Old 10-22-2009, 03:48 AM   #76
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,985
Cool

I agree with Chase.

By allowing someone to accomplish the basic unit of rail photgraphy, a good wedge and then move on, RP is creating the top photographers of tomorrow. Make it harder to get in, they will be turned away, go to some mediocre site and not progress in their photography. We would all lose in the long run.

Although I grew up as the others of my generation on Beebe/Clegg perfect wedges, by the time I was any good, I eschewed them in my own work. So I have only two diesel wedge shots and maybe eight steam in the db.

And no, I'm not going to say anything with the word "wade " in it...
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 05:42 AM   #77
Bryant Kaden
Member
 
Bryant Kaden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Brooten, MN
Posts: 40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
By allowing someone to accomplish the basic unit of rail photgraphy, a good wedge and then move on, RP is creating the top photographers of tomorrow. Make it harder to get in, they will be turned away, go to some mediocre site and not progress in their photography. We would all lose in the long run.
I think that's the best pro-RP argument I've heard or read so far. There certainly is a basic level that must be met to get included on the site. There may be some disgruntled newcomers over what that level is, but when you get 50-100 shots in the db, you should have a good feel of what those are and be comfortable with them (for the most part). Much of the conflict seems to be over other more creative shots that one feels they have put more "effort" into than that basic level, and yet they get rejected. So the question becomes, "Why are they accepting those blah blah blah shots but not my 'out of the box' shots?" I don't know how to answer that, I guess, but I did want to add two pieces of (unsolicited) advice to the "newbies" to railroad photography or this site in general that may end up hinting at where I'd go with it:

First, just think about what you're going to do with your camera before you even pick it up. That's what some kind "elders" taught me when I was first starting out back in my 35mm film days. It basically means this: Pay attention! You're making choices whether you know it or not. The key is to start making those choices consciously and purposefully. So pay attention to how you are going to compose the shot. Look around at the elements available. What are you including and excluding? Look at the entire frame, not just the train. And pay attention to how you're going to expose the shot. Where is the light in relationship to your subject? How much light is there? How can you best use it to create the image you want? And now, in the digital age, I'll add pay attention to how you post process your images. To me, that's all rp is asking you to do: pay attention! And I'm usually not so blunt, but honestly, these are things that anyone serious about improving their photography should be doing anyway. If you're not interested in doing those things, then you're obviously not interested in taking better pictures. That's fine, as long as you understand it and again, consciously make that choice, but don't blame it on a website or the people who run it.

My second piece of advice, again given to me early on, is to look at a lot of other photographers' work and begin getting a feel for what you like and appreciate, then go and try to emulate it. That's another advantage that rp gives all of us, that I think someone alluded to before. You don't have to wait for the next slide show or magazine or spend 50 bucks on a book. You have a wealth of experience and a wide range of photographic styles literally at your fingertips. Don't be discouraged by a lack of success early on. Honestly look at the images you like and admire and then look at your own. How do yours fall short? What steps can you take to improve? That's something I continue to do, and that's what continues to drive me in this hobby. And that's where I end up answering that first question of why so and so's shots are accepted but mine aren't. I think we all have to honestly look at our rejected images and honestly look at comparable images that have been accepted. Is it possible that even the best photographers can still take less-than-desirable images? I think we all know the answer to that...
__________________
My rp.net photos
Bryant Kaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 06:47 AM   #78
Chase55671
RailPictures.Net Crew
 
Chase55671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nitro, WV
Posts: 2,194
Send a message via AIM to Chase55671 Send a message via MSN to Chase55671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Kaden View Post
I think that's the best pro-RP argument I've heard or read so far. There certainly is a basic level that must be met to get included on the site. There may be some disgruntled newcomers over what that level is, but when you get 50-100 shots in the db, you should have a good feel of what those are and be comfortable with them (for the most part).
That is another thing I try to encourage new members to do. Take a look at what gets accepted! This is one thing I didn't do frequently when I first became a part of RP and I regret it. It's the best way to get a feel for what is accepted. Even if you do have the propper requirements (decent quality on a camera), you can still get a feel for what to do when/if you get a new camera.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Kaden View Post
Much of the conflict seems to be over other more creative shots that one feels they have put more "effort" into than that basic level, and yet they get rejected. So the question becomes, "Why are they accepting those blah blah blah shots but not my 'out of the box' shots?" I don't know how to answer that, I guess, but I did want to add two pieces of (unsolicited) advice to the "newbies" to railroad photography or this site in general that may end up hinting at where I'd go with it:
Well, I suppose some people think that if they have a photo that is a bit more creative than the average wedgie, that it will automatically be accepted just on the fact that it's "different". This is not the case, but I'm with you, in that I cannot really provide a valid, and accurate answer. I suppose only the admins/screeners could.

I know a lot of people comment on overcast photos that get accepted. Infact, about a month ago, I had someone from the forums contact me via PM asking why I had a cloudy day shot accepted when his was rejected.

As for cloudy day photos, it all depends on the composition, from what I've gathered, or atleast try to avoid getting the nasty sky in the photo.

