Shadow on nose rejection

[RobJor]

Originally Posted by Joseph Cermak

The best thing I've found with lightroom is you don't have to give up those PS features up, it's all integrated. You can take advantage of the photo management features and do some editing in lightroom, but a simple right click and "edit in photoshop" will open up PS with the photo. You don't even have to save from there, when you close photoshop it will automatically save it back into lightroom right in the same location as the original.

As you can go back to RAW in PS for editing but of course you no longer have a RAW image but does make some color correction, distortion correction easier than starting over.

Bob

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by KevinM

John,
Why not take advantage of that and pull back from the tracks a bit, getting a little more side angle on the train and making the dark nose somewhat less obvious? Over the years, I've found that head-on photos of steam locomotives tend not to be very popular here. People want to see the overall configuration of the locomotive. They want to see the drivers and the running gear. From this particular angle, there's not that much to see. My advice....go wider. Stay away from the "down-the-throat" angle, if possible, PARTICULARLY if you're shooting backlit. The one possible exception is if you have an enormous exhaust plume to show off. That's not the case here.

John,

Here is a great example of why I gave the above advice. Last night, I posted a couple of photos from the Niles Canyon Railway. Both are really head-on.

PhotoID: 734519 Photograph © Kevin Madore

PhotoID: 734518 Photograph © Kevin Madore

In the first case, I didn't have much latitude to get away from the tracks. In the second case, I shot where the light was. Even as of noontime EDT on 4/30, it is already apparent that neither shot will score as many views as the one I posted yesterday, which did show the side of the train. In addition, were it not for the big red-caboose in the second shot, it would be tanking just like the first. That first image will be lucky to cover 700 views in 24 hrs, despite being from a line that does not get much coverage here.

In retrospect, there was an angle available for that first one, which would have given the viewer a better view of the side of the train. It would have been partially obstructed by the fences, but I have seen that view from another photographer, and I wish I had done that instead. I guess what I am saying is that there are certain types of images which just die an agonizing death here on RP. Head on shots, verticals, black and whites....those are all good ways to kill your views.

[bigbassloyd]

Originally Posted by KevinM

I guess what I am saying is that there are certain types of images which just die an agonizing death here on RP. Head on shots, verticals, black and whites....those are all good ways to kill your views.

Or uploading when a group of campaigners do as well..

Loyd L.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

Or uploading when a group of campaigners do as well..

Loyd L.

Yes, and the number of folks who campaign seems to be ever-increasing. There is one guy from one of the most northern states....I'll leave it at that.....who seems to have even the World's Greatest Railroad Photographer beaten senseless when it comes to campaigning. About a week ago, he posted a shot which was nice, but not spectacular in any way. Within 30 minutes, the shot had 1500 or more views, when the ones on either side of him had 20 or 30. Clearly, he had a little "help." Fortunately, this guy posts only irregularly.

It is possible to succeed without campaigning, however. If you look at the folks with the most views lately, the guy who tops the list is a guy whose views are legit.

[John Russell - NZ]

Originally Posted by KevinM

John,

Here is a great example of why I gave the above advice. Last night, I posted a couple of photos from the Niles Canyon Railway. Both are really head-on...
I guess what I am saying is that there are certain types of images which just die an agonizing death here on RP. Head on shots, verticals, black and whites....those are all good ways to kill your views.

Thanks Kevin. These are great photos from a true master of the art which I had already faved. I usually don't much like head on shots either but chose to upload the offending photo for some variety. You are right, of course, but back when I took this photo I hadn't even considered posting my photos on the internet and hadn't so much as heard about RailPictures.net. Since then I have learnt more about photography that has improved my photography. Yes there is some shadow or darkness on the nose but it isn't back-lit. Had I been shooting RAW and Manual back then there might have been capability to get this shot acceptable for RP. I don't think the majority of folks here could give a rat's butt either way. Posting it in two FB groups, the photo was more popular in likes that most full sun nose steam shots I've ever posted.

