Old 04-12-2007, 06:18 AM   #1
Will
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Default Any Saving These?

Like everyone else I need some advice on some rejections

First off:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo1.jpg
Was originally rejected for not being level with the horizon which I fixed, now being rejected for bad lighting.

Also:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3067.JPG
Rejected for bad crop, I tried:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo2.jpg
Rejected for bad crop again.

Also any point even trying to submit this one:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3112.JPG
I would crop it before submission but wanted comments on the original.

Will

Last edited by Will; 04-12-2007 at 06:20 AM.
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 02:49 PM   #2
Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
Senior Member
 
Andrew Blaszczyk (2)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlboro, NJ
Posts: 1,956
Send a message via AIM to Andrew Blaszczyk (2) Send a message via Yahoo to Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will
Like everyone else I need some advice on some rejections

First off:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo1.jpg
Was originally rejected for not being level with the horizon which I fixed, now being rejected for bad lighting.

Also:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3067.JPG
Rejected for bad crop, I tried:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo2.jpg
Rejected for bad crop again.

Also any point even trying to submit this one:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3112.JPG
I would crop it before submission but wanted comments on the original.

Will
Will,

I actually really like the first shot, but that fence on the lower left doesn't do anything for me. It is still unlevel by looking at the open door on the first car so I would concentrate on that.

I don't understand why the rework of the second was rejected. The crop right to the top of the trees is fine.

I wouldn't bother with the third one.
__________________
-Andrew Blaszczyk a.k.a. AB(2)
Proud fan of the Sabres, Islanders, Rockies, and Lions.

"My camera is an artistic medium, not a tool of terrorism."

www.ab2photography.com Coming soon!
My photos on RailPictures:
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=960

Last edited by Andrew Blaszczyk (2); 04-12-2007 at 02:59 PM.
Andrew Blaszczyk (2) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 04:01 PM   #3
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will
Like everyone else I need some advice on some rejections

First off:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo1.jpg
Was originally rejected for not being level with the horizon which I fixed, now being rejected for bad lighting.
It's a nice picture overall, but the nose looks just terrible, it is so blown out. If you can't take care of this through some serious processing, then I think it never gets in. The blue thing in the lower right corner does not help, and the fence isn't great but I don't feel as strongly about that as Andrew does. But the primary issue is not those, or the rotation, it's the blown out nose.

Quote:
Also:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3067.JPG
Rejected for bad crop, I tried:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo2.jpg
Rejected for bad crop again.
In my opinion, the image just isn't that interesting. You did crop out some empty space, but there is more. Lots of uninteresting space upper left, right side. One suggestion, before you abandon, is to try a vertical, as I have attached. Notice how all the essential elements of the shot - train, detail on train roof, signal, white-capped mountains in background, trackside "thingie" on right edge, are still there, despite having cut out maybe 2/3s of the original.

Note that I personally would still not accept it, most of the image is in the dark, but tastes differ, as I have repeatedly found out over the years! See what you think, and maybe see what RP thinks.

Third shot, forget about it. The subject is quite dark and backlit, and the image has nothing else of merit - it's just a portion of an engine and some trees and snow. I'm not intending to be harsh for fun, I am trying to be constructive in giving reasons. It's a quick snapshot with bad light, and images at RP are held to a higher standard. Take a look around the database and get a sense of the level of quality here. (Your first shot is pretty good in that respect - too bad about the nose.) You are new to the forum and I hope you will quickly realize that this is a great place to learn how to greatly improve the quality of your pictures. Welcome!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg photo2b.jpg (38.2 KB, 228 views)
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots

Last edited by JRMDC; 04-12-2007 at 04:08 PM.
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 06:25 PM   #4
WetRailsWA
Senior Member
 
WetRailsWA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 101
Send a message via MSN to WetRailsWA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will
Will - I partially agree with JRMDC's assessment of "third shot." Probably not a RailPictures.net shot, but...I like it anyway, and think it's a good personal pic with some moodiness.

I think the image should be tilted so the vertical lines on the side of the locomotive match the right photo border. Give it some more contrast and brighten it a bit. Sort of like the attachment I added to this post.

Keep it up, man. We'll all get better together.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PDRM3112a.jpg (67.2 KB, 214 views)
__________________
Kurt Clark
WetRailsWA

WetRailsWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 07:18 PM   #5
Will
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Default

Thanks for the comments, I don't think I'll try to (re)submit any of these images anyways, I personally wouldn't know how to fix up that nose in the first picture with photo editing software.

For the second picture, the crop was a bit to tight for my liking but thanks for the effort.

Third picture I was in a rush to take, crew let us off in the middle of no where between Prince George and Prince Rupert since the engineers were stopped waiting for manual dispatch over the radio so didn't have to much time to take the picture besides it being made up of trees, snow and trains.
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 09:18 PM   #6
a231pacific
Senior Member
 
a231pacific's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 822
Default

Will,

If you shot the picture as a jpeg, my guess is the blown out highlights are just that, blown out, but if you have a camera that shoots in RAW, there may be salvageable detail in the highlights.

