Old 01-11-2011, 05:56 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by cblaz View Post
That one's not a PCA winner (yet). I was talking about Robin's other shot:

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Photograph ©


Interestingly, the EXIF data on this shot, which was available when it was first posted (and showed a shutter speed of 1/500) has now conspicuously disappeared. The EXIF data on the shot Jim posted above is also not available, while the data is visible on all of Robin's other shots. Hmmmm.

I don't believe the admin have ever pulled a faked shot that won a PCA before, so it will be interesting to see what the response to this photo is.

- Chris

This is a genuine zoom pan at 1/30 - guess what - rejected, poor cropping

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...1&key=93209895


Something very odd going on with the screeners at the moment. Stuff getting in that is dubious at the very least - although I do like the effect of Robins shot, but I spotted the EXIF and thought, gotta be a fake.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:01 PM   #52
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Agreed, something VERY off with the screeners lately.
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:03 PM   #53
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This is a genuine zoom pan at 1/30 - guess what - rejected, poor cropping

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...1&key=93209895


Something very odd going on with the screeners at the moment. Stuff getting in that is dubious at the very least - although I do like the effect of Robins shot, but I spotted the EXIF and thought, gotta be a fake.
You are mixing concepts. Stuff is getting in that is outside the usual RP bounds. What does that have to do with a rejection of a shot, not a PEQ or on artistic grounds, but a simple crop issue? It wasn't rejected for being a zoom pan. Lots of shots get rejected initially. Don't associate your shot with the debate, your shot lies outside it.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:03 PM   #54
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Cool For the Record "I" Like the Disputed Image.

Something Jim pointed out in a side discussion, this is actually a pacing shot rather than a true pan.

Pacing Shot for those that don't know: The photographer and the subject are moving in roughly the same direction at about the same speed.

That is the only explanation of how the whole train is in focus assuming the shot is genuine and not digitally altered to create the blurred effect.

However that still does not account for the steam coming out of the stack the way it looks and the streaked clouds which leave me guessing.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:06 PM   #55
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You wish. As Mitch pointed out, he claimed it was at 1/25th, and removed the EXIF which had said 1/500th.
OMG! Creator of obvious misleading image misleads others about shutter speed!! Who'd have thought it? I bet he had a good chuckle to himself.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:16 PM   #56
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You are mixing concepts. Stuff is getting in that is outside the usual RP bounds. What does that have to do with a rejection of a shot, not a PEQ or on artistic grounds, but a simple crop issue? It wasn't rejected for being a zoom pan. Lots of shots get rejected initially. Don't associate your shot with the debate, your shot lies outside it.
Hi Janusz - merely comparing what an actual zoom pan looks like with Robins shot (good as it is), although I do find this rejection annoying.

There will always be inconsistencies in the screening process, but the gap between what is accepted and rejected (and I exclude my shot listed in this thread from this comparison) has recently become a yawning chasm
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:19 PM   #57
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Something Jim pointed out in a side discussion, this is actually a pacing shot rather than a true pan.

Pacing Shot for those that don't know: The photographer and the subject are moving in roughly the same direction at about the same speed.

That is the only explanation of how the whole train is in focus assuming the shot is genuine and not digitally altered to create the blurred effect.

However that still does not account for the steam coming out of the stack the way it looks and the streaked clouds which leave me guessing.
I assume you are still referring to Robin's shot - I know that location at King's Sutton and there is no way to pace a train there - no road
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:25 PM   #58
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I assume you are still referring to Robin's shot - I know that location at King's Sutton and there is no way to pace a train there - no road
Second train?


Hey Jim....

The plot thickens.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:32 PM   #59
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Mixing concepts, sure, but I believe what Steve is trying to say and others are eluding to, is that leeway is being given to some shots that have issues against them while other shots are not given the same lattitude.

Well, this is unlevel and the color has been altered and we have a blur tool being used to simulate a pan but we'll let it in. On the otherhand, this image is .01 percent unlevel.

Steve - you have a wild image there! I've suggested often to admin that the wording be revised to avoid getting those knee jerk reactions. A secondary note in a rejection, though some assume it's implied, would be "we will gladly accept this once corrected". Recall some photos have no margin for correction while photos such as yours do. I would bet that a very low percent of "centered" images get onto RP. You should be able to recrop and place your subject somewhere other then the direct center. If not, an appeal SHOULD suffice as it has been shown that certain "flaws" can be outweighed by other factors. In your case, those factors are technical skill verse Photoshop skills.

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Old 01-11-2011, 07:09 PM   #60
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Well, this is unlevel and the color has been altered and we have a blur tool being used to simulate a pan but we'll let it in. On the otherhand, this image is .01 percent unlevel.
My thoughts exactly. While I am happy to see a depature from the standard parade of wedge shots accepted to Railpictures, some of what has been getting on lately has been questionable at best. I have no problem with photoshopped pictures being accepted to the database; however, lately it seems like there has been a double standard in regards to these photos. Furthermore, I don't want to see this site come to the point where post processing skills are valued over what is captured directly from the camera. At the rate we're going we may as well ditch the "digitally manipulated" rejection altogether, as I'm getting fed up with the witch hunt that occurs here every time someone uploads an image that has been doctored in some way.

