Old 03-26-2017, 10:26 PM   #1
Bryant Kaden
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I'm not looking for advice, just thought you'd all get a kick out this. I've got 1,500+ photos on the site and have been posting since 2005. I've never expected the process to be perfect. But really? I mean really. I guess I'll see if I can get it on by appeal.
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Old 03-26-2017, 11:39 PM   #2
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I suspect the screener didn't like the murky dead space at lower right. I'm not sure lightening that would help much.
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:49 AM   #3
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Yup, it may be exposed accurately, but it looks dark, due to the darkened space (soil color? due to spilled tar or something, or natural?)

It may not just be the ground, it just seems dark. I'm not sure why. My (limited) historgram plug-in shows it to lacking on the bright end.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:43 AM   #4
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Seriously? Murky dead space (a.k.a. "mud")? Alright, reject it for that. Underexposed? Alright, reject it for that. Cloudy day, though? You guys are telling me you'd look at this picture (here's the full image: https://www.flickr.com/photos/revbry/33510556722/) and think it was taken on a cloudy day?
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:25 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bryant Kaden View Post
Seriously? Murky dead space (a.k.a. "mud")? Alright, reject it for that. Underexposed? Alright, reject it for that. Cloudy day, though? You guys are telling me you'd look at this picture (here's the full image: https://www.flickr.com/photos/revbry/33510556722/) and think it was taken on a cloudy day?
Hi Bryant,

If there's one thing we've learned over the years, it is that you cannot always take the RP rejection reasons literally. You get perhaps 5 seconds of the screener's time and first impressions likely drive most of the decisions. My sense is that the screener looked at this one and thought "dark." He checked the closest box he could think of and wasn't about to spend a lot of time splitting hairs. I would spend some more time looking at the processing on this one. My reaction was the same as the screener's. This one just doesn't pop. Janusz is correct. The lighter tones need work.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:03 PM   #6
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"you cannot always take the RP rejection reasons literally."
I would say something about how ridiculous that statement is, especially when your job is to screen photographs (somewhat) objectively, but we probably don't need to beat that horse of frustration anymore. I guess I've been fortunate that, after 12 years of posting 1,700 pictures, this is the first time I've had a picture rejected for something that makes absolutely no sense. I haven't always agreed with some other rejections, but you either try to fix it or move on. I still say anyone could look at the picture and in one second (let alone five) know that it was taken on a sunny day. In fact, I just asked my 7 year old to look at it (he hadn't seen it before) and tell me as quickly as possible if it was taken on a sunny day or cloudy day. He immediately said sunny. Could it use some work? Ok, I'll listen. Again, I've been doing this long enough that if it gets rejected for being dark or underexposed, fine, no big deal. I like you guys and admire your photography, but come on. You're honestly going to stand by the screener on the reason for rejection?
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:47 PM   #7
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You're honestly going to stand by the screener on the reason for rejection?
I don't think anyone is standing by the screener. We're just saying that you're not the first one to receive a rejection reason from RP that didn't make sense to you and you won't be the last. We've all been there. It happens. The screeners are volunteers and like all of us, they occasionally make mistakes. Forgive, forget, do what you can do and move on. Folks have commented that the shot looks dark and some editing can probably make it better.

As the Nike folks say: "Just do it!"
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:50 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Bryant Kaden View Post
"you cannot always take the RP rejection reasons literally."
I guess I've been fortunate that, after 12 years of posting 1,700 pictures, this is the first time I've had a picture rejected for something that makes absolutely no sense.
Very fortunate! I've been posting about 3 1/2 years now and have 1,713 photos on rp and I've lost track of the rejections I got that made absolutely no sense.
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Old 03-28-2017, 12:51 AM   #9
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Bryant, I don't know what is causing it, but even though a sunny day, in a brief look your photo looks like you got "cloud boinked." The right foreground is SO dark that is what draws the viewer's eye first; not some extraordinary pop from the consist. That is, it's not "Oh, wow, look at that!" but rather "Ahhh, what's going on with the light?"

