Old 04-18-2008, 03:06 AM   #1
martin_lumber
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Default Cloudy Sky??? I didn't think the weather could be changed

I took some pictures of the UP's Wimmer Engineering Special today in Wisconsin, and it was cloudy and a light rain in areas.

I submitted 5 photos. None made it. One, I understand had bad cropping according to railpictures....I don't see it, but I can live with that.

However, what is this cloudy stuff? Can I change the weather?

Any thoughts on these pictures? Why do I see photos on railpictures that are overcast, then?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=208645945
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...8&key=86702466
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...d=512284&key=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...key=1232817501

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Old 04-18-2008, 03:20 AM   #2
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No you can't change the weather and I *think* that during special equipment/moves you are given more leeway but even still, on a cloudy day I try to find a vantage point that would not have the sky in the viewfinder (ie shooting down or where composition would block most and make it less noticable). Also keep in mind that that loco has had _lots_ of photos uploaded in the last week


Ok, on the first one, you have a pole obstructing the rest of the train. From what I can see in the picture, further down the line was just as photogenic.

Second one. A little too 'in your face' for my likings and unfortunately that sky. That plus I find the yellow looks a bit bland

Those items said, the pictures seem really sharp, the composition looks pretty good . Had some of those shots been in sun or with interesting lighting they probably had a chance but the frequency of that loco (edit: at least 30 times in the last 15 days)and the cloudy day probably killed most of it.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:34 AM   #3
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I'm just wondering what railpictures will do on the rest of the photos that will be submitted of this train from today, and tomorrow (weather reports showed rain). You know what I will think if I see any that got past the queue with cloudy skies.

They did not mention the other things about the shots in the pictures.

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Old 04-18-2008, 03:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
I'm just wondering what railpictures will do on the rest of the photos that will be submitted of this train from today, and tomorrow (weather reports showed rain). You know what I will think if I see any that got past the queue with cloudy skies.

They did not mention the other things about the shots in the pictures.

They'll reject them. (If they are even submitted)

And no, they didn't mention. Sometimes when there are a lot of photos in the queue and the screener is busy, there will only be one reason for rejection. If there aren't many photos and the screener has nothing better going on, then he may give 2-3 rejection reasons. However, just by saying "Poor Lighting", that would eliminate the need for anymore rejection reasons, because you can't go back in time and change the lighting.

Also, as Ric mentioned above, there were plenty of good shots in good light uploaded of this train over then last few days.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
You know what I will think if I see any that got past the queue with cloudy skies.


Phil

You can't take this personally. I'll be as gentle as I can, and echo what's been said already.

Common angle, cloudy sky, lots of shots of this loco = rejection.

Use this link (if it works), or just search with the keyword 6936 and look at the photos that have been accepted.

http://www.railpictures.net/showphot...%7C1%7C%7C1%7C

If you're honest with yourself, you'll see that only one or two have anything close to the cloudy sky you had to work with and those shots have no poles in the way. "In your face" shots typically don't fly here. I've got one I really like and it was rejected for that reason.

If you take the rejection as constructive criticism, you'll soon get photos accepted. I've had many times more rejected than accepted and have become a better photographer as a result.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:59 AM   #6
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Brutal honesty from a person who was once in your shoes.

Cloudy day shots can get in, if the rest of the photo outweighs the poor lighting.

Your shots have poles, wires, foreground clutter, bland sky, part of the consist cut off, and poor lighting. Couple that with a parade of that consist being uploaded over the last few days, equals rejection.

Sometimes that's how it goes. We've all been there.

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Old 04-18-2008, 06:56 AM   #7
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Step 1: Better angles and composition, as mentioned above
Step 2: Over-HDR
Step 3: Watch everyone argue over whether or not your horrifically overdone HDR is overdone or not =)
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Old 04-18-2008, 07:13 AM   #8
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NO SOUP FOR YOU!

I'd appeal #1, it's nicely set up and captured.

The rest are not quite up to standards RP is striving for as far as composition and cropping. Now theoretically, #1 does not constitute the "Best" of the Net and if it were a non-special train it would justifiably be rejected due to the poor weather however - it IS a special and it is composed nicely. AND, though it is yet another DD40X image, how many have been captured in Wisconsin? RP strives for the best images but also serves well as a who when and where database assuming the photo is technically sound.

