JPEG Compression

Doug Wolfe · 03-18-2009, 02:16 PM

I have been getting a lot of rejects lately for too much jpeg compression. What am I doing wrong? I use PS Elements 6. Thanks!

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=197439862

milwman · 03-18-2009, 02:22 PM

Save at 400k or more 200k to 300K wont make it.

JRMDC · 03-18-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milwman

Save at 400k or more 200k to 300K wont make it.

I always save at whatever the maximum file size is below 1MB. Usually that is the highest setting in PSE, a 12; occasionally I have to knock it down to an 11.

Joe the Photog · 03-18-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC

I always save at whatever the maximum file size is below 1MB. Usually that is the highest setting in PSE, a 12; occasionally I have to knock it down to an 11.

Same here. What kind of camera are you using, Doug? That might be more important that the software used to pros your shots.

Joe

Mark Bau · 03-18-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog

Same here. What kind of camera are you using, Doug? That might be more important that the software used to pros your shots.

Joe

His camera has nothing to do with it, the shot is clearly compressed too much.

Ween · 03-18-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau

His camera has nothing to do with it, the shot is clearly compressed too much.

Sure it does...what if he's got his image quality in-camera set to Small/Normal (assuming he's using a Canon)? I'm guessing that could make a difference...

Doug Wolfe · 03-18-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog

Same here. What kind of camera are you using, Doug? That might be more important that the software used to pros your shots.

Joe

Sony 200k DSLR 10mp.

Mark Bau · 03-19-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ween

Sure it does...what if he's got his image quality in-camera set to Small/Normal (assuming he's using a Canon)? I'm guessing that could make a difference...

Well the question should have been "what jpg setting are you using?" It sounded a bit snobbish asking about his camera, as if it wasn't a good enough camera for RP.

Chris Starnes · 03-19-2009, 01:49 PM

Doug can you share your post processing work flow with us? Assuming you are shooting on the highest quality JPEG setting your camera will allow the image quality problem most likely lies in your post processing.

Joe the Photog · 03-19-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau

Well the question should have been "what jpg setting are you using?" It sounded a bit snobbish asking about his camera, as if it wasn't a good enough camera for RP.

How in the world did you came to that conclusion? I simply asked a question to try to narrow down the issues he's having. If he had come back and replied that it was some old, antiquated 2.1 mega pixel camera, then we may have said he's trying to do too much with it. That's not being snobbish; that's answering his question. I use an XTi; a fine camera, but not exactly top of the line. Others use a 5D or even more expensive cameras like the 1Ds Mark III. Why on earth would someone using a digital Rebel get "snobbish" about the camera someone else is using? You don't know me, sir, so next time leave me out of it or better yet don't think you know me.

I am an American though, and we see the other comments you're made about Americans, so why am I surprised?

Why does every thread on these forums lately turn into a tension-filled, sometimes heated, debate on everything under the sun? Some of you guys could take the fun out of a free BBQ complete with train rides, baseball games and fireworks.

You know, some of us come here to chat about the hobby, learn a new thing or two or share some tips. Other of you come here to bitch and moan and get into pissing matches with each other. Guys, this is supposed to be fun, but instead we're bitching about the definition of pruning and claiming others think that they "walk on water." That's not fun; it's just plain irritating.

Joe

JRMDC · 03-19-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau

Well the question should have been "what jpg setting are you using?" It sounded a bit snobbish asking about his camera, as if it wasn't a good enough camera for RP.

In addition to Joe's comments, I want to add that, in my opinion, yes as of 2009 there are lots of cameras that do not produce image quality for RP. They are all older digicams, P/S, whatever you want to call them. I have a number of Canon A80 shots here that would not be accepted if I uploaded them today. Any number of times in this forum we have seen people show rejects for image quality where the fundamental problem is the camera. So it was a valid question on that basis alone.

Just a few days ago someone asked about two of their shots. One was done with a Sony A200 but the other was done with some old digicam - don't recall which, the info was in the EXIF - and the quality difference was obvious.

Mark Bau · 03-19-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog

How in the world did you came to that conclusion? I simply asked a question to try to narrow down the issues he's having. If he had come back and replied that it was some old, antiquated 2.1 mega pixel camera, then we may have said he's trying to do too much with it. That's not being snobbish; that's answering his question. I use an XTi; a fine camera, but not exactly top of the line. Others use a 5D or even more expensive cameras like the 1Ds Mark III. Why on earth would someone using a digital Rebel get "snobbish" about the camera someone else is using? You don't know me, sir, so next time leave me out of it or better yet don't think you know me.

I am an American though, and we see the other comments you're made about Americans, so why am I surprised?

Why does every thread on these forums lately turn into a tension-filled, sometimes heated, debate on everything under the sun? Some of you guys could take the fun out of a free BBQ complete with train rides, baseball games and fireworks.