Image © Chase55671
PhotoID: 294777
Photograph © Chase55671


Image © Chase55671
PhotoID: 289878
Photograph © Chase55671


Chase
__________________
Chase Gunnoe
Railpictures.Net Crew
Rail-Videos.Net Crew
Click here to view my photos at Railpictures.Net
SLR Night Photography Tutorial | Railpictures.Net Beginners Guide
Chase55671 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 02:39 PM   #79
montyvox
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7
Default montyvox

Good morning-

Here is my first post to the RP forums.

This is a rather interesting subject. I know for me, RP is great when I'm doing recon work on an area that I've never been to before. Just the information alone in the comment section is great for understanding an area.

The wealth of knowledge and information on the site is great. Also from a modeling perspective, it's great as well, because the quality of the images makes for great modeling, so for that, I say thanks!

The one area for criticism that I've seen is that the post process of taking pictures takes away from what was originally taken. I've seen some pictures in the DB that have been pretty well photoshopped over and it really takes away from what was origninally taken. It's one thing to brighten up a photo, but it's another thing to really brighten up colors or other processes that takes away from the original photo that I have an issue with.

That to me is the one drawback of the digital revolution. With K25 you took what you got and that was it. I think to me, that is one reason why some people dont' choose to upload photo's here, and that is too bad.

But all in all, RP has been a very valuable asset to me and hopefully the quality of photo's continues.

Thanks-
Matt
montyvox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 02:57 PM   #80
lock4244
Senior Member
 
lock4244's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The City Below Vaughan
Posts: 1,048
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by montyvox View Post
That to me is the one drawback of the digital revolution. With K25 you took what you got and that was it. I think to me, that is one reason why some people dont' choose to upload photo's here, and that is too bad.
Manipulating photos during processing had been going on long before digital was even a fanciful dream (airbrushing comes to mind). IMO, the only difference now is that it is alot easier to do on a PC and available to the masses.
__________________
Mike Lockwood

Insert witty comment here

Hot girl on girl action here!

More Pics Here
lock4244 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 12:34 AM   #81
sd9
Senior Member
 
sd9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lock4244 View Post
Manipulating photos during processing had been going on long before digital was even a fanciful dream (airbrushing comes to mind).
40% of Ansel Adams work was done in the dark room manipulating He would spend hours in the dark room manipulating his photos until they were perfect.
sd9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 01:06 AM   #82
Dennis A. Livesey
Senior Member
 
Dennis A. Livesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,985
Question

I recall well the rules of a photo contest for the leading railfan magazine during the transition to digital.

They were so steeped in the ways of old that they would only accept digital photos in UNprocessed RAW files for their contest. They even stated they wanted to see how good you were as a photographer, not how good a Photoshoper you were.

I fired them a letter outlining how absurd they were in stipulating this ridiculous requirement.

Sure, slides mean to taking what you get. But then could I then point out all the manipulations by their sacred cow B&W photographers and ask why processing was OK for B&W but not color? They hadn't got the message that in today's digital world, you HAVE to process just like B&W in the days.

They were simply tied in to a methodology that was mandated by limitations of the technology of color.
__________________
Dennis

I Foam Therefore I Am.

My pix on RailPics:

I am on Flickr as well:

"Dennis is such a God, he could do that with a camera obscura and some homemade acetate." Holloran Grade

"To me it looks drawn in in Paintshop. It looks like a puddle of orange on the sky." SFO777
Dennis A. Livesey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 04:10 AM   #83
milwman
I shoot what I like
 
milwman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cedar Fall's, Iowa
Posts: 2,474
Send a message via Yahoo to milwman
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by montyvox View Post
!
That to me is the one drawback of the digital revolution. With K25 you took what you got and that was it.
Matt
I seen a lot of slides that was so far off in color as thats what you had to take. K25 was a great film if you hit the exposer within 1/10 of a stop other wise it looked like crap. BN green looked good on it in good light but one contrail cloud and it got muddy green and just didn't look good.
I am glad slide film is all about finished, Photography never bin better for fans as AWB and RAW saved a lot of trips that in film days would bin a washout. Glad you posted, I am not coming down on you. Just making a statement on film.
__________________
Richard Scott Marsh I go by Scott long story

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22299476@N05/
milwman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2009, 05:07 AM   #84
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis A. Livesey View Post
I recall well the rules of a photo contest for the leading railfan magazine during the transition to digital.

They were so steeped in the ways of old that they would only accept digital photos in UNprocessed RAW files for their contest. They even stated they wanted to see how good you were as a photographer, not how good a Photoshoper you were.

I fired them a letter outlining how absurd they were in stipulating this ridiculous requirement.

Sure, slides mean to taking what you get. But then could I then point out all the manipulations by their sacred cow B&W photographers and ask why processing was OK for B&W but not color? They hadn't got the message that in today's digital world, you HAVE to process just like B&W in the days.

They were simply tied in to a methodology that was mandated by limitations of the technology of color.
I think enough people took them to task on that issue that they ended up relaxing on the "rules" the following year. Kudos to them for being open minded enough to accept the reality of digital photography.
__________________
.
Rhymes with slice, rice and mice, and probably should be spelled like "Tice."

This pretty much sums it up: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thias
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.