RP - some thoughts on the screening process (and suggestions how to change it).

[JRMDC]

Originally Posted by Joe the Photog

I will play screener for the sake of these links if you'd like and tell you what I see.

Joe, do you realize that the person with whom you are supposedly communicating posted 19 days ago, posted a follow-up four hours later, and hasn't been heard from since?

[Freericks]

Originally Posted by JRMDC

Joe, do you realize that the person with whom you are supposedly communicating posted 19 days ago, posted a follow-up four hours later, and hasn't been heard from since?

OMG - Do you think that person died????????





(By the by, if that person did die, I'm really going to rue this snarky post.)

[Joe the Photog]

Originally Posted by JRMDC

Joe, do you realize that the person with whom you are supposedly communicating posted 19 days ago, posted a follow-up four hours later, and hasn't been heard from since?

I'm back in the hospital. I got nothing but time to post to dead threads.

[Rene de Vries]

No worries, I'm still alive...

I wanted to wait awhile and see (or better read) what other people thought.

Joe, I appreciate the feedback (and it confirms the differences between European and American photographers).
It was already mentioned that Americans generally like pictures where the trains are not just part of the scenery, the train almost has to dominant in the picture.
Us Europeans, we tend to shoot differently.

Regarding this picture (where you wrote that composition could be tighter and details are lost)
http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/gal...&id=85447&ix=3

This picture received 32 votes for Picture of the week on the European site (making it one of three pictures that received that distinction).
I literally wouldn’t chance anything about this shot, it is one of my favorites..

Regarding this one,
http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/gal...d=45794&ix=300

I don’t see dead space (or I don’t see it as dead space).
The little cabin is on the right, the train is on the left. I made a picture without the cabin (by moving a few meters to the left) and something just felt missing.
The lack of light on the front was indeed what was mentioned as a rejection reason (which I think is just silly).

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/gal...d=33376&ix=350
I understand that overhead wires are something you rarely see in America but in Europe, they are all over the place. In this case I didn’t want to have too many masts that were cut off at the top (that is something that we Europeans do not like).

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/gal...id=106567&ix=0

It is a pitty that you (probably) don’t understand the German commentary on this shot.
You wrote “Bad composition. Shot is way too loose and train is centered both top to bottom and left to right. Also backlit in RP's world.”
Over here, words such as “brilliant”, “perfect” and “genius” were used..

Therefor I don’t think it makes sense to continue discussing this matter. It is clear that is a “cultural” difference between the two continents.
Over here we like creative pictures such as these:

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/gal...&id=93700&ix=7
also voted as a picture of the week

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/gal...id=67220&ix=16
received praise and just missed out on picture of the week

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/gal...id=61477&ix=10
To be fair, here I can understand that if you’re not familiar with the actual train station, you won’t really recognize this as a railway picture (it shows the celebrations in Berlin Germany when the brand new central train station was officially opened on May 26th 2006).

I do really appreciate this site, don’t get me wrong. There are absolutely stunning pictures to be seen here (and sometimes there are pictures with cut off trains and a girl on a beach with longer legs than Shaquille O’Neal
http://railpictures.net/photo/583909

But this doesn’t seem to bother anyone (seriously people, legs really aren’t that long). And by the way, a train that is “cut off” is a major no-go over here
Sometimes I see pictures with “awkward composition” that are favorite over a dozen times. What can I say… random.

But it doesn’t make sense to be frustrated about this. I’ll accept it as it is and I will only be on RP as a visitor, no longer as a contributor.
The only thing that really bothered me is the lack of communication from the administrators. I’ve send half a dozen request (back in March) but no reply. Fair enough, if there are only two people answering e-mails, you won’t get to answer questions. But maybe then you should get more people on board.
Anyway, I really want to thank everybody for replying and answering - it is always good to get feedback – especially when it teaches you that people think differently in other parts of the world

Kind regards from Germany

René

[Noct Foamer]

Originally Posted by Rene de Vries

1. No worries, I'm still alive...


2. Therefor I don’t think it makes sense to continue discussing this matter. It is clear that is a “cultural” difference between the two continents.

1. It's good to know nothing bad has happened to you--you weren't run over by a train anywya.

2. Don't paint with such a broad brush. You are only going by what RPnet likes. There are many photographers here with different approaches. We just put our photos on Flickr etc. rather than RPnet.


Kent in SD

[JRMDC]

First of all, Joe, I was so wrong! And you were so right to contribute!