I noticed that Andrew didn't like the fence in the first shot and I agree with him, but possibly for a different reason. There isn't enough of it there to be anything other than a distraction. If you took the photo wider, and this was a crop, you might do better to include a bit more of the fence and also more of the blue work sign. As it is, the sign just sort of sits in the corner of the frame with no context.

I feel that many railfan photographers often crop too tightly, focusing entirely on the train. Sometimes this is good, sometimes not so good. I think your shot would have benefited from more space around the train. If you can't cut the fence out entirely, leave more of it in, as an element in the photo.

Michael Allen

Last edited by a231pacific; 04-14-2007 at 05:12 AM.
a231pacific is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 10:38 PM   #7
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Default

Can't really add much to what others have said, except to tell you I really like the first shot (great lighting) and the second shot is pretty good as well. The problem with the first shot is the cropping and mitigating the blown out color on part of the nose. But without knowing what the original looked like, can't really suggest how to fix the crop. I'm surprised the second got rejected. It's a nice view, and I like the wide crop better than the train-centric close crop except maybe for cutting out some of the dark tree area on the left.

John West
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2007, 05:05 AM   #8
Will
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Default

The original is at http://railfan.homeunix.com/PDRM3211.JPG my camera just takes JPEG so unfortunately no RAW picture to play with.

As for the crop idea, I came up with http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo3.jpg which I like better than the vertical crop.
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2007, 05:54 AM   #9
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Default

Here is a quick and dirty from me. I would have liked a broader view with more of the station and surroundings, this is a pretty tight train-centric view but is the best I could fit in. I also used the shadow/highlight tool to try to dull the glare a bit but it is still a bit bright. It is an interesting train, the mountains are wonderful, and I like the lighting (except for the glare).

John West
Attached Images
File Type: jpg jasperpic.jpg (114.6 KB, 195 views)
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 05:16 AM   #10
a231pacific
Senior Member
 
a231pacific's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 822
Default

I think John's crop could get in. The glare isn't too bad and the removing the blue sigh helped. Like John, I'd have liked more of the station area shown on the left side, but in looking at the original, it just isn't there. Still, I agree with John, interesting train, interesting lighting and great scenery. Give it another go.

Michael Allen
a231pacific is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:00 PM   #11
Will
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Default

Thanks I like your editing on it John, as suggested I may try and resubmit that one do you have a bigger copy of that crop as it doesn't have the size for railpictures / is it ok if I submit your crop?

Will
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:10 PM   #12
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Default

Please do. But you might try fiddling with it a bit more, I was called for dinner in the middle of working on it and had to hurry. I think the crop can be improved (try cropping just a bit more off the right). And see if you can dull the glare on the nose just a bit more, but watch out for the kind of weird stuff that happpens when you push PS too far. The picture has grown on me, I love the lighting, and will be disapppointed if it is not accepted.

John
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2007, 07:56 PM   #13
Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
Senior Member
 
Andrew Blaszczyk (2)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlboro, NJ
Posts: 1,956
Send a message via AIM to Andrew Blaszczyk (2) Send a message via Yahoo to Andrew Blaszczyk (2)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John West
The picture has grown on me, I love the lighting, and will be disapppointed if it is not accepted.

John
Same here
__________________
-Andrew Blaszczyk a.k.a. AB(2)
Proud fan of the Sabres, Islanders, Rockies, and Lions.

"My camera is an artistic medium, not a tool of terrorism."

www.ab2photography.com Coming soon!
My photos on RailPictures:
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=960
Andrew Blaszczyk (2) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2007, 11:55 PM   #14
Will
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Default

I'm no expert at photoshop, this is the best I could come up with:
http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo4.jpg

I did about 30% in the shadow/highlight tool, and cropped it a bit tighter. Still a bit bright on the nose but better, any other suggestions for editing it? Should I try to submit as is?

Thanks for all the help
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 12:05 AM   #15
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Cool

Pretty, good. Now let me split some hairs.

You might have cropped a bit too close to the nose, it is starting to look crowded to me on the right side. Way in the background of the original is the top of a telephone pole. I would crop it just to the right edge of the cross arms (so the pole shows). In my version you can see that I left just a bit of space between the crossarms and the edge....and that was just enough to be too much space. We're splitting hairs here but the tightness of this version might be just enough to cause a screener to reject it for bad crop.

Make sure you leave as much space at the bottom of the original allows. The original was a tight crop and with the exception of the dead space on the right, you want to take advantage of all the rest of the room you have.

The right side of the nose still looks blown out. I assume you have done as much as you know how to do to mitigate that. If you have a highlight/showdows tool in your version of PS, try that. It will automatically lighten the shadows by 50 percent....set the shadows back to zero. The use the darken highlights tool to see how much you can darken the blown out yellow until it starts to look funny. Then backoff a bit.

Your're pretty close but I really like the picture an want to give it every chance of being accepted.

