Pro vs Anti RP

[Ween]

Originally Posted by lock4244

Wedgie = Basehit
Semi-Artsy = Homerun

Question, can baseball exist without either of these?

Is a rejection overturned on appeal considered a Hit By Pitch? [/needs to stop uploading on weekends]

[lock4244]

Originally Posted by Ween

Is a rejection overturned on appeal considered a Hit By Pitch? [/needs to stop uploading on weekends]

I'm thinking it's a walk, but don't quote me

[Bryant Kaden]

One last thing I wanted to add to the conversation about being pro RP. Without this site, I would be a complete lone wolf railfan. Not only would fewer people see my photographs, I would have fewer connections with others active in the hobby. When I moved to my current home a year and a half ago, one of the first things I did was send a contact email to a rp photographer whose work I saw from the area and asked about good photo locations. Once I started posting my own shots from the area, another person contacted me and invited me to join a yahoo group, and through that I've connected with several people that I consider friends, even apart from the hobby. So I just wanted to lift up the social aspect of all of this. How many of you have forged friendships that would have been unlikely or even impossible without this site?

[Joe the Photog]

I think getting a shot in by appeal is more like a coach throwing a red flag in the NFL. The only thing that would make it more like that is when you appeal a shot that is over turned, maybe RP should take a shot of yours in the database out.

[Dennis A. Livesey]

Originally Posted by Bryant Kaden

One last thing I wanted to add to the conversation about being pro RP. Without this site, I would be a complete lone wolf railfan. Not only would fewer people see my photographs, I would have fewer connections with others active in the hobby. When I moved to my current home a year and a half ago, one of the first things I did was send a contact email to a rp photographer whose work I saw from the area and asked about good photo locations. Once I started posting my own shots from the area, another person contacted me and invited me to join a yahoo group, and through that I've connected with several people that I consider friends, even apart from the hobby. So I just wanted to lift up the social aspect of all of this. How many of you have forged friendships that would have been unlikely or even impossible without this site?

I would say I have made about 5 RP friends that I have actually stood side by side by taking pictures. I admire their work and I know they like some of mine.

There are about a dozen or so more I am in e-mail friendships with.

I would never have met them otherwise.

[ottergoose]

Bah. I was attempting to write a retort to BarrySr's quote about me fostering a cancerous, elitist attitude, but I couldn't write anything that didn't come across as elitist!

I wasn't trying to put down anyone born before 1980, I was just trying to make an argument that quick, honest feedback can develop talent pretty quickly.

I've made a lot of friends through RailPictures. The only one that I couldn't stand being around, on account of old age, was Jim Thias

[Freericks]

Originally Posted by ottergoose

I've made a lot of friends through RailPictures. The only one that I couldn't stand being around, on account of old age, was Jim Thias

Um... who else is offended that the person he picked as being too old was born too late to remember the first man landing on the moon?

[travsirocz]

Originally Posted by Freericks

Um... who else is offended that the person he picked as being too old was born too late to remember the first man landing on the moon?

We went to the moon!

[Walter S]

Originally Posted by travsirocz

We went to the moon!

Yes Travis, we sent a rocket up there a week or so ago searching for ice water. Maybe one day a man may actually walk on the moon!!! That would be awesome!

[jnohallman]

What I want to know is how they got that green cheese to spray up in a plume like that when the "rocket" smashed into it. I bet it's all just a CGI trick . . .

Jon

[ottergoose]

Originally Posted by Ween

Is a rejection overturned on appeal considered a Hit By Pitch? [/needs to stop uploading on weekends]

Depends on if it's a wedgie from North Dakota or Colorado

[Wizzo]

Originally Posted by ottergoose

!

I wasn't trying to put down anyone born before 1980, I was just trying to make an argument that quick, honest feedback can develop talent pretty quickly.

Thats how I read it anyway and I was born wayyyyyyyyyy before 1980 and I agree about the feedback cycle.

[JimThias]

Originally Posted by ottergoose

I've made a lot of friends through RailPictures. The only one that I couldn't stand being around, on account of old age, was Jim Thias

I'm so hurt, man...

Originally Posted by Freericks

Um... who else is offended that the person he picked as being too old was born too late to remember the first man landing on the moon?

Hey now, I remember that! I was 2 years old and you damn well bet my parents had me propped up in front of the TV!

[travsirocz]

Originally Posted by JimThias

[img]


Hey now, I remember that! I was 2 years old and you damn well bet my parents had me propped up in front of the TV!

