Old 07-24-2018, 08:12 AM   #26
J-M Frybourg
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... it's just perhaps slow to recognize a rapidly growing foreign base. I would agree, a foreign screener might be a good idea - heck, any new blood with enthusiasm for the site would be beneficial. That being said, that doesn't much help unless all "foreign" pics are screened by a foreigner from a country often foreign to photos from foreigners. Maybe RP needs a foreigner for the appeals? Better yet - my suggestion to admin is seemingly simple - with all due respect - lighten up and be more flexible to well known and received contributors. The loss of several and the perceived atmosphere here deprives the site of its potential.
/Mitch
Mitch, I so completely agree with you !!

In the past, I have repeatedly suggested precisely that. To add some non-US blood, like foreign screeners (perhaps with the limitation of screening only the non-Us pictures?). Also allowing some pages, like instructions for upload, etc. to be also readily available in selected foreign languages. Etc.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:24 AM   #27
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This morning, I got 2 emails, from 2 "foreign" contributors:

One was from Bernd Seiler, asking me what the process is to withdraw entirely from Railpictures: withdraw his account and withdraw all the pictures he has posted so far. Bernd has enough of this rejection business "This is a kindergarten, and they can play their own game. They do not deserve it." I am speechless and embarrassed because I opened Bernd' account on RailPictures. His pictures are so great that adding Bernd as contributor was going to be a great addition to the site. And now I feel ashamed that after 200+ great pictures he is asking me how to quit.
I am hesitating between trying to convince Bernd to stay on RPN, or acknowledging that he is right, I can’t but agree with him, I apologize for drawing him to this game, and I hope to see his pictures elsewhere, etc.

The other one from Vitaly Amtrakov, telling me that one of his pictures had made it to top of 24 hours, but is not showing up on the front page, and asking me why. I will post screen shots of this in the next message.

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Old 07-24-2018, 08:25 AM   #28
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Here is the situation for Vitaly's TO24 picture :
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	July 24 2018 morning top of last 24 hours.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	388.8 KB
ID:	9640   Click image for larger version

Name:	July 24 2018 morning RPN Front Page TO24.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	112.0 KB
ID:	9641  

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Old 07-24-2018, 08:51 AM   #29
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I respect the personal choice of people wanting to know and visit only their part of the world, and uninterested in what exists beyond their own borders. This cultural limitation exists in parts of the population in any country in the world.

But this is not the topic here. Perhaps the title of the thread was wrong. What this thread is about is that despite the site being gloabal in nature (international / universal) - or pretending to be - the reality is a de facto inequality of treatment between pictures depending on their country of origin.
You are correct that there are xenophobes here in the USA. This is puzzling and/or amusing, considering that 100% of the "white people" here have foreign ancestors! Lecturing them or arguing with them is utterly pointless, like talking to a brick wall. Only time will change them, one way or another!

Personally, I take the drama here at RP much less seriously since my Flickr views caught and easily overtook the views I have here. There are things going on in the wider world that are far more worthy of sturm und drang than a niche hobby website.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:31 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by J-M Frybourg View Post
Here is the situation for Vitaly's TO24 picture :
Without digging into the details, most popular of a day does not equal TO-24.


Bob

added: TO-24 and most popular of the day are two different 24 hour periods.

That was a neat photo and I noticed and favored it when it showed up.

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Old 07-24-2018, 11:47 AM   #31
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Here is the situation for Vitaly's TO24 picture :
For whatever reason, the screenshot that you posted is not showing the situation that you described. Both the To24 and Home Pages are showing an image of a former CSX Diesel by James Gentry as the top shot. Perhaps the screenshot is updating continuously, instead of being frozen in time?

At any rate, is it possible that Vitaly was "juicing" his view-counts with links to other sites? A while back, Admin did indicate (here) that steps were being taken to prevent at least some individuals from artificially forcing run-of-the-mill photos to To24 positions with links. I applaud this action and would like to see it extended to every photographer here. I have always believed that To24 should reflect popularity among site viewers.....not the abilility of the photographer to campaign his/her work elsewhere.

BTW, I also applaud Vitaly's creativity with the screen name.
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Old 07-24-2018, 04:26 PM   #32
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Jean-Marc,

Bernd (FarRail Tours) has had precisely 3 rejections out of about 250 submitted photos since he started contributing here. I think anyone who takes an objective look at his accepted images before they're taken down would agree that we've tried to do exactly as Mitch Goldman suggested up-thread as far as giving him leeway. Meanwhile, this is the gem that seems to have him so upset that he wants to withdraw from the site:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...44&key=1860370

Not exactly his best or most interesting work, I think most people would agree.

