Old 12-20-2010, 11:41 PM   #1
IHapsias
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Poor Lighting; what are your thoughts?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=887357&key=0

Not asking for 'whats wrong' or anything, but more or less your opinion on the photo. Any feedback would be appreciated.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2010, 11:50 PM   #2
crazytiger
Senior Member
 
crazytiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NS Greenville District
Posts: 1,473
Default

Ian, I think it would probably have gotten on if you had the sun, that doesn't seem you were entirely going for it, though I'm not sure why you even submitted that. Looks to me that the interest is largely in the bottom of the frame, not the top. However, you put the train in the middle up and down-wise, creating IMHO a much weaker composition. In summary, basically point the camera a little farther down so we can see the switches, etc. in the foreground not the boring trees.

/longwinded
__________________
Be governed accordingly,

PFL
crazytiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2010, 11:54 PM   #3
IHapsias
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytiger View Post
Ian, I think it would probably have gotten on if you had the sun, that doesn't seem you were entirely going for it, though I'm not sure why you even submitted that. Looks to me that the interest is largely in the bottom of the frame, not the top. However, you put the train in the middle up and down-wise, creating IMHO a much weaker composition. In summary, basically point the camera a little farther down so we can see the switches, etc. in the foreground not the boring trees.

/longwinded
Hmm.. All right, I was shooting about 100MM so I was limited, I'll try the shot again here with some sun next time. Thanks for the advice/feedback.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2010, 11:56 PM   #4
crazytiger
Senior Member
 
crazytiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NS Greenville District
Posts: 1,473
Default

I don't know how shooting at 100mm would prevent you from pointing the camera down.
__________________
Be governed accordingly,

PFL
crazytiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 12:13 AM   #5
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

He doesn't need to shoot down, just crop the top off until you have a 3:2 format.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 07:16 AM   #6
LSRC Railfan
Senior Member
 
LSRC Railfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 274
Default

My opinion is that the sun would make this photo so much better. The photo says "Taken with Permission", so if you're able to gain that again on a sunny day, this location would make a nice evening shot with the low sun this time of year.

Last edited by LSRC Railfan; 12-21-2010 at 07:18 AM.
LSRC Railfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 07:35 AM   #7
milwman
I shoot what I like
 
milwman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cedar Fall's, Iowa
Posts: 2,474
Send a message via Yahoo to milwman
Default

Poor light, Lack of that bright shiny thingy. Now if you had snow falling that makes a weather shot and can get in but just cloudy is flat light. Not a bad shot thou.
__________________
Richard Scott Marsh I go by Scott long story

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22299476@N05/
milwman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 08:30 AM   #8
Chase55671
RailPictures.Net Crew
 
Chase55671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nitro, WV
Posts: 2,195
Send a message via AIM to Chase55671 Send a message via MSN to Chase55671
Default

Not sure why you thought that'd get accepted.

Adjusting the crop to make for a more appealing composition would help, but won't get the photo accepted under those lighting conditions.

Re-shoot. Familiarize yourself with what is accepted so you can expect and better understand why you get these rejections.

Chase
__________________
Chase Gunnoe
Railpictures.Net Crew
Rail-Videos.Net Crew
Click here to view my photos at Railpictures.Net
SLR Night Photography Tutorial | Railpictures.Net Beginners Guide
Chase55671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 04:37 PM   #9
IHapsias
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase55671 View Post
Not sure why you thought that'd get accepted.

Adjusting the crop to make for a more appealing composition would help, but won't get the photo accepted under those lighting conditions.

Re-shoot. Familiarize yourself with what is accepted so you can expect and better understand why you get these rejections.

Chase
Where did I say that I thought it would get accepted?

I submitted it to see what would happen. Wether it was rejected ( which it was ), or accepted. I came to the forums more or less looking for opinions about the photo, not looking for ways for this photo specifically to be accepted to the database. I asked for opinions so I could use those to better attempt this photo the next time I try it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 02:52 AM   #10
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,843
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHapsias View Post
Where did I say that I thought it would get accepted?
If submitting a picture doesn't automatically mean that you thought it would get accepted, then that must mean that you didn't think it would get accepted. It's either one or the other. So, with that, if you didn't think it would get accepted, why did you submit it?
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 11:30 AM   #11
milwman
I shoot what I like
 
milwman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cedar Fall's, Iowa
Posts: 2,474
Send a message via Yahoo to milwman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
So, with that, if you didn't think it would get accepted, why did you submit it?
Key Point Ian, Only show the best you can do. You will look better, Screeners will love it and you will get better at picking out photos that will get in. As it is the way you're doing it is annoying. Post photos before you upload if you don't know about it but you know by now that was a long shot to get in, Right. Otherwise be happy no one is throwing rocks yet LOL.