I guess I didn't know we went to the moon in the 30's.


ps. You really look younger then you are.
pss. I'm not hitting on you.

[BarrySr]

Originally Posted by ottergoose

Bah. I was attempting to write a retort to BarrySr's quote about me fostering a cancerous, elitist attitude, but I couldn't write anything that didn't come across as elitist!

I wasn't trying to put down anyone born before 1980, I was just trying to make an argument that quick, honest feedback can develop talent pretty quickly.

I've made a lot of friends through RailPictures. The only one that I couldn't stand being around, on account of old age, was Jim Thias

Reminds me of the time I came up on an older gent at Settegast, back in the 80s, who drove around and stalled for the longest trying to get a shot of an MP blue U30C, only to be haranged by open doors, just a few clouds in the sky that seemed to hover over the right spot for what seemed like eternity. He told me that it was no use, it was a lost cause, and told me in no uncertain terms he'd had it and I'd do good to just consider it a lost cause. The guy was genuinely livid.

So what does the young twenty-something do but get out the handy-dandy door closer, walk up to the unit, shut the front door then go to the side and shut the hood door, then walk back and see that it was not quite in the sweet spot; went up to the hostler on another track and asked if JB was in his office, then went in and arranged for the unit to be moved a couple of lengths north. Told the guy beforehand to just hold on, let me do a few things. (The diesel shop supt. was a good friend of mine, so I was not going to let a good catch get away)

Before I rolled off a few yards of K25 on the beauty, I said a really confident sounding "That do it for ya?", and then was treated to the rudest, most invective laced 10 minute diatribe from a red-faced madder-than-hell old curmudgeon who proceeded to tell me how he'd driven around repeatedly, passed up other stuff at Englewood only to have his time wasted here waiting for the clouds, the hostlers and God knows what else for this *&(^&%$ unit, only to have me just "happen" by and steal his opportunity. He genuinely was pissed at me because of his misfortune. He got in his car, squealed and burned rubber on the parking lot and whisked himself right out of there still yelling.

Only to have the HB&T special agent pursue him and catch up with him at the north end of the yard. Didn't stick around to ask him about that.

Point was that I came out of that with a VERY sour opinion of older fans. Here I did the guy a favor by using my contacts to get a nice catch for he and I, only to be berated for my efforts. I didn't have thick skin then, and it took years to get rid of the sour thoughts I had for older fans. But I did, and now image #255599 reminds me of that day.

PhotoID: 255599 Photograph © Barry Byington Sr.

So I can see both sides in that twenty-somethings now sometimes see older photogs in a somewhat disdainful light when they try to help out and then get berated for their efforts by those "sloped" individuals (hope ya'll know what I mean by that) who go off the deep end rather than take constructive criticism.

Well, enough of that trip down memory lane. And Larry, from where you are, surely up above, I can just see you laughing WITH me, as we had MANY a cold one and many a railfan trip since that day! It was real, it was nice, and it was really nice to get past that and enjoy many slides and many lessons about better slide photography from you in the years hence!

[Freericks]

People are people, as the cliche goes... when I was a kid railfanning I ran into curmudgeons sure, but most of the older railfans I met trackside were nice guys willing to give advice and some friendly conversation.

I think if I'd ever run into a situation like Barry did I would have been so flumoxed that I wouldn't have known what to do. There's not really much that you can do about crazy.

[John West]

Many many years ago I was on an 844 charter across Wyoming run by the R&LHS. Fred Stindt was running the show, and he had been chasing trains since long before I was born. He had seen it all, and one more picture made little difference to him. But I was a newbie, and as we were getting ready to leave Green River just before sunset I asked if we could get one last shot of the 844 crossing the bridge just west of town with the famous butte in the background. Fred politely but firmly said we were late and didn't have time. But a group of us newbies were there for photos not the the train ride, and were determined to get this classic shot. We told Fred we would walk across the bridge and if the train stopped to pick us up, fine, if not we'd spend the night at Green River and find our own way home. The good news is the train stopped for us. The bad news is we lost our light and the picture I got wasn't worth the effort. But it was fun.

[lock4244]

Originally Posted by BarrySr

Before I rolled off a few yards of K25 on the beauty, I said a really confident sounding "That do it for ya?", and then was treated to the rudest, most invective laced 10 minute diatribe from a red-faced madder-than-hell old curmudgeon who proceeded to tell me how he'd driven around repeatedly, passed up other stuff at Englewood only to have his time wasted here waiting for the clouds, the hostlers and God knows what else for this *&(^&%$ unit, only to have me just "happen" by and steal his opportunity. He genuinely was pissed at me because of his misfortune. He got in his car, squealed and burned rubber on the parking lot and whisked himself right out of there still yelling.