Meanwhile, you're upset and threatening to leave because you've temporarily lost your front page privileges since you were caught not once, but twice, using a custom script to automatically add fake views to every one of your images in order to get the front page (the second time coming two days after you admitted to it and promised me personally that it would never happen again).

You are a great photographer and have been a great supporter of RP over the years. I would hate to lose your 4,000+ photos. Nobody is denying any of that. But Mike Derrick is also 100% correct that the show will go on if you decide to pack it in.

I would like to thank you for this thread, though, since I think it gives a little glimpse to those reading as to what we're sometimes up against, and shows that that when a photographer calls it quits it's not always because of something as simple as those idiots who run RailPictures rejecting a perfect picture.
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Old 07-24-2018, 05:40 PM   #33
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Chris,

You are certainly not “idiots who run RailPictures rejecting a perfect picture”! You have done a great job building and maintaining RPN. This hot debate precisely shows how we can become fond of Railpictures and want it better.

Bernd does not complain about the RP selection system and the rejections.

I quote Bernd, who does not have a Forum account (and probably does not wish to):
“this is kindergarten”
“Just don't want to be treated as small boy. If they would give different reasons like "we think you have better pictures and we only want to have the best ones" I would be okay, but not this: the nose of the railcar is too dark when it isn't.
“I do not need someone who is telling me that a railway steam crane is not aesthetic enough or the nose of this DMU is too dark. I regularly publish in books and magazines (three attached), so I just don't want to be treated as an 11 years old boy who needs to learn.”

As for me, what has annoyed me is a feeling of inequality of treatment, lack of fairness between North America and Rest of the World. A feeling is partly fueled by facts, partly a matter of perception.

This is not just my personal feeling. I am in contact with other photographers (from UK, France, Netherlands, Russia) who have shared about the same concern. If I am passionate about that, it is because I hope that RP can become truly global. Making some adjustments to remove this feeling may help RP a lot. As someone said, adding some foreign viewpoint or participation to managing the site goes in the right direction. Diversity is a factor of progress. I would be happy to help. I also like the reasonable suggestions of Mitch Goldman.

There was no such thing as “a custom script to automatically add fake views”. Just a local fan of my pictures who decided he would help me, out of the same feeling that there was some excess exposure of US pictures thanks to social networks like Facebook. I have stopped that and I apologize for that.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:52 PM   #34
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Bernd (FarRail Tours) has had precisely 3 rejections out of about 250 submitted photos since he started contributing here. I think anyone who takes an objective look at his accepted images before they're taken down would agree that we've tried to do exactly as Mitch Goldman suggested up-thread as far as giving him leeway.
He had a 1.2% rejection rate and he's packing it in over that?

Perhaps some folks need a few problems in their life to realize how good they have things.

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Meanwhile, you're upset and threatening to leave because you've temporarily lost your front page privileges since you were caught not once, but twice, using a custom script to automatically add fake views to every one of your images in order to get the front page (the second time coming two days after you admitted to it and promised me personally that it would never happen again).
I guess I will never understand this. JM is indeed a great photographer and has been blessed to have photos from places that many here can only dream of visiting.....and some places I'd be scared to death to visit. People love his work. 38,000 favorites, 4,600 comments, 50 PCAs. Where's the need to do stuff like this?

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I would like to thank you for this thread, though, since I think it gives a little glimpse to those reading as to what we're sometimes up against, and shows that that when a photographer calls it quits it's not always because of something as simple as those idiots who run RailPictures rejecting a perfect picture.
Chris, I think you're the Paul Harvey of RP.net. To quote the late News Anchor Paul Harvey:

"And now you know.....THE REST of the story......."
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:49 AM   #35
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That is a pretty low rejection rate. I have over 1000 photos here and have never received a Screeners Choice. I've also had a few rejected that others have commented on how much they liked it. It's not a perfect world. I don't like linking your shot to get more views. I wish the gritty Midwest was represented more with a screeners choice. Pretty scenery or dramatic weather are not required for a great RR shot. I also wish vintage images shot on film were recognized more often. Here's a thought, how about a Vintage Choice?