Good luck!

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Old 04-18-2008, 02:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
However, what is this cloudy stuff? Can I change the weather?
No. But you can change the way you shoot. Don't shoot standard wedgies, don't show so much sky. Think scenic, get creative. Or don't try to post them to RP.

Look at the other 130 shots of this engine on RP. This is what you were competing against.

http://www.railpictures.net/showphot...mber=UP%206936

With all due respect, none of your shots add anything to the database. They're typical almost nose-only shots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
Why do I see photos on railpictures that are overcast, then?
Because they make the grade. There's something compelling about them. And, yes, every once in a while, a screener makes a mistake, I'd suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
I'm just wondering what railpictures will do on the rest of the photos that will be submitted of this train from today, and tomorrow (weather reports showed rain).
I imagine the screeners will judge them on their own merits, regardless of who shot them. Some shots *might* get in. Sofar, I can't see any that have. But not all cloudy day shots are bad. I recently had one that was the Top Viewed of the Day. But it told a story. Crews changing in a downpour with the NS F units.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
You know what I will think if I see any that got past the queue with cloudy skies.
Let me guess. You're not in the clique, right? You're not as well known as some of the other guys? Yeah, as I've said before, RP does not actually want to accept any rail pictures. Because not accepting pictures is actually how they stay on-line.

It would actually make more sense for them to start accepting more pictures, at least in the page count, how many pages have ads on them, how manypeople see them, etc. The arguement otherwise is frankly a little stupid.

So why did they reject your pictures? Because they weren't good enough.

Keep trying. It ain't always cloudy and trains do run in good weather.


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Old 04-18-2008, 03:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
No. But you can change the way you shoot. Don't shoot standard wedgies, don't show so much sky. Think scenic, get creative. Or don't try to post them to RP.
Phil;

There are also always exceptions to the rules. The exception below is to not show so much sky. But the angle and the locale overshadows the cloudy sky, which actually does have some intresting textures to it.

Image © southlandwarrior
PhotoID: 230776
Photograph © southlandwarrior


Of course, not all of us has Gaviota Trestle anywhere near us. But just think differently when shooting in overcast days.

Tell a story

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©


Find an interesting subject that would be backlit if the sunwas out.

Image ©
PhotoID:
Photograph ©



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Old 04-19-2008, 01:29 AM   #11
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I think railpictures needs to make a guide on the internet of what photos they will and will not accept.

And yes, I appealed #1 as suggested, and got the response "We have plenty pictures of this remove already". Then why didn't they tell me this in the appeal?? I would like to appeal the appeal and say "Not in Wisconsin!"

With this kind of attitude from railpictures, why would anyone even bother joining their elite section? You don't get anything out of it...

I'm through with railpictures. Take your sunny shots any day...generally, overcast shots can give you better lighting anyways.

Sorry RP, you really don't have a very good photo site. rrpicturearchives.net is more comprehensive, and gives me the shots I want to see.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:37 AM   #12
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Well, Phil, at least you read what I wrote and took it to heart before you took your toys and when home. But as far as a RP guide to hat they want, they actually already have one on line for us to use --

RP Guide As To What They're Looking For


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Old 04-19-2008, 01:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
I'm through with railpictures. Take your sunny shots any day...generally, overcast shots can give you better lighting anyways.
And yet another disappointed customer rides off into the....clouds.

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Old 04-19-2008, 02:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
I think railpictures needs to make a guide on the internet of what photos they will and will not accept.
We already have one; all you have to do is look for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
And yes, I appealed #1 as suggested, and got the response "We have plenty pictures of this remove already". Then why didn't they tell me this in the appeal?? I would like to appeal the appeal and say "Not in Wisconsin!"
And a beautifully scenic portion of Wisconsin, at that!

We screen between 400 and 800 photos per day. It's common knowledge (and even if you've never uploaded here, it's in our submissions guidelines) that cloudy day shots of common power are typically not accepted, especially when we have hundreds of images of the same unit in the database. We don't have time to write a personalized explanation every time we reject a photo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
With this kind of attitude from railpictures, why would anyone even bother joining their elite section? You don't get anything out of it...
What kind of attitude? Weeding out the subpar photos to give our viewers easy access to the better photos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
I'm through with railpictures. Take your sunny shots any day...generally, overcast shots can give you better lighting anyways.
Better lighting in overcast conditions? Only if you're shooting straight into the sun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
Sorry RP, you really don't have a very good photo site. rrpicturearchives.net is more comprehensive, and gives me the shots I want to see.
We have the most visited rail interest site on the internet. Busier than trains.com, trainorders.com, rrpicturearchives.net (by a lot). We're visited by over 50,000 folks daily, so we must be doing something right.

