of interest in the front of a train than in the back, in the vast majority of cases.

Originally Posted by Mgoldman

Lol - I could say that about 50% of the UP, NS, CSX and BNSF diesel wedgies. Should we suggest people stop shooting those?

No, because a locomotive trumps the boring ass-end of a commuter train any day of the week.

[bigbassloyd]

Originally Posted by Mgoldman

Should we suggest people stop shooting those?

Of course not. Just quit uploading them. Wedgies are like ___holes; everyone has them and nobody needs to see yours*.

And to prevent the murmors of me being an elitist prick, I have tens of thousands of wedgies in my portfolio. I shoot the heck out of them. But they are boring, and not worthy of being shown here (anywhere).

If you can't show me something different, you haven't shown me anything.


*not you specifically.

Loyd L.

[Ron Flanary]

Originally Posted by John West

RP needs another rejection category that basically says there is nothing really wrong with this image but it just is not interesting enough to accept. Of course, it they applied that literally, RP would be a much smaller (but better) collection of images.

I recalled I had at least one on RP:

PhotoID: 432905 Photograph © Ron Flanary

I will say, however, there's a lot more going on this shot than the one you had rejected. To be honest, it's not an exciting image (although "exciting" isn't part of RP's standards.......).

[Greg P]

I will say, however, there's a lot more going on this shot than the one you had rejected. To be honest, it's not an exciting image (although "exciting" isn't part of RP's standards.......).

Wouldn't have bothered me if they had said Not Interested.

[Ron Flanary]

Originally Posted by Greg P

Wouldn't have bothered me if they had said Not Interested.

I agree. You deserved a better explanation, because they clearly accept cab car shots. It's another example of screener inconsistency that really drives contributors nuts.

[MagnumForce]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

Of course not. Just quit uploading them. Wedgies are like ___holes; everyone has them and nobody needs to see yours*.

And to prevent the murmors of me being an elitist prick, I have tens of thousands of wedgies in my portfolio. I shoot the heck out of them. But they are boring, and not worthy of being shown here (anywhere).

If you can't show me something different, you haven't shown me anything.


*not you specifically.

Loyd L.

http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=18157

Most of your shots are wedgies, but they are interesting ones. What you mean is boring non descript ones, right?

[bigbassloyd]

My definition of a wedgie is a standard 3/4 view of the train, with no supporting details or scenery. Otherwise it's a composed scene, regardless of train orientation.

Loyd L.

[JimThias]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

My definition of a wedgie is a standard 3/4 view of the train, with no supporting details or scenery.

Oh, you mean like that one guy who spends hours in the desert shooting wedgies with no supporting details or scenery?