Or was your point that even thats it's a cloudy shot with vary flat light you liked it so much it need's to get in? You need to look at a photo as, Do I like it, Is it good, Can I do better!
__________________
Richard Scott Marsh I go by Scott long story

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22299476@N05/

Last edited by milwman; 12-22-2010 at 11:44 AM. Reason: add more
milwman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 04:37 PM   #12
dthor68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11
Default Wow!

I love the photo! It is perfect! The lighting is great and the reason is, it is cloudy. If the sun was shining it would create shadows, shawdows are BAD. Crazy Tiger says there is nothing in the foreground, I clearly see a switch and I clearly see snow. The key to good lighting is no shawdows and nice contrast, that is what you get on a cloudy day. Showing sky on a cloudy day is bad and you did well not to show any. I had no idea that train photography's lighting rules were differant than all other photography. I dont know what to tell you man? The only thing I see wrong with it is that it is just another front view of a CSX. There is a million shots just like this, but, that is what you get with a million DSLR shooters with nothing to do.
dthor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 05:44 PM   #13
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dthor68 View Post
I love the photo! It is perfect! The lighting is great and the reason is, it is cloudy. If the sun was shining it would create shadows, shawdows are BAD. Crazy Tiger says there is nothing in the foreground, I clearly see a switch and I clearly see snow. The key to good lighting is no shawdows and nice contrast, that is what you get on a cloudy day. Showing sky on a cloudy day is bad and you did well not to show any. I had no idea that train photography's lighting rules were differant than all other photography. I dont know what to tell you man? The only thing I see wrong with it is that it is just another front view of a CSX. There is a million shots just like this, but, that is what you get with a million DSLR shooters with nothing to do.
Welcome to the forums!

People can disagree about photography. The lighting here is flat. Some like flat, I suppose. Flat can be flattering, as in outdoor portraiture during bright overcast. But flat generally isn't that interesting for scenes. (More importantly, flat isn't what RP is looking for.) More generally, photography is about capturing light, and people don't generally "love" shots or think shots are "perfect" if the light (or absence thereof, as in contrast or in night shots) is completely dull. I would say that for most people seriously interested in photography the light dimension will not make this shot, it will have to be some other aspect such as composition.

Aside from our disagreement, I am puzzled, though. It is odd to see that you "love" the photo and it is "perfect" but there are "a million shots just like this." It is human nature to thing that perfect is not common and that we love things that are not common or we think they are not.

In my view this is a somewhat interesting photo with boring light that might be nice but suffers from cropping on the left. Besides including more on the left so it doesn't feel as though someone took scissors to it, I would prefer that the shot be times so that the two engines are not side by side but rather that one is closer and one farther away, to give a much stronger sense of depth than what is offered by the small switchstand.

PS: As for "shadows are bad," I don't have time or inclination to fight that silly notion, but I will include just one of many, many shots with interesting shadows.

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots

Last edited by JRMDC; 12-23-2010 at 05:47 PM.
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 06:18 PM   #14
crazytiger
Senior Member
 
crazytiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NS Greenville District
Posts: 1,473
Default

Yeah, shadows are real bad. I mean, seriously...

Image © Bill Merlavage --- www.merlavageimages.com
PhotoID: 342022
Photograph © Bill Merlavage --- www.merlavageimages.com

Image © Dave Schauer
PhotoID: 293694
Photograph © Dave Schauer
__________________
Be governed accordingly,

PFL
crazytiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 07:01 PM   #15
dthor68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
Welcome to the forums!

People can disagree about photography. The lighting here is flat. Some like flat, I suppose. Flat can be flattering, as in outdoor portraiture during bright overcast. But flat generally isn't that interesting for scenes. (More importantly, flat isn't what RP is looking for.) More generally, photography is about capturing light, and people don't generally "love" shots or think shots are "perfect" if the light (or absence thereof, as in contrast or in night shots) is completely dull. I would say that for most people seriously interested in photography the light dimension will not make this shot, it will have to be some other aspect such as composition.

