Old 06-19-2017, 03:19 AM   #1
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I'm considering upgrading cameras as the one I have is over a half-decade old and its age is showing in image quality. I'm looking at mid-range consumer-level cameras such as the Canon D70/D80 and the Nikon D72000. Anyone have any recommendations?
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:54 AM   #2
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What do you have now? The glass you own pretty much dictates which brand you upgrade with. The Nikon D7200 has just been replaced with the new D7500, so you have some options. Stocks of new 7200s still exist and because it is technically "obsolete", you can probably get a good deal on what is still a very capable camera. That said, you're buying technology that's already a couple of years old. If it were me, I'd go with the latest and greatest, but I don't have kids in college.

I can't comment on Canons. I've never considered buying one. My friend Mitch Goldman says they suck.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:59 AM   #3
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The first question I would ask yourself is what are you going to use the images for and what level of quality/technology does that require. I say that because I think the majority of us pay for more technology that we ever use. But you may be one of the exceptions.

I used a Nikon D90 until recently (it is my backup now), and now have a D7100 that is more than enough for my needs, and I got it reasonably cheaply after the D7200 was on the market.

Perhaps the bigger question should be what lens or lenses to get, because a good choice there might cost more than the camera body.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:20 AM   #4
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Modern Canon/Nikon equipment is pretty good. I would say that if you are doing non-professional applications, and especially if you don't print images but only view/distribute online, then the image quality of the big brands is more than sufficient. So important criteria are the features that you might want to have, the usability (comfort in the hand, ease of use of menus) and of course the lenses.

For example, way back when I chose the mid-range Canon line (xxD) over the Rebel-level bodies because having that second control dial was really important to me for how I wanted to handle the camera. Or perhaps frames per second is important because you often face the problem of placing the nose of the train perfectly in the frame.

I have no opinion as to whether one body has better image quality than another. I've seen Mitch of late repeatedly mention Canon's limited dynamic range on FB; perhaps he will chime in and you will have the benefit of an additional opinion.

If you are shooting steam at night, I would suggest that in this day and age you want a full frame body so as to get a desirably shutter speed with minimal noise. That is a full frame vs crop issue, not necessarily Canon/Nikon/whoever.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:59 PM   #5
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Mitch will certainly give you the best Nikon sales pitch you've ever heard, but I'm not sure if he's trying to convince us or himself.

As stated previously, if you already own a good selection of lenses from a certain company, I'd only consider their bodies. The fields are aplenty with high quality equipment from every vendor.

I learned many years ago when I worked in the R&D side of the car audio industry that dick measuring over specs and test results rarely went anywhere beneficial.

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Old 06-19-2017, 02:52 PM   #6
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Mitch will certainly give you the best Nikon sales pitch you've ever heard, but I'm not sure if he's trying to convince us or himself.

As stated previously, if you already own a good selection of lenses from a certain company, I'd only consider their bodies. The fields are aplenty with high quality equipment from every vendor.

I learned many years ago when I worked in the R&D side of the car audio industry that dick measuring over specs and test results rarely went anywhere beneficial.

Loyd L.
Unless someone is going to be habitually shooting in really poor light, it is hard to go wrong with the equipment available from any of the major manufacturers. Current bodies and lenses are miles ahead of what was offered just half a dozen years ago. If you look hard enough, you'll find good photographers who swear by just about all of them. A friend of mine, whose railroad images have achieved quite a following, recently ditched thousands of dollars worth of Canon DSLR gear and bought 4 Fuji bodies and 4 primes. He has not looked back as far as I know. It is all a matter of person preference. I personally like the color and dynamic range of the Nikons. I also like the user interface. With Canons, I just can't get past the fact that the On-Off switch is on the wrong side.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:48 PM   #7
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With Canons, I just can't get past the fact that the On-Off switch is on the wrong side.
???

On my 50D the switch is bottom center of the back. On my 70D it is part of the dial on top, left side. Are those both the wrong side? Inquiring minds want to know! You have more screener's choices than I do!
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:45 PM   #8
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???

On my 50D the switch is bottom center of the back. On my 70D it is part of the dial on top, left side. Are those both the wrong side? Inquiring minds want to know! You have more screener's choices than I do!
On all of the Nikons, the On/Off Switch is located on the top of the front side of the grip. It is perfectly positioned so that when you reach for your camera with your right hand, you can "draw and get the safety off" with your index finger as you bring it up to your eye. I never understood Canon putting the On/Off switch on the back of the camera at the top left. Unless you're a lefty, the camera is still off until you get the second hand on it.

Another odd thing.....and Canon shooters can feel free to correct me if I am wrong, is that Canons don't make it easy to select the focus point on the fly. With my Nikons, I can use the "joystick" on the back of the camera to select whatever focus point I want while I am shooting.