Rene, I don't have much of a memory of your shots from three weeks ago, and I don't have time today to dig into the re-posting of them. In general, it is a lot easier to comment on rejections when we can see the reason for the rejection - for example, whether it is a major trans-continental cultural issue or a minor technical adjustment.

The main comment I have is to protest against your America/Europe comparisons. Keep in mind that RP is not America; it is a project of two people, with five screeners, where one of those screeners does the majority of the work, as far as we can tell from the information that trickles out. RP reflects the preferences of its two co-owners. And that's all!

Trains dominant in scene: I think you refer to the dominant wave of wedgies here. I think there are enough "small train presence" shots on RP that one can say that they are welcome, if obscured in volume by the dominant compositional preference.

A few comments on some of the shots. The Berlin station: yes, RP goes for shots with train content, so a shot like this - gorgeous! - may not work for RP. The site likes RR content. It does station shots, basic station portraiture, but where the emphasis is on the structure. Yours is a dramatic event shot where the focus is on anything but trains. RP just doesn't go for that! It's not what RP does.

Workers welding at night: would love to know the reason for rejection. Have seen "sparks" shots here before.

Tree in fog shot: part of the problem, I am guessing, for the US screener is that the type of train featured in the fog is a formless MU blob. Lack of knowledge, perhaps, and lack of "train" impact, I think. One can attribute this to a cultural difference, I suppose, although we have that sort of equipment over here also, albeit less common.

Train on sparse rocky beach: A matter of taste. RP is about taste, the taste of two or even one person.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by Rene de Vries

It was already mentioned that Americans generally like pictures where the trains are not just part of the scenery, the train almost has to dominant in the picture.
Us Europeans, we tend to shoot differently.

It's not just Europeans who shoot that way. Many Americans also like landscape shots that include a train. There are lots of different photography styles out there. The one you are referring to is what I call the "Foamer Wedgie".....meaning it's a shot of a train, and not much else. To me, you take that shot if you have no other shots of that railroad/train, and/or there is nothing else available. Some railroads have great scenery/infrastructure that can be incorporated to make a great scene. Other have trees, weeds and ballast. Faced with the latter, you either need some real creative talent, which not everyone has, or you have to take what you can get. There's a place for the "Foamer Wedgie", but a lot of us would prefer something with more than just a train.

With regard to the RP Screening, I have said this dozens of times. RP isn't a Government site, constrained by all sorts of fairness or political correctness laws. They can accept whatever they like and reject whatever they don't like. My sense is that in some cases, when good photographers start seeing rejections that wouldn't make sense to most of us, there is probably a story behind the story that we cannot see. In other words, we don't see all of the rejected submissions of stuff that's off the wall, or the steady stream of appeals, or perhaps the not-so-nice communications back and forth arguing points. Certainly, there have been a number of well-documented cases in which folks have posted what appear to be compelling images here on the forums, but unbeknownst to us, the point is completely moot because the RP Staff just doesn't like them anymore. We'd all probably have to walk a mile in their shoes to really see both sides of the story.

[John West]

Originally Posted by KevinM

It's not just Europeans who shoot that way. Many Americans also like landscape shots that include a train.

Here is the way I might put Kevin's point. If somebody published a book of train pictures for marketing in the U.S. that included only a random selection of photos on RP, it would not sell very many copies. As best as I can figure, the primary audience for RP, and I think the screeners understand this very well, are what we might call rivet counters, or in the U.K. they might call them train spotters. The details are what count, not the art. That said, there are some excellent images in RP, but the artful images are held to a higher standard, and tend to be very conventionally artful images. For some years many of us have tried to push RP in the direction of more creative, more adventuresome images, but have had only limited success. So I don't see it as a U.S. versus the World kind of difference, because the rail photo community is too highly internationalized. I just had a bunch of my pix published in a German mag, and they seemed happy with them.

[bigbassloyd]

I can vouch for John's thought process. I sell a large amount of railroad themed photos at various festivals, fairs, shows, etc. each year. Only 5-10 percent of those sells are photos that are on here on RP. A couple of the top sellers over the last several years were RP rejects.

Loyd L.