Aside from our disagreement, I am puzzled, though. It is odd to see that you "love" the photo and it is "perfect" but there are "a million shots just like this." It is human nature to thing that perfect is not common and that we love things that are not common or we think they are not.

In my view this is a somewhat interesting photo with boring light that might be nice but suffers from cropping on the left. Besides including more on the left so it doesn't feel as though someone took scissors to it, I would prefer that the shot be times so that the two engines are not side by side but rather that one is closer and one farther away, to give a much stronger sense of depth than what is offered by the small switchstand.

PS: As for "shadows are bad," I don't have time or inclination to fight that silly notion, but I will include just one of many, many shots with interesting shadows.

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©
People can disagree with photography but you are having a problem with my disagreement?

This persons photo was turned down due to POOR LIGHTING. I see some problems but lighting is not one of them. In THIS photo if the sun were shining there would be nasty shadows(THIS PHOTO) and the colors would be washed out(FLAT). Due to the overcast sky the color pops out, just the opposite of flat. This is not my opinion, it is a fact. Next fall take a picture of some foliage on a sunny day. Go back to the same spot when the sun starts to go down or some clouds move in and take another shot. Compare shots! This is why the well respected pros shoot in the morning, evening and on cloudy days. I am sorry I did not make myself clear enough, the LIGHTING is perfect. Please remember we are speaking about this photo. And, I have seen MANY shots here at Railpictures that look worse than this one.

Yes, there are many great shots out there in full sun, shadows, etc. I am well aware of so no need to make more comparisons. BTW, the shadow of the hill and trees in the upper right corner of your picture ruin an otherwise perfect shot.

Thanks for the welcome. I had intentions of asking a question, got sidetracked with this thread and forgot. Oh well.
dthor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 07:37 PM   #16
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dthor68 View Post
People can disagree with photography but you are having a problem with my disagreement?

This persons photo was turned down due to POOR LIGHTING. I see some problems but lighting is not one of them. In THIS photo if the sun were shining there would be nasty shadows(THIS PHOTO) and the colors would be washed out(FLAT). Due to the overcast sky the color pops out, just the opposite of flat. This is not my opinion, it is a fact. Next fall take a picture of some foliage on a sunny day. Go back to the same spot when the sun starts to go down or some clouds move in and take another shot. Compare shots! This is why the well respected pros shoot in the morning, evening and on cloudy days. I am sorry I did not make myself clear enough, the LIGHTING is perfect. Please remember we are speaking about this photo. And, I have seen MANY shots here at Railpictures that look worse than this one.

Yes, there are many great shots out there in full sun, shadows, etc. I am well aware of so no need to make more comparisons. BTW, the shadow of the hill and trees in the upper right corner of your picture ruin an otherwise perfect shot.

Thanks for the welcome. I had intentions of asking a question, got sidetracked with this thread and forgot. Oh well.
Going out of sequence but starting from the beginning (and the end also, sort of), if my reasonably phrased disagreement with you, not a put down or rude in any way but a thoroughly argued disagreement, makes you uncomfortable or somehow induces in you some hostility or something, oh well, no loss here. I certainly do disagree with you, is that a problem? I can deal with the many occasions when someone disagrees with me. We do disagree with each other on this forum. All the time.

As for the shot I linked, to be clear a) it isn't mine, b) I sure do wish it were mine, it is awesome, and c) whatever the effect of the upper right shadows are on the shot, to say they "ruin" the shot is absurd and, frankly, in my view disqualify you from any serious discussion of photography. Unless, I suppose, you are accustomed to writing in dreadfully unclear rhetoric, out of sheer sloppiness, I suppose. Maybe by "ruin" you mean "make ever so slightly imperfect".

As for the rest, I think you are silly or at least, again, just plain sloppy in your writing. Whatever you are "well aware" of, you convey poorly. For starters, you need to figure out how to express yourself with respect to what I will loosely call "good" shadows and "bad" shadows. I don't have time to go on, probably a good thing, beating a dead horse otherwise.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots

Last edited by JRMDC; 12-23-2010 at 08:22 PM.
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 07:37 PM   #17
crazytiger
Senior Member
 
crazytiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NS Greenville District
Posts: 1,473
Default

Nick's shot was certainly not ruined by those shadows. And there are 119 favorites of that shot to back me up. While I, and likely J, will agree that in certain situations cloudy lighting is better (fall color is an excellent example), for an everyday shot, the sun is better. You seem to be saying that cloudy would have been better for a simple wedgie. Comparison below:

Sunny:
Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©


Cloudy:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crazytiger/5286478642/

I'm sorry, but I think the first is much better, aside from the obvious difference in power.

