Old 07-10-2012, 05:10 AM   #1
Watain
-_-
 
Watain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hiltons, Virginia, USA
Posts: 953
Send a message via MSN to Watain
Default Image Quality Suggestions....

So I picked up a Nikon 14-24 f/2.8 lens back in early June, just now got a chance to point it at a train this evening when a storm was rolling in.

Now I can see the poor image quality, my question is why? This looks exactly like I shot it with my old D80 and 18-135 kit lens.

I think I may have gotten some rain on the giant front element and it may have smudged up the details, or the camera may have focused on something else..

It was also a 40% crop, but I'm using a full frame body..

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...06&key=7245496

Here's another example, (minus the Facebook image compression). It had a ton of detail except the nose being blurred, the train was flying..



Suggestions, tips, tricks? Its my first true ultra wide angle lens, and I want to start using it right..
Watain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 05:19 AM   #2
Indecline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 168
Default

Looks like motion blur. For W/A shoot somewhere around 1/850 or faster. Try for F8.0. If you have a full frame Nikon, crank the ISO to whatever will get you there, you won't have any noise issues. Use a solid tripod, too. It almost looks like you have some up and down camera movement, too. Don't drink Bourbon while shooting either, things will get real blurry.

Last edited by Indecline; 07-11-2012 at 05:13 AM.
Indecline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 05:34 AM   #3
Watain
-_-
 
Watain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hiltons, Virginia, USA
Posts: 953
Send a message via MSN to Watain
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indecline View Post
Looks like motion blur. For W/A shoot somewhere around 1/850 or faster. Try for F8.0. If you have a full frame Nikon, crank the ISO to whatever will get you there, you won't have any noise issues. Use a solid tripod, too. It almost looks like you have some up and own camera movement, too. Don't drink Bourbon while shooting either, things will get real blurry.
Oh no shooting under influence. And thanks, I'm using a D700, and I plan on picking up a decent tripod sometime soon, I was shooting at f/8, but I was only at ISO 400, and 1/200. I didn't give myself much time to set up, so it was pretty much a grab shot.
Watain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 07:43 AM   #4
Holloran Grade
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the California Republic
Posts: 2,774
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain View Post
....... I was shooting at f/8, but I was only at ISO 400, and 1/200. I didn't give myself much time to set up, so it was pretty much a grab shot.
1/200 should have frozen the movement good enough, assuming the train was only going 45 MPH or less (track speed at Fullerton).

If the train was going 60-70 MPH, then you will need to go about 1/500.

It looks like your lens focused on the area about 10 feet back from the cab which is why the nose is blurred.

Are you using a single focus point, or more than one?
Holloran Grade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 10:03 AM   #5
bigbassloyd
Senior Member
 
bigbassloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hilldale, West Virginia
Posts: 3,837
Default

I learned quickly after shooting the first couple of times with my 11-16 that you need to crank the shutter speed up to keep a moving object from blurring near the edges.

Loyd L.
__________________
Those who seek glory, must also seek infamy.

My personal photography site
bigbassloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 11:53 AM   #6
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Tip for down the road: ultrawides are cool, but you need to find interesting compositions. If your main use is to get a bit wider on a standard wedgie scene, you have wasted you money, IMHO.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 04:21 PM   #7
Watain
-_-
 
Watain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hiltons, Virginia, USA
Posts: 953
Send a message via MSN to Watain
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
1/200 should have frozen the movement good enough, assuming the train was only going 45 MPH or less (track speed at Fullerton).

If the train was going 60-70 MPH, then you will need to go about 1/500.

It looks like your lens focused on the area about 10 feet back from the cab which is why the nose is blurred.

Are you using a single focus point, or more than one?
I figured it would too, I'd say it was only going 35/40 though.. It looked fast. I was also using multiple focus points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd View Post
I learned quickly after shooting the first couple of times with my 11-16 that you need to crank the shutter speed up to keep a moving object from blurring near the edges.

Loyd L.
That's what I figured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
Tip for down the road: ultrawides are cool, but you need to find interesting compositions. If your main use is to get a bit wider on a standard wedgie scene, you have wasted you money, IMHO.
Yeah I know, and that's not my main goal. This was just a grab shot, I bought the lens it so I could put more thought into composition, and find some cool angles. I've got the 24-70 for high quality wedgies..