[baggydave]

On the question regarding screeners, What do you make of this rejection?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...84&key=2556633
Regards to all Dave

[John West]

Originally Posted by baggydave

On the question regarding screeners, What do you make of this rejection?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...84&key=2556633
Regards to all Dave

Mitch is the expert on this sort of stuff, but it looks to me like you tried a pan shot but did not sufficiently blur the fore and background to get the effect, probably too fast a shutter speed or too slow a train. It is a neat train, but the result has an awkward look about it. I have to side with the screener on this one. Close but no banana.

[Noct Foamer]

Originally Posted by baggydave

On the question regarding screeners, What do you make of this rejection?

Rejected. RPnet doesn't want LGB G-scale engines.


Kent in SD

[StL-rail]

Originally Posted by Noct Foamer

Rejected. RPnet doesn't want LGB G-scale engines.


Kent in SD

I see what you did there...

[JimThias]

Originally Posted by miningcamper1

Sacrilege! Repent!

They look like a cartoon locomotive...like something I'd see Yogi and Boo Boo riding in. Or, they look like Lionel's poor attempt at making an E or F unit. Just really goofy looking, IMO.

[troy12n]

How does something like this get to be a screeners choice?

PhotoID: 585221 Photograph © Nick Rynes

My caption would be "grab shot, at night"

[Mberry]

Originally Posted by troy12n

How does something like this get to be a screeners choice?



My caption would be "grab shot, at night"

I hadn't noticed that until now.... that is indeed a very odd choice for an SC.

[miningcamper1]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

I can vouch for John's thought process. I sell a large amount of railroad themed photos at various festivals, fairs, shows, etc. each year. Only 5-10 percent of those sells are photos that are on here on RP. A couple of the top sellers over the last several years were RP rejects.

Loyd L.

Seeing what RR photos actually sell would be interesting. How about posting some thumbs of your best sellers right here? (Especially the ones RP rejected!)

[bigbassloyd]

Originally Posted by miningcamper1

Seeing what RR photos actually sell would be interesting. How about posting some thumbs of your best sellers right here? (Especially the ones RP rejected!)

Those came to mind the quickest.

Loyd L.

[John West]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

Those came to mind the quickest.

Loyd L.

So those were all rejected by RP. Interesting, velly velly interesting. Not sure I can say I love them all, but even my least favorite is better than a lot of the images on RP. But I guess it should not be surprising given the inconsistency of the screening process. Did you appeal any or all of these? The first one of the shay is quite striking, I really do like that one.

[ShortlinesUSA]

Originally Posted by troy12n

How does something like this get to be a screeners choice?



My caption would be "grab shot, at night"

I had a strong feeling this one wasn't going to go unnoticed on the forum. That one gave me pause, as well. Accepted, OK. Screener's Choice? That's a bit of a stretch.

For the good qualities, the shot is evenly lit, rather than the ones where you can tell where each flash unit is placed because the flashes look like 10-yard intervals on a football field.

But that cut off crossing light in the right corner is nuts. That is the type of thing that usually earns a Bad Cropping at a minimum.

A head scratcher, for sure...

[bigbassloyd]

Originally Posted by John West

So those were all rejected by RP. Interesting, velly velly interesting. Not sure I can say I love them all, but even my least favorite is better than a lot of the images on RP. But I guess it should not be surprising given the inconsistency of the screening process. Did you appeal any or all of these? The first one of the shay is quite striking, I really do like that one.

I don't appeal anything. If it's rejected for something I may have missed, I'll fix and resubmit once. Aside from that, whatever

It's just one of those things that doesn't bother me.

Loyd L.

[troy12n]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

I don't appeal anything. If it's rejected for something I may have missed, I'll fix and resubmit once. Aside from that, whatever

It's just one of those things that doesn't bother me.

Loyd L.

I'd be curious to know what they rejected the 4501 shot (at Wytheville I think) for

[John West]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

I don't appeal anything. If it's rejected for something I may have missed, I'll fix and resubmit once. Aside from that, whatever It's just one of those things that doesn't bother me.

I was just wondering if more than one screener looked at those pix as part of the rejection process.

[NorthWest]

Those are wonderful, and it really is too bad that they can't be seen here.

I think there is a big distinction between breaking the 'rules' for a reason and breaking them out of ignorance. It seems that anything that doesn't fit is a no-go here.

(Says the bad wedge shooter.)

[John West]

Originally Posted by NorthWest

It seems that anything that doesn't fit is a no-go here.

A lot of shots that don't fit the rules have been accepted here. The problem is the inconsistency. But given the subjective nature of much of this, inconsistency is almost going to be a given. But sometimes the results are...well...surprising.