Much has changed in the photography world in the eight years Railpictures has existed. Digital manipulation was not nearly as commonplace then as it is today. This site needs to acknowledge that trend in a way other than the "black or white" manipulation rules we have now which are obviously being circumvented. Perhaps even make a separate category for "fake" photos that is exempt from PCA/POTW awards? A little far fetched, and it may create some issues as to where to draw the line. It would, however, permit manipulated photos to be accepted while still preserving the value of pure photography. Regardless, I think that something needs to be done about this issue before it gets completely out of hand.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:19 PM   #61
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:59 PM   #62
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Well, they're obvious fakes - The one under the bridge is extremely obvious, trains don't just blur like that. The pacing shot shows an exif of 1/500, so there's a good chance that it's fake as well, especially considering that the blur extends slightly onto the last car.
I don't mind these being accepted, and I don't mind them existing - Robin's an excellent photographer and photoshopper. Lying about photoshopping them, though? Black mark.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:31 PM   #63
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Mixing concepts, sure, but I believe what Steve is trying to say and others are eluding to, is that leeway is being given to some shots that have issues against them while other shots are not given the same lattitude.

Well, this is unlevel and the color has been altered and we have a blur tool being used to simulate a pan but we'll let it in. On the otherhand, this image is .01 percent unlevel.

/Mitch
Thanks Mitch - exactly. This trend appears to be increasing, with rejections for ever more minor transgressions of 'the rules'

Thanks for your comments on the rejection - I may play around with it and resubmit this weekend, or I may just put it on my Fotopic site. Its already classic rule of thirds composition, but thats what I wanted to show off the zoom blur.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:40 PM   #64
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..[omitted]...Lying about photoshopping them, though? Black mark.
I think that is a bit bold to state.

Where is there on the submission page to state such facts?

HDRs are excepted and they can run from being subtle to quite obvious.

I don't see any difference between an HDR and what Robin is alleged to have done.

Usually most people don't declare all the cloning and digital operations that they have done to a particular photo.

Sure there is the EXIF data but my software strips that out so you will never see it.

Want to call me out on something be my guest, but think long and hard cause I might not be real nice about it.

Based on observation and belief, I think most, if not all of the screeners are knowledgeable enough to know a photo shopped shot when they see it.

It is just when it is too photo shopped for their tastes that this rejection is used.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:42 PM   #65
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Read the thread thoroughly before replying...
Quote:
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1/25th at ISO 800 is what Robin stated the actual image was shot at in an e-mail response. Based on the blur on the driving rods, I accepted his claim though the lack of any blur on the plume is a bit puzzling. Here is a zoom pan of my own at 1/10th with a steam engine as the subject.

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Old 01-11-2011, 08:44 PM   #66
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Based on observation and belief, I think most, if not all of the screeners are knowledgeable enough to know a photo shopped shot when they see it.

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They must not live where there is snow...
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I personally have had a problem with those trying to tell us to turn railroad photography into an "art form." It's fine for them to do so, I welcome it in fact, but what I do have a problem with is that the practitioners of the more "arty" shots, I have found, tend to look down their nose's at others who are shooting more "mundane" shots.
Railroad photography is what you make of it, but one way is not "better" than another, IMHO. Unless you have a pole right thought the nose of the engine! -SG
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:54 PM   #67
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Read the thread thoroughly before replying...
Sometimes I question which is worse, the ridiculous responses to stories on AOL news stories or the oh so eloquently phrased retorts by some on the forums of RP...

Matthew - this was a direct response to Lloyd's question.

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Mitch, where did you get that 1/25th from? I'm not a math genius, but I know 10/5000 doesn't reduce down to 1/25th
Loyd L.
Maybe you could be so kind as to point out which of the 45 responses you claim I have overlooked.


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Old 01-11-2011, 09:04 PM   #68
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Sometimes I question which is worse, the ridiculous responses to stories on AOL news stories or the oh so eloquently phrased retorts by some on the forums of RP...
If you provoke me, I am going to drop the Troy Bomb or paint you with my broad brush of stupidity.

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Old 01-11-2011, 09:43 PM   #69
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Everyone needs to be painted with a broad brush of stupidity sometimes
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:09 PM   #70
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If you provoke me, I am going to drop the Troy Bomb or paint you with my broad brush of stupidity.

Oh and if you don't understand that - Fuck Off!
Any way we can watch our language here? I have kids who sometimes look over my shoulder at the computer and while an F word here and there ain't going to damage them for life, I fail to see the need for that language on a railroad board where all ages are welcome.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:12 PM   #71
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Sometimes I question which is worse, the ridiculous responses to stories on AOL news stories or the oh so eloquently phrased retorts by some on the forums of RP...

Matthew - this was a direct response to Lloyd's question.



Maybe you could be so kind as to point out which of the 45 responses you claim I have overlooked.


/Mitch
Mitch, Matt was using YOUR quote as evidence to back up his comment that El Roco questioned. He wasn't directing any of that comment toward you.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:19 PM   #72
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I have kids who sometimes look over my shoulder at the computer and while an F word here and there ain't going to damage them for life, I fail to see the nee for that language on a railroad oard where all ages are welcome.
We wouldn't wan them to ick up any bad abits, eh Joe.

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Old 01-11-2011, 10:22 PM   #73
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Mitch;

My wife handles their keyboarding homework.

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Old 01-11-2011, 10:26 PM   #74
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Any way we can watch our language here? I have kids who sometimes look over my shoulder at the computer and while an F word here and there ain't going to damage them for life, I fail to see the need for that language on a railroad board where all ages are welcome.
That is fine.

Are you just staying with the seven words you can't say on TV, or is titties and/or boobies too much too?

And your going to need to edit your post cause the F word is still in it.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:26 PM   #75
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Mitch, Matt was using YOUR quote as evidence to back up his comment that El Roco questioned. He wasn't directing any of that comment toward you.
Ah, if only his thread started out with "El Roco, I suggest..." or Matthew included the quote from El Roco.

Thanks for the clarification - seems obvious now.

My comment STILL stands, though it no longer applies to Matt!

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