Try and do someone a favour, this is what you get. I think you should get some sort of prize, Barry... you found the biggest asshole on earth! I've dealt with some strange railfans, but never a jerk, let alone an ass of this magnitude.

[Mgoldman]

Wow...
Is the above thread available in Cliff Notes or DVD?
Lot's to read coming in a day late...

A few of my own thoughts;

The number one perceived problem I've heard and experienced
on RP is consistency. There are plenty of fuzzy, yet modern
photos on RP. There are unlevel shots despite the rejections
on shots that are .0002 degrees CCW off. There are more then
a fair share of cloudy day common power shots as there are
back lit and cluttered images. This is where the aggravation
seems to be greatest and results in the "in crowd" comment and
the "they don't like me" comment as well as the "they don't have
a clue" comment.

Secondly - what becomes vogue in 2009 may have been a reject
in 2007 yet it's still the same photo. In this respect, I might
actually endorse a type of leniency for the "in crowd". This sounds
wrong and I was about to name names but suffice it to say, there
are photos that typically would be (and had been) rejected that
made their way onto RP and consequently opened a Pandora's box
to the rest of us looking to grow in areas of backlighting, human interest shots, abstract images and so forth. It is often joked about that RP
would likely have rejected some of O'Winston Link's best work (and
not for "Photoshoping out the flashbulbs").

Last - Is RP really the best photos on the 'Net, or rather, the best
lit images on the 'Net? If it's best of the 'Net, why derailments and
semi lit new engine roster shots? And if such news images are
accepted, why not park engines behind fences?

In my humble opinion, I think the standards should be raised and
a very low tolerance to flaws should be practiced though a certain
amount of discretion would be prudent (old and /or rare images and
captures). Otherwise, fuzzy is fuzzy. Paintings are for gift shops and museums. Derailments are news photos, not part of the best on
the 'Net.

My .04 cents.

/Mitch

[nikos1]

I dont even know what camp im in, i guess depends on if ive got any shots accepted that day or not.
Has RP helped me with photography, definitely has. I learned how to judge lighting and i guess composition too as much as i disagree with RP's standards on this issue.
Ok, so it helped me get my basics down, past that things go downhill, I think i should be at the point where i can upload two images and have them both accepted (Yes all two of them, i have 150+ shots in the DB and i get a grand total of two slots a day) but instead i half the time get hit with absurd oversharpened rejections. Oversharpened rejections do not do anything to help photography, yes there are cases where things are way too sharpened, but would anyone notice if these
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=741156&key=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1150509370
Were accepted instead of this

PhotoID: 300713 Photograph © Nikos Kavoori

Most of the viewers of the site do not look at the pictures with a microscope, oversharpened seems to just be the rejection the screeners use when they just dont feel like accepting your photo. I have a friend (No he's not imaginary ) who sent in the exact same file twice and had it rejected once for oversharpened and once for undersharpened. The sites standards have gotten to absurd levels where it takes several tries to get a roster or wedgie on because the sharpening is not precisely the right level, no wonder people get fed up when it takes three days to get 1 shot on, and im not talking about people just starting out that are taking substandard material either. When out with other railfans, its rare that a good word is said about RP and this again is not with youtube reject kids but with people with a fair amount of shots in the database who clearly know how to take a photo.

[trainmaster_1]

Originally Posted by lock4244

Wedgie = Basehit
Semi-Artsy = Homerun

Question, can baseball exist without either of these?

Artsy-Fartsy = Grand Slam ?

[Chris Z]

Personally, I like the way RP is set up. It's not perfect or consistent, but neither are your photos or mine. This site is run by real human beings which is subject to human error. And at the volume of photos they have to go through I'm surprised they are still sane or at least it appears that way.

I was under the impression that this was a place to show case your best photos, not all of them. If you get a photo rejected, this forum seems like a good place to get a better understanding of what is wrong and how to improve it. I decided to be open minded about how this site is set up and see where it takes me. The result is better photography and hopefully can only get better. There is a lot of talent here.

I've been taking the criticism here constructively or at least trying to and there is a learning curve. I've read here many times that it's their site and so they set the rules. I've learned to accept that fact, although this site is also made up of our photos. That's what makes it work.

I've been listening to you folks here on how to fix things, but I'm also surprised to here about the disappointments some of you are having.