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Old 08-06-2018, 04:53 PM   #36
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RP is not perfect but that is not just a function of RP itself but also its contributors. The problems with RP itself are often discussed, but I think the contributors could also be a bit more introspective. If they expect perfection they are likely to be disappointed, and how much of their response is just ego. I know, been there done that. I used to get really unhappy when one of my wonderful works of art was rejected. But over time I slowly learned to live with the fact the screeners are not only volunteers but human, and some times were not only just plain wrong, but inconsistent and arbitrary. And even occasionally correct. Can RP be made better, maybe, but I'm not holding my breath. When "art" is concerned there is probably no perfect system.

We do this for fun so if the angst outweighs the satisfaction, nothing wrong with going away. But i am particularly disappointed when folks who leave ask that their images be removed, that affects not only RP but those who enjoyed the pix.

The international cultural differences are interesting. I have had the pleasure of railfanning with a lot of folks from around the world, and there are differences. In some cases that causes conflict, but more often it is a mutual learning experience. My photography is better for spending time alongside some Brits, some Germans, and so on. And hopefully vice versa. This has become very much an international hobby.

By the way, the picture I use as an avatar here is a reject from many years ago.
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Old 08-07-2018, 03:48 AM   #37
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.....and how much of their response is just ego.
Nail hit squarely on head! There are a few egos in rail photography that should be sporting the Goodyear (TM) logo and flying over football games.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:17 PM   #38
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I quote Bernd, who does not have a Forum account (and probably does not wish to):
“this is kindergarten”
“Just don't want to be treated as small boy. If they would give different reasons like "we think you have better pictures and we only want to have the best ones" I would be okay, but not this: the nose of the railcar is too dark when it isn't.
“I do not need someone who is telling me that a railway steam crane is not aesthetic enough or the nose of this DMU is too dark. I regularly publish in books and magazines (three attached), so I just don't want to be treated as an 11 years old boy who needs to learn.”
I'm so tired of this "I've been published" cliche as a justification to having your image accepted to RP. Have you seen train pics in "books and magazines"? It's not unusual to find pics that are garbage and probably should have been rejected by the editors of those books and magazines. They are certainly no standard to quality.
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Old 08-07-2018, 04:18 PM   #39
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I'm so tired of this "I've been published" cliche as a justification to having your image accepted to RP. Have you seen train pics in "books and magazines"? It's not unusual to find pics that are garbage and probably should have been rejected by the editors of those books and magazines. They are certainly no standard to quality.
Don't be so hard on books and magazines. Before the internet, they were about all we had! Sure, they gave us Virgil Staff, but they also gave us Plowden and Steinheimer.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:10 AM   #40
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Hey, I've been published in The Short Line recently. Does that count?
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:07 AM   #41
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Bernd does not complain about the RP selection system and the rejections.
It's interesting that he made his departure at about the same time that it appeared that linking was more universally blocked, and his regular dominance of the top four positions was no longer taking place.


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I regularly publish in books and magazines (three attached), so I just don't want to be treated as an 11 years old boy who needs to learn.”
It's also interesting that someone who doesn't want to be treated like an eleven year old has reacted like a three year old.
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:08 AM   #42
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Don't be so hard on books and magazines. Before the internet, they were about all we had! Sure, they gave us Virgil Staff, but they also gave us Plowden and Steinheimer.
Did you mean Virgil Stiff?
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Old 08-08-2018, 03:58 AM   #43
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Did you mean Virgil Stiff?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lindas...7612124233377/

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Old 08-13-2018, 02:36 AM   #44
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Old 09-28-2018, 09:07 AM   #45
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Considering RP.net is a publisher who has every right to reject a submission, I'm a little surprised by where this thread has gone at a time of a noticeable increase in "foreign" railroad content on the site in the last 6 months or so. I might be a backer of what Jean-Marc says as far as bias is concerned as I've also had much contact with other contributors all around the world. So what?
I can't see ranting or contributors withdrawing achieving what they seek for the site. We should perhaps ask our-self why we contribute to this site in the first place if we make such a big deal out of a few photo rejections.

We must consider the "interestingness" of our photos to an audience which, mostly, isn't interested in the railroad or our country. RP is becoming more international in content and viewership through contributions from superb photographers such as Jean-Marc but it will not gain momentum if they leave or shrink back. Thousands of photos may have been removed from this site on request by contributors offended by photo rejections - what a shame!

Jean-Marc, as you probably know, there are many train photo sites for the "European market" though not with the size audience of RP. The 1200*800 maximum resolution of RP.net I liken to advertising with your flickr or a web site the full screen deal for your fine photography!
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