To each their own though. If you're looking for a site where you can upload anything, or where you can find a roster shot of probably every freight car in existence, you're right, this site isn't for you. We make no attempt to hide it -- our goal is to host the best rail photos on the web. If you don't want to be part of that, we wish you the best of luck.
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:36 AM   #15
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Ah Phil, another satisfied customer who would rather complain than try to improve. And as for rrpicturearchives.net, ya gotta respect a site that allows contributors to pick their own best shots, and you end up with a page full of auto-rack cars, which is currently what the first page of contributor picks is right now. What a joke. Enjoy that other site, you'll really improve yourself by comparing yourself to others there. If you can honestly look at your work compared to other shots of this train already accepted and tell us you think it is on the same level, then maybe you do need to go somewhere else. Almost everyone here had to deal with rejections when we first started here, but you talk to others, get advice, practice, and before you know it you'll build a portfolio on here.
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Rule
...page full of auto-rack cars, which is currently what the first page of contributor picks is right now.
Hey, those racks were a sight for sore eyes after seeing this beauty and its friends

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/sho...spx?id=1129612
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:05 AM   #17
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Wow Chris, not much else you can say but wow. And people wonder why RP has screeners. That pretty much answers that question by itself. As has been stated before, that site has it's uses for things you just wanna post to share with friends, but it isn't in the same league as this site.
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Old 04-19-2008, 04:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kilroy
Hey, those racks were a sight for sore eyes after seeing this beauty and its friends

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/sho...spx?id=1129612
Come on Chris! Just a little harsh, that's a fine photo of a bungalow!

Perhaps you need a warning on the submission page about being prepared for rejection and criticism.
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Old 04-19-2008, 05:04 AM   #19
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I understand where this "WTF" attitude comes from, as I was once there. As a railfan with a camera, I fully expected a shot of a train to be accepted to the database. I did not let myself take the "I'm better than this" road and walk away. I took the time and effort to learn more about photography, and I soon found out that most of the rejections I was getting, were founded in the most basic of photographic principles. This site has changed me from a railfan with a camera, to a photographer who shoots trains.

Maybe if there was a tutorial that had to be watched / read when you sign up for an account. Just something basic, with an explanation of the basic stuff (Lighting, composition, leveling, etc) with photographic examples of what, and what not to do as a general guideline. Could that maybe stem the tide of people getting pissy when their backlight blurry side shot of a GE widecab gets rejected?

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Old 04-19-2008, 06:16 AM   #20
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Didn't someone write some sort of "tutorial" for somone a few weeks back, Janusz maybe? I remember it being pretty good.
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Old 04-19-2008, 06:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
I understand where this "WTF" attitude comes from, as I was once there. As a railfan with a camera, I fully expected a shot of a train to be accepted to the database. I did not let myself take the "I'm better than this" road and walk away. I took the time and effort to learn more about photography, and I soon found out that most of the rejections I was getting, were founded in the most basic of photographic principles. This site has changed me from a railfan with a camera, to a photographer who shoots trains.

Maybe if there was a tutorial that had to be watched / read when you sign up for an account. Just something basic, with an explanation of the basic stuff (Lighting, composition, leveling, etc) with photographic examples of what, and what not to do as a general guideline. Could that maybe stem the tide of people getting pissy when their backlight blurry side shot of a GE widecab gets rejected?

Loyd L.
You can't keep shoving things down peoples throats. There comes a point where the person needs to realize their photos suck and that they can change it, if they want to put in the time/work.

The principles of photography are easily grasped and if someone doesn't understand, a video probably won't help either. Some people just cannot take a decent photograph regardless of what they're told.
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Old 04-19-2008, 08:13 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_lumber
I think railpictures needs to make a guide on the internet of what photos they will and will not accept.

And yes, I appealed #1 as suggested, and got the response "We have plenty pictures of this remove already". Then why didn't they tell me this in the appeal?? I would like to appeal the appeal and say "Not in Wisconsin!"