The only Canon Feature that I wish Nikon would adopt is the "big wheel" for reviewing photos. That wheel is a lot more effective for reviewing shots quickly than Nikon's joystick. But I would never accept that wheel as a substitute for my shutter speed thumbwheel, and on the Canons, the big wheel apparently is also used to control shutter speed. To me, that wheel is in a very awkward spot when the camera is up to your eye.

All a matter of what you are used to, I guess..... I am keeping my Nikons.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:08 PM   #9
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I use 'my' body to select to the focus point. It's called center point focus

I've never ran into an issue where I missed a shot because of the power button either.

Spend enough time with any particular camera and the motions become instinctual anyhow.

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Old 06-19-2017, 06:26 PM   #10
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Thanks for the advice, all. I'm currently shooting a Fuji HS30 bridge camera which has been a wonderful thing to learn on as it's really flexible and forgiving, but it's time for something bigger and better.
So I'm basically starting from zero. Budget is a concern, but I intend to hold onto whatever I get for a while so I may be able to spend a bit more.
Thanks for the ideas.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:45 PM   #11
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???

On my 50D the switch is bottom center of the back. On my 70D it is part of the dial on top, left side.
Yeah, I just got a 6d and the on/off switch is up on the "mode" dial, which is very unnatural to me compared to all my previous canon bodies.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:25 PM   #12
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Thanks for the advice, all. I'm currently shooting a Fuji HS30 bridge camera which has been a wonderful thing to learn on as it's really flexible and forgiving, but it's time for something bigger and better.
So I'm basically starting from zero. Budget is a concern, but I intend to hold onto whatever I get for a while so I may be able to spend a bit more.
Thanks for the ideas.
It would be really hard to go wrong with any of the DSLR companies. If you have a local camera shop nearby, I'd suggest spending some time fiddling with each one. The correct choice will become apparent, and then you can work on defending your decision from the people who run something else

Signed,

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Old 06-19-2017, 08:37 PM   #13
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Another odd thing.....and Canon shooters can feel free to correct me if I am wrong, is that Canons don't make it easy to select the focus point on the fly. With my Nikons, I can use the "joystick" on the back of the camera to select whatever focus point I want while I am shooting.
I think you are wrong about this. Hard for me to remember, but I think one scrolls through the focus points with the top roller. It seems easy enough. If one has a body with 60+ focus points, on the other hand, that would be cumbersome. I don't know how those bodies are set up.

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The only Canon Feature that I wish Nikon would adopt is the "big wheel" for reviewing photos. That wheel is a lot more effective for reviewing shots quickly than Nikon's joystick. But I would never accept that wheel as a substitute for my shutter speed thumbwheel, and on the Canons, the big wheel apparently is also used to control shutter speed. To me, that wheel is in a very awkward spot when the camera is up to your eye.
Perhaps you are using the terms "big wheel" and "thumbwheel" differently than I do, or the language is different in Nikon land. I control the shutter with my thumb on the back wheel and aperture with the (smaller) top roller and my index finger. Or is it the opposite? Hmm, I was just out last night shooting and already I don't remember. At any rate, two wheels, two fingers, it works readily enough.

I'm sure if I had started with Nikon years ago, I would do it that way and not have a care in the world.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:43 PM   #14
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Duplicate post......no idea how I did it!!
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:44 PM   #15
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I think you are wrong about this. Hard for me to remember, but I think one scrolls through the focus points with the top roller. It seems easy enough. If one has a body with 60+ focus points, on the other hand, that would be cumbersome. I don't know how those bodies are set up.
It may be that you can change the focus point with the back wheel on a Canon, but unlike the Nikon joystick, you can't go up/down as well as right/left. You can only scroll through the points in order until you reach the one you want. The Nikon system allows you to move the red rectangle (focus designator) directly to where you want it with a minimum of wasted effort.

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Perhaps you are using the terms "big wheel" and "thumbwheel" differently than I do, or the language is different in Nikon land. I control the shutter with my thumb on the back wheel and aperture with the (smaller) top roller and my index finger.
Yes, it is the "back wheel" on the Canons that I both like and dislike. I like the ability to quickly review photos already captured by simply spinning that wheel. I don't like the idea of either controlling shutter speed or the focus point position with it.

The Nikons have two thumbwheels which are position so you roll them horizontally (not vertically). One is at the top of the grip in the front, and controls aperture, typically with the forefinger. The other is on the back at the top right, and controls shutter speed, typically with the thumb. Physically, the two thumbwheels are identical. In addition, there is a "joystick" button on the back of the camera to the right of the LCD. Depressing the edges of that joystick is used for manipulating focus points up, down, right or left. It is also used for reviewing photos, but it requires a separate keystroke to move from frame to frame. If you have 300 frames to look at, finding number 120 is a bit of a PITA. It's the only feature that Nikon really needs to improve.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:59 PM   #16
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It may be that you can change the focus point with the back wheel on a Canon, but unlike the Nikon joystick, you can't go up/down as well as right/left. You can only scroll through the points in order until you reach the one you want. The Nikon system allows you to move the red rectangle (focus designator) directly to where you want it with a minimum of wasted effort.