John

Last edited by John West; 04-16-2007 at 12:13 AM.
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 01:07 AM   #16
Will
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Default

Did you do the entire nose in the shadow/highlight tool or did you split it in half and do more adjustments on the right side? If so what tool did you use to select the regions? In the next version I'll fix up the crop. Going to take a bit more detailed look at it tommarow and see what I can come up with.
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 01:23 AM   #17
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Cool

After my last post I went back to Photoshop and played around with the nose. I tried to use, I think it's called the magic wand tool, to select just the bright part of play with, but even after adjusting the sensitivity I couldn't get a select that I was satisfied with. My one attempt to do it that way ended up with a strange looking nose. So I simply applied the shadow/highlight tool to the whole picture (again zeroing out the auto 50 percent lightening of the shadows) and just played with the darken highlights slider. What happens of course is the darker side of the nose also darkens, and after awhile that starts to look too dark. And even at maximum darkening the bright side still looks blown out. Even though the whole picture was selected, the changes seemed to affect only the nose, since the rest of the picture is pretty much mid-tone. So the best I can suggest is to use the shadow/highlight tool to darken the bright side just a bit, to at least mitigate the brightness. That's what I did on the version I posted. I think the result is okay, and still gives you a great picture. Whether the screeners will agree I don't know. I might add, there are some folks here who are at lot better with PS then I am, and perhaps they can improve on the above suggestions.

John

Last edited by John West; 04-16-2007 at 01:27 AM.
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 01:34 AM   #18
a231pacific
Senior Member
 
a231pacific's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 822
Default

Where's Christine? Haven't heard from her in a bit. She would know what to do!

Michael Allen
a231pacific is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 02:03 AM   #19
John West
Senior Curmudgeon
 
John West's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mill Valley, CA
Posts: 1,081
Default

Yeah, Christine is exactly who I was thinking of. Or Alan.

John
John West is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 03:17 AM   #20
Will
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Default

In the last copy I posted I actually just adjusted the colors of the nose, not the whole picture I used the rectangular select to get all of the nose and unfortunately a bit of the surrounding area and adjusted it like that. I'll see if I'm able to select just the bright part of the nose, and hopefully not make it look awkward.
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 03:24 AM   #21
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

I was feeling very Christine-ish tonight! What i did was to select the blown out area with the lasso tool, go to brightness/contrast and reduce the brightness and up the contrast (a bit on the latter), up the saturation to put back some of the yellow the previous step took away, reduce highlights some more, do another brightness/contrast adjustment, and (importantly, as it turns out), apply a warming filter at a strong 50%. The last step recovers from the really ugly color that comes out of the shadows/highlights and brightness/contrast tools.

What is left is some splotchyness on the nose with spots of whiter areas. So I think about how to merge areas that are different, and I go to noise reduction, at the maximum, with 100% reduction of color noise. I then lighten (!) with brightness, increase saturation again to bring the yellow back again, reduce brightness (could probably have saved a step here somewhere! ), and go with it.

Notice that the VIA and Canada decals are gone - they were gone in the original as the sun reflected strongly off them and turned them white despite the underlying black. Not sure what to do about those, except MORE time in software!

Anyway, there it is, for all to ponder and peruse!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg photo4.jrm2.jpg (207.1 KB, 122 views)
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 03:28 AM   #22
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

BTW, I find excessive noise reduction leads to interesting watercolor-like effects, fun to mess around with:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CSX.SavageMD073006Q261.jpg (147.5 KB, 121 views)
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 04:10 AM   #23
Will
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Default

Thanks for all the help, this is what I managed to come up with which is similar to JRMDC. The numbering is a bit clearer in mine, I used the magnetic lasso to try and adjust some areas a bit more than others.

http://railfan.homeunix.com/photo6.jpg
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 04:35 AM   #24
Switched out
Senior Member
 
Switched out's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a231pacific
Where's Christine? Haven't heard from her in a bit. She would know what to do!

Michael Allen
Sorry Guys, been wasting my time thinking up funny one liners for the Dead space thread

Apart from the basics and adding a little more contrast I used one of my favourite plugins for photoshop "Velvia Vision" from Fred Miranda. It has an option for adding more dynamic range to the image as well has a few other tricks. By adding some dynamic range it as put some life into the dark area along the side of the train. You could do this by fiddling with the curves tool but it takes to long. As for the nose treatment I toned it down a little by shifting it's colour to match the side of the loco a little more and then knocking the saturation back a little.

Cheers,

Christine.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Via-in-the-hills-PSrw.jpg (157.1 KB, 118 views)
Switched out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 04:49 AM   #25
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Honestly, Christine, I love your stuff, but in this instance I prefer Will's effort. For my tastes, yours puts too much light on the side - it was in shadow before, and to considerable extent I believe that in shadow it should remain. And it jazzes up too much around the train also (can one run the plug in on a selected area?). I like the mountains darker.

BTW Will, haven't said it yet, but I love how the back end of the train picks up some sort of secondary light source for the glint. Is that a reflection off another train?

J

PS Yes, in my original post, I gave up on this one too soon! Whether it gets in or not.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.