With this kind of attitude from railpictures, why would anyone even bother joining their elite section? You don't get anything out of it...

I'm through with railpictures. Take your sunny shots any day...generally, overcast shots can give you better lighting anyways.

Sorry RP, you really don't have a very good photo site. rrpicturearchives.net is more comprehensive, and gives me the shots I want to see.

Im sorry but your Insolence is more mind numbing than my own in a past thread. . How did you manage to get a response in the appeal? All I've ever gotten is ''your appeal has been processed and has been rejected''. They do make a guide of what is acceptable read the ''Detailed Photo Submission Guidlines'' in the upload section(cloudy day is in there). Had these shots been taken on a sunny day without any distracting shadows(what I still struggle with) or had been shot in black and white, they might have had a chance on here
''rrpicturearchives.net is more comprehensive, and gives me the shots I want'' I am still trying to figure out where you get that its actually not a great site at all I do put my work on it though, and it is certainly not better than RP. Seeing the photos on RP is what made me want to submit all my work here, I guess out of 30 or so picutures ive taken in the past 3 months only one of them has made it on here,so you live and learn....and in your case I guess get luv's. Rejections are frustrating but once you get that first picture accepted theres not a better feeling you can get, and it makes you a better photographer I wont argue that. If your even reading this keep trying don't give up and I guarantee once you get that first shot in you wont care so much about getting rejections.



''I'm through with railpictures. Take your sunny shots any day...generally, overcast shots can give you better lighting anyways.''

Actually...your wrong there as well cloudy day shots are always bland,washed out, shadowed basically they look fake,and from what ive seen even with a good DSLR you will still get a lot of ''noise'' or grain.


''With this kind of attitude from railpictures, why would anyone even bother joining their elite section? You don't get anything out of it...''

and yes you are omgz wrong again....Its not an attitude that RP has, its quality standards you have to take into account that this is the BEST train photo picture takin' type site on teh internetz, and not everything and its brother gets in. ( Sorry for the internet language lol)


''Sorry RP, you really don't have a very good photo site. rrpicturearchives.net is more comprehensive, and gives me the shots I want''

yep wrong again.....do you want to see what kind of pictures rr picture archives accepts?

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPic...spx?id=1038294

cloudy day..point and shoot camera....so beautiful isnt it?


http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPic...spx?id=1072619

ahh another gorgeous oversharpend washed out noisy cloudy tresspasing day amirite?

and yes those are my pictures.....talk about comprehensive

Now if you will exscuse me I must go enjoy my delicious bowl of Cocoa Puffs.



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erm photo rather

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Old 04-19-2008, 08:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
Could that maybe stem the tide of people getting pissy when their backlight blurry side shot of a GE widecab gets rejected?

Loyd L.
Hey I like GE widecabs buddy, and I was not getting pissy about that rejection,I was wondering why they said backlit and not distracting shadows,or high sun is all. I kinda figured it would get rejected for shadows before I even got home to put them on the PC, and only one of them was a side shot in which I dont like to take.


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Old 04-19-2008, 03:05 PM   #24
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There are two new members to RP in this thread, both having received rejections recently that frustrated them. One is starting to understand this site, the other one refuses to. I have a feeling the one that gets it will become a very good railroad photographer before too long. Persistance, patience and a willing to learn will be the key to success for one of them, negativity will be the downfall of the other.

I look forward to seeing more train photos from Virginia, Wayne.
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:28 PM   #25
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I personally get tired of the RR Picture Archives.net bashing. Yes, there's a lot of dregs on that site, but what that site possesses, and what this one often lacks, is character.

Go ahead and laugh, but when all pictures here have to meet 4 or 5 particular individual's "standards", everything starts to look the same no matter how diversely they attempt to screen.

So what if every picture over at "archives" isn't a technical masterpiece? Yes, RP.net has merit, but I often find the offerings at RR Picture Archives.net are more human in my opinion, and everyone is true to themselves and not attempting to be something they're not.

(That statement will certainly get a reaction I'm sure...)

Whether or not you like what you see over there is your problem. If you don't like the looks of a thumbnail, don't friggin' click on it! As long as the pages continue to load quickly and smoothly, I'll gladly browse through pages and pages of material. I'm never disappointed, and I always find things I like that I don't see here!!

You are free to pile on now...
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