Edit: I'd love to see some of your work.
__________________
Be governed accordingly,

PFL
crazytiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 08:29 PM   #18
dthor68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHapsias View Post
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=887357&key=0

Not asking for 'whats wrong' or anything, but more or less your opinion on the photo. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Let me try this again.

IHapsias, I think the lighting in your shot is great. The color is very good and you did not capture any of the grey sky. However, you should walk around and try to capture differant angles while keeping both diesels in the frame. After looking at the photo again I think it would have looked even better if 1181 was not there. The way the light hits the ribs of the cars looks pretty cool.

Last edited by dthor68; 12-23-2010 at 10:10 PM.
dthor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 08:32 PM   #19
crazytiger
Senior Member
 
crazytiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NS Greenville District
Posts: 1,473
Default

I guess we won, J.
__________________
Be governed accordingly,

PFL
crazytiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 08:50 PM   #20
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytiger View Post
I guess we won, J.
Debate isn't a contest, Peter. Except in HS debate teams, I suppose. I don't believe in winners and losers in forum discussions, just greater understanding.

Much as I personally would like the world to adopt my views on EVERYTHING.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 08:52 PM   #21
dthor68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytiger View Post
Nick's shot was certainly not ruined by those shadows. And there are 119 favorites of that shot to back me up. While I, and likely J, will agree that in certain situations cloudy lighting is better (fall color is an excellent example), for an everyday shot, the sun is better. You seem to be saying that cloudy would have been better for a simple wedgie. Comparison below:

Sunny:
Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©


Cloudy:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crazytiger/5286478642/

I'm sorry, but I think the first is much better, aside from the obvious difference in power.

Edit: I'd love to see some of your work.
Your second shot is no more cloudy than the first. The reason it looks so nasty is the position of your camera in relation to the sun. It looks grey because the sky is overexposed. Funny thing is that in IHapsias shot, none of the sky was captured. If I am not mistaken I gave him an add-a-boy for that. This thread is about IHapsias photo and your comparisons are not even close to what he has shown.

http://imagepro.photography.com/dfthornton
dthor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:12 PM   #22
dthor68
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazytiger View Post
Ian, I think it would probably have gotten on if you had the sun, that doesn't seem you were entirely going for it, though I'm not sure why you even submitted that. Looks to me that the interest is largely in the bottom of the frame, not the top. However, you put the train in the middle up and down-wise, creating IMHO a much weaker composition. In summary, basically point the camera a little farther down so we can see the switches, etc. in the foreground not the boring trees.

/longwinded
This quote is why I responded. Even if his photo was bad your response is rude and way out of line. But his photo was not bad and better than a lot that I have seen here. And to top it off you gave him bad advise. He even has the switch in the photo.
dthor68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:44 PM   #23
bigbassloyd
Senior Member
 
bigbassloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hilldale, West Virginia
Posts: 3,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHapsias View Post
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=887357&key=0

Not asking for 'whats wrong' or anything, but more or less your opinion on the photo. Any feedback would be appreciated.
My opinion is that the shot is quite vanilla. It could be better with a different crop (or crop ratio), and much better with some excitement in the lighting department.

Loyd L.
__________________
Those who seek glory, must also seek infamy.

My personal photography site
bigbassloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:49 PM   #24
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,910
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimThias View Post
If submitting a picture doesn't automatically mean that you thought it would get accepted, then that must mean that you didn't think it would get accepted. It's either one or the other. So, with that, if you didn't think it would get accepted, why did you submit it?
To be fair to Ian, there have been times when I've been undecided about a shot or even would have decided not to submit it, then change my mind and see which way the wind blows, so to speak. The way I see it, it's the Chris' web site. Since they can decide which shot to reject, every once in a while, I think they should be able to decide which shots to accept, if that makes sense.

Ian's shot is not bad by any stretch. I'd personally rather see a different crop. Less on top and maybe more to the left. Though I understand why RP rejected it.
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:52 PM   #25
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,910
Default

This was one of those "let them decide" shots --

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.