Yes, it is the "back wheel" on the Canons that I both like and dislike. I like the ability to quickly review photos already captured by simply spinning that wheel. I don't like the idea of either controlling shutter speed or the focus point position with it.

The Nikons have two thumbwheels which are position so you roll them horizontally (not vertically). One is at the top of the grip in the front, and controls aperture, typically with the forefinger. The other is on the back at the top right, and controls shutter speed, typically with the thumb. Physically, the two thumbwheels are identical. In addition, there is a "joystick" button on the back of the camera to the right of the LCD. Depressing the edges of that joystick is used for manipulating focus points up, down, right or left. It is also used for reviewing photos, but it requires a separate keystroke to move from frame to frame. If you have 300 frames to look at, finding number 120 is a bit of a PITA. It's the only feature that Nikon really needs to improve.
Kevin,

My Canon 7Ds have a “joystick” (middle right on back of camera) that I change focus points all the time with, going up/down/across without any scrolling.

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Old 06-20-2017, 12:19 AM   #17
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Another odd thing.....and Canon shooters can feel free to correct me if I am wrong, is that Canons don't make it easy to select the focus point on the fly.
Yeah, you are wrong about this. You hit the AF point button, then either move the joystick or wheel to select the AF point. It's extremely easy.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:39 AM   #18
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Kevin,

My Canon 7Ds have a “joystick” (middle right on back of camera) that I change focus points all the time with, going up/down/across without any scrolling.

Mike
Thanks, Mike! Not owning a Canon, my only experience is from playing with them in camera stores....and hearing some owners bellyache about their equipment. I guess the best advice for camera owners is the same advice I give other pilots: RTFM! (Read The FLIGHT Manual)
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Old 06-21-2017, 04:08 PM   #19
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Yeah, you are wrong about this. You hit the AF point button, then either move the joystick or wheel to select the AF point. It's extremely easy.
Yup. I can do it while holding the camera to my eye and looking through the viewfinder. It becomes second nature after you get used to the controls on your camera.

And I'm with Loyd...I've never missed a shot because of where the power button was located on the camera. Is turning on the camera an issue with some people? I've never even heard of that being a thing.
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Old 06-21-2017, 04:27 PM   #20
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Let me just quickly jump in and clarify my thoughts on Canon....

They don't "suck", though I know Kevin was kidding when he said that, but Loyd was correct in stating I'll throw a pitch for them vs Canon.

Basically, just about any Nikon you can get your hands on will IN FACT have better image quality if /when you are shooting subject in difficult lighting (low ambient light and /or high contrast lighting). This is because Nikons (and Sony cameras) have sensors that are capable of recording more dynamic range.

That said... the latest crop of Canon's is much improved - starting with the 80D and the 5D Mark IV. Almost as good as Nikon - probably even indistinguishable finally.

My recommendation: Buy the tools you need to get the results you want.

Some things to consider:

Price
ISO usable range (not max, but usable)
Image quality (namely - dynamic range)
Crop or full frame (basically, or... often, better in low light)
Frames per second
Number of focus points as well as spread
Ease of use - namely, having buttons, wheels and joysticks vs
scrolling through menus to get to commonly used features.
Ruggedness of the camera
Size and weight
Features (GPS, Tiltable screen, WIFI, built in flash, ect)

I would echo Kevin's advice - you can not go wrong with a good used or discounted but discontinued Nikon - they are bargains right now. Especially the D7200 and the D750.

Here's a great site to compare those items listed above:

http://snapsort.com/compare

/Mitch

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Old 06-21-2017, 09:41 PM   #21
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Yup. I can do it while holding the camera to my eye and looking through the viewfinder. It becomes second nature after you get used to the controls on your camera.

And I'm with Loyd...I've never missed a shot because of where the power button was located on the camera. Is turning on the camera an issue with some people? I've never even heard of that being a thing.
I don't know if it's like this on all the new Canon camera bodies, but I like the fact that you have to press a button to change "mode" now, I can't tell you have many times i've missed shots because my camera got bumped and inadvertently changed from M to some other mode and I didn't notice until I went to take the pic
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Old 06-22-2017, 01:34 AM   #22
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What is this mode you speak of? Automatic all the way!!!!

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Old 06-22-2017, 02:26 AM   #23
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Automatic all the way!!!!
No.

I never wanted the exposure changing as those black PRR/NYC/PC engines got closer to the camera.
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:57 AM   #24
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No.
facetious

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Old 06-22-2017, 03:50 PM   #25
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Don't ignore cameras by Sony. I have used them for years. First was an A100. Now I use an A700 and an A77 and I have no complaints. I like the fact they have image stabilization built into the camera body, among other things. I read once that Nikon uses Sony sensors in some of their cameras.
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