I completely concur with the comments so far. I think what I've said is likely what went through the screener's mind. But when you are limited to a dropdown menu of choices of why you're telling someone their shot was not accepted, there are going to be situations like this. The menu is quite often not going to have the choice of what the screener really wanted to say. For that reason, I wish the screeners actually had to type a reject reason. I suspect we'd have far less of these conversations in the forum.
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Old 03-28-2017, 03:12 PM   #10
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Not sure what I am looking at but guess???? a screen shot, partial image, somewhat truncated on the bottom but would 1200 x 700 as is.

Dealing with the dark dead space to the right, I don't think it is necessary to include the full length of the train and could be brightened and cropped.

Just my take.
I agree that unfortunately we can not take the rejection at face value so just try to improve it. Of course this can be hard since we are not sure what specifically needs to be improved, but suggestions for some of mine have worked.

Bob
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:09 AM   #11
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Lose some sky on that take, and I think you've got money, Bob. I would take the top down to just above the tree line. It's very interesting, while a sunny day shot, this one really has to be treated like a cloudy day and the sky minimized, as I see it.
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Old 03-29-2017, 02:54 AM   #12
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Thanks for the thoughts, guys. I really do appreciate it. This first attachment was just a screenshot with the rejection reason.

For clarification, I've never been upset about this as much as just amused that anyone could look at that picture and think it was taken on a cloudy day. I mean, there's a huge black shadow right next to the locomotive, clear distinct shadows on buildings, etc. One of the commenters on my flickr account even said, "You got sun where it counted, nice!"

Anyway, my experience has been, there are some rejections that are fixable with proper processing (bad cropping, under/over exposed) and some that are not as easy, if not impossible, to fix (PEQ, backlit). I would put cloudy day in the second category more than the first. Basically, the screener is saying the light was crummy (and it's a common angle of common power), so they don't want it, no matter what I do to the image.

Again, that's just based on my experience and the reason why, after 12 years and 1,700 pictures on the database, this rejection surprised me. I'm not upset or bitter about it, just amused. Thanks again for your input.
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:12 PM   #13
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So have you reprocessed it yet to make it look a little brighter? As stated earlier, it just doesn't pop. It also looks underexposed to me.
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:48 PM   #14
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Yeah, if by "reprocessed it to make it a little brighter" you mean I bumped up the brightness by one in PS and resubmitted it. You guys were right. It was so dark. That little bit, and suddenly it wasn't cloudy.

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/611505/
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:27 AM   #15
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You got a different screener the second time. I still see the same issues everyone else saw initially. I think a tighter crop would have helped as much as anything. The dark soil really draws the attention away from the train which is not what you want

There's an interesting shot at this location zoomed in when the train is passing the structure in the background. Maybe for a later date.
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bryant Kaden View Post
Yeah, if by "reprocessed it to make it a little brighter" you mean I bumped up the brightness by one in PS and resubmitted it. You guys were right. It was so dark. That little bit, and suddenly it wasn't cloudy.

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/611505/
Looks exactly the same.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:03 AM   #17
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I have had a number of "cloudy day common power" rejections that I think are questionable such as one yesterday which was originally rejected in December for being over exposed. As I've said before having a heritage train seems to make no difference so I also question the wording of the rejection reason. I'd say a lot of the time the screener doesn't like the train or the composition.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...82&key=2456834

This one being added to Flickr group "Rejected by RailPictures.net" along with steam shots that just aren't sunny enough for the screener. I encourage others to do likewise as that could be an interesting way of seeing what we can't see here. Not sure how many images are truly rejected images or whether they tried to fix the rejection reason. It also helps me know what I have submitted before.

Also, I'm keeping and attaching screen shots to forum posts as usually I don't get photos in rejected photo database and even the link on e-mail message will not pull up image. It also gets around the 7 day life of rejected images.
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Old 04-04-2017, 02:30 PM   #18
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John,

I really don't think that this image is worth complaining about. You did get several images of this excursion on, and this one has composition issues. The cropping is tight on the left, and the train is cut off on the right. That, compounded with the cloudy day, just does not make this a winner.