You know, some of us come here to chat about the hobby, learn a new thing or two or share some tips. Other of you come here to bitch and moan and get into pissing matches with each other. Guys, this is supposed to be fun, but instead we're bitching about the definition of pruning and claiming others think that they "walk on water." That's not fun; it's just plain irritating.

Joe

What takes the fun out of the hobby is people inferring that they have to have the latest and greatest camera to get decent results. One of the pics that is on RP that I took was with a 3.2 MP camera.

The shot suffered from over compression, end of story. His camera is of no consequence.

I do apologize if my post seemed inflammatory, it was not meant in that vein.

I've been seriously photographing for 30 years and when i started I had a pretty crummy 35mm camera, I was disheartened when "old heads" told me that I had to get a better camera, as if buying a better camera would magically make me produce better photos. I'm done with the pissing contests regarding equipment, just show me the photos.

JRMDC · 03-19-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bau

What takes the fun out of the hobby is people inferring that they have to have the latest and greatest camera to get decent results. One of the pics that is on RP that I took was with a 3.2 MP camera.

The shot suffered from over compression, end of story. His camera is of no consequence.

I do apologize if my post seemed inflammatory, it was not meant in that vein.

I've been seriously photographing for 30 years and when i started I had a pretty crummy 35mm camera, I was disheartened when "old heads" told me that I had to get a better camera, as if buying a better camera would magically make me produce better photos. I'm done with the pissing contests regarding equipment, just show me the photos.

The fact that "old heads" were wrong some 30 years ago doesn't mean that a different set of old heads is wrong now. The keys things are a) a good sensor, and b) a good way to choose the right exposure and focus. Back then, an important limiting factor was the sensor (film) and changing the body had nothing to do with it. Today, sensor quality has been improving by leaps and bounds and there is a big gap between older P/S and DSLRs and modern P/S especially on the high end.

You can still use a 3.2MP for RP but your technique has to be very good and low light is a big problem. On the other hand, even old DSLRs works fine, AB2 uses an original Canon dRebel with no problems as do others. And it came out in mid-2003!

JimThias · 03-19-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRMDC

On the other hand, even old DSLRs works fine, AB2 uses an original Canon dRebel with no problems as do others. And it came out in mid-2003!

Actually, he's using a 350D and not the 300D. I think Joe was originally using the 300D with great results, though.

JRMDC · 03-19-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimThias

Actually, he's using a 350D and not the 300D. I think Joe was originally using the 300D with great results, though.

Ah, it is a bug in my EXIF reader, maybe the text string is too long to show the "XT" at the end. The RP exif table does indeed show it as an XT.

Ween · 03-19-2009, 10:44 PM

I got Too Much Compression rejects with my original 2MP camera...I'm glad I upgraded though, even though my camera wasn't at issue...

JRMDC · 03-19-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ween

I got Too Much Compression rejects with my original 2MP camera...I'm glad I upgraded though, even though my camera wasn't at issue...

Isnt' too much compression just another bad quality rejection, an alternative to Poor Image Quality, and can't it be misapplied? Or is it pretty clear what the difference is? The last time I looked at different compression alternatives, I saw some comparative shots, the differences didn't seem to be different than what one might see with a better vs. poorer camera.

Doug Wolfe · 03-20-2009, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Starnes

Doug can you share your post processing work flow with us? Assuming you are shooting on the highest quality JPEG setting your camera will allow the image quality problem most likely lies in your post processing.

Hi Chris... I think I take some pretty basic steps since I have limited knowledge of how PS 6 works. (Which may be part of the issue.)

I usually get the picture to the right size first. Then if it is a hair dark I will lighten it up a bit. If I need to I will also level the shot. Then I usually sharpen it. I am taking J's advice for future sharpening and moving the slide to 12.

Here are 2 other jpeg rejections:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=299709233

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=940627252

Thanks again for all the comments & fun debate.

JRMDC · 03-20-2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Wolfe

I usually get the picture to the right size first. Then if it is a hair dark I will lighten it up a bit. If I need to I will also level the shot. Then I usually sharpen it. I am taking J's advice for future sharpening and moving the slide to 12.

If I am the J you are talking about, I didn't give you any advice about sharpening.

1) don't downsize first, downsize last or nearly so. Definitely do not downsize before rotating. (Because you need the extra information contained in all the pixels to get an accurate, detailed rotation. Afterward, you reduce size.)

2) for sharpening, at the end do Unsharp Mask and make your settings 75/0.6/0. Do it after downsizing. I'm not saying that is the right or perfect setting, but it is a good place to start.

Regarding the new stuff, I don't see the compression issues, maybe I don't have a good eye for that.

Doug Wolfe · 03-20-2009, 02:41 AM

Oh man...it's been a long day. I was talking about saving it at 12.

Anyway, I really appreciate the steps you have laid out for me. I will write them down and see what happens.

I have taken some jpeg rejections in the past and was able to get them accepted later by redoing them.

I just don't want to drive the screener's nuts with the same problem.

Thanks again for your great advice.