I'm sometimes surprised by what I get accepted here. For example, this photo:

PhotoID: 299160 Photograph © Chris Zygmunt

I thought it was going to get rejected for all sorts of things. I figured the rejections would help me critique it for a better photo next time, but it didn't happen.

Maybe I'm just rambling, but I like this site in spite of its flaws. But I think they are also our flaws. I understand why some people would be upset by this site, but who is twisting their arms to stay here. It seems I was invited to take off my coat and stay a while from my very beginning here, so I did. And if I get a photo rejected here, so what.

Chris

[lock4244]

Originally Posted by trainmaster_1

Artsy-Fartsy = Grand Slam ?

You know, I actually had that exact equation down but deleted it! So on that note, how about Derailment = Bench Clearing Brawl?

[TheRoadForeman]

Another thing about screener consistancy, I highly doubt that all of the screeners are using the exact same monitor with the exact same calibrations. Calibrated equipment does go a long way with viewing (and editing) an image. I'm sure that some of the screener's screen using a Blackberry or, similar device at times. It is possible that some of the "incorrect" rejections are because of this. IMHO......

[Chase55671]

Very interesting topic, too bad I didn't throw my 0.2 in earlier! While just browsing through some of the posts and not reading every single one, I'm going to throw in my input, while hopefully staying somewhat on topic!

When I first developed an interest in railroad photography three years ago this month, I was fully content with getting roster shots of locomotives. At this time, I didn't pay attention to lighting, cropping, composition, weather conditions, and so on, and overall, I was pretty content. I would show off the, what I would consider today, a "crappy" photo to other railfans.

I think some railfans come to RP thinking they can upload the same photos I used to take in 2006 using the same equipment (low MP P&S) and same type of compositions, lighting conditions, etc. etc. I think these railfans tend to be proud of their work and overall, find the photo to be outstanding, or perfect in their eyes. To most people, it would be considered a "good" photo, but these people also have lower standards, atleast when compared to Railpictures.

I think this is why some people get upset when their photos are rejected.

I know personally without RP, I most likely would've still been shooting nasty, poor lit roster shots of trains. RP has helped me considerably in more ways than one! I just wish other members (focusing mainly on the newbies) would work on noticing this as well. RP and it's crew are very helpful. The forums offer valid points, that will help you to hopefully work on your chances of getting an accepted photo.

Of course, this providing you do request for help in a mature, and polite way.

As far as RP bumping up their standards, I don't think this would be the best idea. I think that what RP currently has to offer is very beneficial to the generic railfan. I think RP is split into two type of people that share the same hobby, railfanning & photography.

The average railfan may prefer to look at a good quality photo of a 3/4 wedgie rather than a more creative shot that took some thinking to accomplish. That's how I was when I first began visiting RP.

I think it all depends on the contributor. I would presume to say that the majority of the regulars came to RP without knowing too much about photography. Thankfully, RP has changed that. Most of us started out knowing very little, then we moved onto being able to accomplish the "wedgie", and then moved onto the more creative aspect of the hobby.

If RP were to increase their standards, as far as compositions are concerned, I think this site would lose a considerable amount of railfan viewers, but perhaps an increase in general photography viewers. I suppose it just depends on what this site is looking for. Are you wanting to appeal more to the railfan, or the photographer?

As RP stands right now, I consider this site beneficial to the average railfan and the talented photographer. The average railfan may only submit wedgies, but atleast these wedgies contain good quality, good exposure, color, and so on! This is pleasing to the eye.

The more talented photog may enjoy submitting the more unique angles and compositions in hopes to accomplish an SC, PCA, or POTW award. This is challenging, and enjoyable. RP will always be a challenge regardless if the standards are increased. As I said, the possibilities are endless.

If RP increased their standards, I would imagine there would be less viewership, and definitely far less contributing as the wedgie regulars (that's rather amusing to say!) would most likely get irritated with their photos being rejected for "common angle", or whatever the rejection would be named and most likely quit viewing RP all together. Plus, as previously stated as well, the railfan viewership would most likely decrease.

This is all speculation on my behalf. I could be totally wrong, or I could be partially correct.

Finally, some of the newbies (that eventually turn into very talented photographers) may want to start off by trying to accomplish the wedgie, before moving onto the more creative stuff. The average photographer isn't going to start off by taking crap one day, and then PCA's the next day! It's a slow progress, but if you're patient and willing to learn, it's a fun experience! I think if RP increased their standards it could really discourage newbies from submitting photos.

Needless to say, this is by far a very neat topic, and I hope it continues to receive much feedback!

Chase