I submit images with similar issues, but only if I feel that the subject matter is unique enough to overcome the issues. I also fully expect a rejection and move on if I get one. Sometimes the screeners will feel benevolent and let it on, and I'm sure that it's mostly because my 25+ year old subjects can't be recreated today. If I took the same images yesterday, I wouldn't consider them for submission.

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Old 04-04-2017, 04:23 PM   #19
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John,

The cropping is tight on the left, and the train is cut off on the right. That, compounded with the cloudy day, just does not make this a winner.



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My thoughts exactly.
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Old 04-05-2017, 07:57 AM   #20
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If it was rejected for composition I'd understand but it wasn't either time. And grab iron shadow on nose isn't exactly dull cloudy day lighting - in fact the lighting could hardly be better for the train as it was mid day in summer. Basically full strong sun is what is needed now for my photos from experience and quite limiting for heritage train runs. BTW, I took the shot intentionally as I did to avoid crew in hi-viz gear.

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Old 04-05-2017, 01:44 PM   #21
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If it was rejected for composition I'd understand but it wasn't either time.
And if was rejected for composition you may try to correct that issue and then get rejected for lighting - better to get the killer rejection first and not waste further time on the image.

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And grab iron shadow on nose isn't exactly dull cloudy day lighting - in fact the lighting could hardly be better for the train as it was mid day in summer.
You may want to revise your thinking on this - mid day in summer is generally considered the worst light possible. Had the sun been stronger, it may have been more obvious that this should have been a high sun rejection. Looking at the grab iron shadows that you pointed out, it also appears that the train is axis-lit, and the sun is on the nose but not on the side of the train.

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Basically full strong sun is what is needed now for my photos from experience and quite limiting for heritage train runs.
Bad luck with lighting or weather does not translate to a mitigating reason for photo acceptance on RP. The photo has to stand on its own. As has been said many times in these forums, the reason for a rejection may be the first of several issues with the image, and a killer rejection is a clear sign that it is highly unlikely that the image can be corrected to an acceptable level.
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:35 AM   #22
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You may want to revise your thinking on this - mid day in summer is generally considered the worst light possible. Had the sun been stronger, it may have been more obvious that this should have been a high sun rejection. Looking at the grab iron shadows that you pointed out, it also appears that the train is axis-lit, and the sun is on the nose but not on the side of the train.
I meant the filtered light was the best I could hope for at that time of year for a middle of day shot. The train is well lit from the side. My point was entirely about the lighting that was considered unacceptable but maybe I'm taking that too literally. I could have perhaps offered a better example that doesn't have any other issue that might sway the decision. It's just that I don't have screen shots for them. It seems not worth the risk submitting anything without full sun in future unless it's something I think will be unrepeatable.
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:04 PM   #23
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Looks exactly the same.
It does to me too. What is interesting is that who you get as a screener might be the most important factor, something I have suspected for a long time in my experience. The photo could have been further processed but I wonder how much difference that would have made in regard to community response. Not sure how important that is to anybody either.
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:34 PM   #24
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I meant the filtered light was the best I could hope for at that time of year for a middle of day shot. The train is well lit from the side. My point was entirely about the lighting that was considered unacceptable but maybe I'm taking that too literally. I could have perhaps offered a better example that doesn't have any other issue that might sway the decision. It's just that I don't have screen shots for them. It seems not worth the risk submitting anything without full sun in future unless it's something I think will be unrepeatable.
I don't perceive a "risk" in submitting images that may push the limits of acceptability on RP, given that the image also has positive merit. The risk is in making these images a high percentage of your submissions, or in repeatedly challenging or resubmitting images with killer rejections.

The key is to recognize that an image may have an issue, and to expect a rejection. If the photo is accepted, fine, and if not, just forget about it. You have plenty of images here. One photo is not going to make or break your portfolio.

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Old 04-06-2017, 03:30 PM   #25
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Doug's common sense comments always make a lot of sense in these forums. Personally, I don't think that continually bleating over marginal to honest rejections in the forums garners any support from the screeners either. They are human and they can read. They quite possibly have a sense of humour and laugh a bit too, even make mental notes to scrutinise "things" with an intense scrute the next time around. Humans are humans....just saying.
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