I hate to sound like a noob guys, but I've only used crop sensor cameras on trains for wide stuff, up to this point.
Watain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 04:24 PM   #8
Watain
-_-
 
Watain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hiltons, Virginia, USA
Posts: 953
Send a message via MSN to Watain
Default

Here's an example of just how wide this lens is.. 14mm no cropping.

Watain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 05:03 PM   #9
KevinM
Senior Member
 
KevinM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,066
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd View Post
I learned quickly after shooting the first couple of times with my 11-16 that you need to crank the shutter speed up to keep a moving object from blurring near the edges.

Loyd L.
Amen. If you're going super wide and the train has any speed, 1/200 isn't going to yield a sharp pic and the edges are indeed where it will be most apparent. I'd be going for 1/800 or better and cranking the ISO if needed to get there.
__________________
/Kevin

My RP stuff is here.

Link to my Flickr Albums. Lots of Steam Railroad stuff there from all over the US.

Last edited by KevinM; 07-11-2012 at 11:06 AM.
KevinM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:41 PM   #10
Holloran Grade
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the California Republic
Posts: 2,774
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain View Post
......... I was also using multiple focus points.............
Camera focused mid-cab, not on the front.

Use a single point and move it around to get the subject in focus where ever it is located in the frame.

Low light and headlights are always tricky with an auto focus.
Holloran Grade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 07:55 PM   #11
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
Camera focused mid-cab, not on the front.

Use a single point and move it around to get the subject in focus where ever it is located in the frame.
Or, pre-focus by pointing at a spot along the tracks where you want to catch the nose of the train.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 03:51 AM   #12
Watain
-_-
 
Watain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hiltons, Virginia, USA
Posts: 953
Send a message via MSN to Watain
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
Camera focused mid-cab, not on the front.

Use a single point and move it around to get the subject in focus where ever it is located in the frame.

Low light and headlights are always tricky with an auto focus.
That's what I figured happened, I mostly always use a single focus point, for everything, not just trains. Don't know why I chose different this time.
Watain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 03:55 AM   #13
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holloran Grade View Post
Camera focused mid-cab, not on the front.
Judging by the ballast below and in front of the train, and the grasses behind and to the right of the train, not to mention the extreme bottom of the shot generally, focus point/depth of field were just fine. Motion blur.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 04:25 AM   #14
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain View Post
I was shooting at f/8, but I was only at ISO 400, and 1/200.
1/200th. That's is the problem right there as others have pointed out. The distance the subject travels across the frame increase exponentially the wider you get. And that distance traveled during that long 1/200th is the reason for the blur as J said.

On a standard wedgie, I always want 1/500th of a second on anything above 15MP. Just to be sure. I would rather crank up the ISO and have noise and be sharp than no noise but soft.

Yes pick a focus point, definitely, but the focus distances we normally shoot at (with rather wide angles) renders the DOF issue usually moot.

I spent years dealing with keeping temperamental actors in focus on my Panavision Panaflex camera where my DOF of was often around 1 inch. Yes, one inch. But usually I worked about 5" DOF.
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 03:51 AM   #15
Watain
-_-
 
Watain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hiltons, Virginia, USA
Posts: 953
Send a message via MSN to Watain
Default

Yeah I figured that was the problem with that one, I just watched the meter in the view finder, instead of what I was shooting at. Still don't know what happened on the reject, guess it focused on something. And wow that's pretty cool that you were a cinematographer.
Watain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 10:37 PM   #16
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watain View Post
And wow that's pretty cool that you were a cinematographer.
Just to be clear, ahem, I should mention that I was for most of my career in the movies I was a First Camera Assistant. In the UK, they call them "Focus-Pullers's" which is descriptive. When the director said "Action" my job was to adjust the focus of the lens to make sure the actors remained sharp.

So shutter speed, ISO, aperture, focal length, DOF and focus distance was my work day.
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 12:58 AM   #17
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
I was for most of my career in the movies I was a First Camera Assistant.
I always wanted to meet a key grip or a best boy.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 03:20 AM   #18
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
I always wanted to meet a key grip or a best boy.
A key grip heads the grip department and a best boy is in either the grip or electrical dept. After having met me, a member of the camera department, it would only be a let down for you.
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 03:29 AM   #19
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Had I known of your stature, I would have treated you with considerably more respect all this time!
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 11:44 PM   #20
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMDC View Post
Had I known of your stature, I would have treated you with considerably more respect all this time!
I live for your approval J.

hehehe
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.