Old 06-05-2008, 06:23 PM   #1
Rui Nunes
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Default Begginers doubts

Hi everyone!

Being an apprentice when it comes to photography i'd like to know what can I do about this picture (regarding Photoshop that is).

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=532775&key=0

She got rejected for " Poor Lighting (High Sun): The angle of the sunlight is too high, a common problem in the summer months of year on mid-day shots" and only this. Is there anything that can be done?

I've already made adjustments regarding brightness/contrast and shadow/highlight

Thanks in advance,
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:34 PM   #2
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Welcome to the boards.

Unfortunately there is no fix for high sun. It means that the picture was taken at a time when the sun was casting shadows all over the train.

The only thing you can do is take the picture again when the sun is low in the sky (morning and evening).
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:54 AM   #3
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I did that... I took this other picture at 08:36 a.m. and got the same response... The train is a different one though as well as the spot

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1296702846

EDIT: she got rejected at first for unlevel horizon and being a bit dark, but I fixed that and re-uploaded it. Then I got the response listed above

Last edited by Rui Nunes; 06-06-2008 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:15 AM   #4
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Looks like the place to be was on the other side of the tracks - the dark side of the train is where you were.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:50 AM   #5
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Look at the pole shadow the light is down the rail. you need the light on the front and sides you can see. Look at your shadow is the trick by get it to point to the train. Plan you shots for the light to.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:08 AM   #6
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Thanks, will keep that in mind
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rui Nunes
I did that... I took this other picture at 08:36 a.m. and got the same response... The train is a different one though as well as the spot

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1296702846

EDIT: she got rejected at first for unlevel horizon and being a bit dark, but I fixed that and re-uploaded it. Then I got the response listed above
They really need to come up with a new rejection for direct, head-on lighting that leaves the side of the train poorly lit. It's obvious the sun isn't high in the shot based on the reflection of the sun on the front of the cab. Unfortunately, as already stated, you're on the dark side of the train. But I suspect at this location both sides of the train would appear to be dark due to the direct nose lighting. Hence, the only shot that would have worked at this location would be the train coming directly toward you.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:28 PM   #8
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As stated here, a directly head on sun, even very early in the morning, will cast terrible shadows on the side of the train. You have to find a curve in the track where some of the light hits the side of the train, or simply take just a head on shot.

Use your shadow as a pointer.
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:34 PM   #9
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So, if I understood correctly for this kind of picture to work, my shadow would have to be at a... 45 angle (+ / - ) ? Supposing that I am in the center of a x and y axis system...
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:58 PM   #10
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You're over thinking it.

You simply want to be in a position that your shadow is pointing at the object you are shooting. Thing of your shadow as an arrow, with your head as the arrow head. Move yourself into a position so that you are aiming your shadow at the train.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:17 PM   #11
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Got it! Thanks
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rui Nunes
So, if I understood correctly for this kind of picture to work, my shadow would have to be at a... 45 angle (+ / - ) ? Supposing that I am in the center of a x and y axis system...
Here is a diagram for reference. Just find a spot where the tracks go at an angle in relation to the sun, and then shoot on the sun side of the train for a wedgie:
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:28 PM   #13
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The issue is as much the subject matter as it is the lighting.

Both pictures are technically good pictures. Indeed the low angle and the clouds in the first picture add a bit of interest to the composition, and the lighting is good. The second picture is okay, although it does have lighting issues. Both could use a bit of additional cropping. In the first one I'd crop out some of the autos on the left, and in the second one I'd crop some of the uninteresting brush on the left.

But neither picture is particularly interesting.

The first is a very good "record" picture of the equipment. But that kind of equipment picture needs almost perfect lighting to work, unless it is something really unusual or historic. Personally I think your first picture should have been accepted, but obviously the screener was holding that kind of picture to a very high standard with regard to lighting.

The second picture is not well lit, and there is nothing interesting enough in the image to overcome the poor lighting. The same kind of lighting in a scenic location might have made it.

My point in all this is I would focus on content and composition as much as lighting. EMU operations by their nature tend not to be very dramatic. The trains are short and usually in urban locations. But urban locations can offer some very interesting "scenery" if you look for it, and in many cases the catenary can provide some fascinating visuals.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:38 PM   #14
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What about those days when there is no Sun? Actually I kind of like them, as the clouds create a nice contrast with the rest of the picture. Take this one, for example:



And with the same DMU as in the first picture, but in a totally different scenario (the longest bridge on this branch of track)

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Old 06-06-2008, 08:08 PM   #15
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Cloudy days are almost always a non-starter. Heavy rain, on the other hand, can work if exposed correctly.

Your bridge shot is great. Can't imagine that one being rejected. Have you submitted?
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:15 PM   #16
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Yes... And it got rejected for "Unlevel horizon". But if you draw a grid on Photoshop ( Ctrl + ' ) you'll see that the buildings on the rear are vertically alligned. And I mentioned that on my rejection appeal, but received this answer:

"The wide angle distortion shows that the image is leaning to the left quite heavily."
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:36 PM   #17
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It is going to be extremely difficult to get a picture level based on tiny object within it. Instead, you have a huge object, the bridge. Use it! An important tip is to look at vertical lines instead of horizontals. Level things don't appear level when one looks up or down on it, or if it is receding into the distance. But a vertical will, generally speaking, always be a vertical.

Rotate the image until the vertical girders in the bridgework are truly vertical.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:45 PM   #18
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"The wide angle distortion shows that the image is leaning to the left quite heavily."[/quote]
Image-transform-skew Drag the bottom right side to the left till the pear is vertical. and then crop till it looks like this one.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:49 PM   #19
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Did so already and re-uploaded it. Thank you all for the tips
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:03 PM   #20
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Well, the answer didn't take much time to arrive... Bad-cropping this time.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rui Nunes
Well, the answer didn't take much time to arrive... Bad-cropping this time.
I'd appeal. I can see how they may have hit you for cutting the front of the bridge off, but I personally think that's a matter of taste (some don't like it, some do). I'd at least appeal once.
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:55 AM   #22
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Did so, but no luck:

"Your appeal for photo id 533221 has been processed and has been rejected.
Admin Comments >> The photo is poorly balanced, and also unlevel."
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:27 PM   #23
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I'm sorry on that one. I do like it.

I'm guessing that they wanted to see more of the bridge (but I'm guessing).
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:46 PM   #24
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Back to what Jim said, they need to come up with a new rejection name for head on lighting. Andrew said he's going to be taking some time to come up with a new rejection grid. This is one he needs to tackle.

I think the acceptance/rejection criteria have developed in an ad hoc manner over time. Perhaps they need to start with a clean sheet of paper. It might be a good idea to present the new criteria for forum input before they are implemented. Sure, there will be a lot of nit picking and arguing over trivia, but I expect they might get some valuable input too.

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Old 06-07-2008, 03:52 PM   #25
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Personally I don't mind having my pictures rejected as long as the reason is somewhat coherent ( I have no idea if this is how you write it )... Furthermore, considering the equipment that I use, Sony CyberShot DSC-P10, I would be thrilled if one of my pics made it into the gallery


EDIT: well well, it happened
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