[John Russell - NZ]

Here's a photo that's doing well on another site that I wouldn't dare try here. It would likely face rejection on a number of reasons, especially the "cloudy day common motive power" reason. The rule of thirds rigidly applied might see the photo chopped away at. I don't get many photos on the site doing as well which just makes me think that a lot of folks like honest photos showing that trains run no matter the weather. https://trainspo.com/photo/110465/#post_29527

[RobJor]

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ

Here's a photo that's doing well on another site that I wouldn't dare try here. It would likely face rejection on a number of reasons, especially the "cloudy day common motive power" reason. The rule of thirds rigidly applied might see the photo chopped away at. I don't get many photos on the site doing as well which just makes me think that a lot of folks like honest photos showing that trains run no matter the weather. https://trainspo.com/photo/110465/#post_29527

Nice clean view of the train, you can see what happens when the snow melts. For me Arthur's Pass is a neat area from when I saw a videos of trains on the pass in the snow. One video is so cool with the photog shouting out. Scenery, Movies filmed on the south island then as I read more "discovered rugby, the All Blacks and Haley Westenra singing God Defend New Zealand in English and Maori.
Sadly as usual, soon as I become a fan of team they fall a little short.

Bob

Rugby highlights are crazy cool

[Grewup on the CW]

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ

Here's a photo that's doing well on another site that I wouldn't dare try here. It would likely face rejection on a number of reasons, especially the "cloudy day common motive power" reason. The rule of thirds rigidly applied might see the photo chopped away at. I don't get many photos on the site doing as well which just makes me think that a lot of folks like honest photos showing that trains run no matter the weather. https://trainspo.com/photo/110465/#post_29527

Nice clean interesting shot. It has merit to be RP, IMHO.

[John Russell - NZ]

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW

Nice clean interesting shot. It has merit to be RP, IMHO.

Thanks guys. I might give it a try since curiosity is getting the better of me. I got "cloudy day...common power" rejections for unique railroad vehicles. For one of my best photos (in views and faves) I battled rejections over probably three or four submissions over about two years finally getting lucky. It was the first of my photos here to become a jig-saw puzzle: http://archive.train-puzzles.com/puz.../rp619116.html

[RobJor]

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ

Thanks guys. I might give it a try since curiosity is getting the better of me. I got "cloudy day...common power" rejections for unique railroad vehicles. For one of my best photos (in views and faves) I battled rejections over probably three or four submissions over about two years finally getting lucky. It was one of the first to become a jig-saw puzzle:

I just noticed the day was light for submits so I thought to find something, looked at a few night shots, then some low light on the former M & STL around Grinnel and then thought better of it. All I could see was reasons for rejections so I went back out in yard. Once you turn negative..... it takes a while.

Bob

[John Russell - NZ]

Originally Posted by RobJor

I just noticed the day was light for submits so I thought to find something, looked at a few night shots, then some low light on the former M & STL around Grinnel and then thought better of it. All I could see was reasons for rejections so I went back out in yard. Once you turn negative..... it takes a while.

Bob

You hit the nail on the head. Screener preferences rob viewers of shots they would like both in screening them out and discouraging contributors to show shots that are out of the ordinary. I finally took a punt a few weeks back with a back lit shot and got lucky. Now it's the most faved photo of mine here but on another day might have been rejected.

Almost a miracle acceptance: https://www.railpictures.net/photo/735184/

[Grewup on the CW]

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ

You hit the nail on the head. Screener preferences rob viewers of shots they would like both in screening them out and discouraging contributors to show shots that are out of the ordinary. I finally took a punt a few weeks back with a back lit shot and got lucky. Now it's the most faved photo of mine here but on another day might have been rejected.

Almost a miracle acceptance: https://www.railpictures.net/photo/735184/

I get the frustration/reluctance to try again BUT Had Norman Lawson given up at version 39, There would be no WD-40 today........

When I get to the frustrated point, I just stop, think about it and come back again another time for another try, WD-40 style.

Glad you took the chance and tried it, Congrats on acceptance. Again, nice pic and thanks for the informative description.

[RobJor]

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ

You hit the nail on the head. Screener preferences rob viewers of shots they would like both in screening them out and discouraging contributors to show shots that are out of the ordinary. I finally took a punt a few weeks back with a back lit shot and got lucky. Now it's the most faved photo of mine here but on another day might have been rejected.

Almost a miracle acceptance: https://www.railpictures.net/photo/735184/

I think you underestimated this one, something I was making the point of, after a rejection or 2 reluctance takes hold. There was pretty good agreement that the image was acceptable.

Bob

[John Russell - NZ]

https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...63&key=3535398

There is light shadow from grab irons visible on nose. Maybe there's something else wrong with it?

[ATSF666]

Originally Posted by John Russell - NZ

https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...63&key=3535398

There is light shadow from grab irons visible on nose. Maybe there's something else wrong with it?

I don't like the power line that is going right across the middle of the photo. I'm ok with the lighting, but I'm a bit more liberal about not having perfect 3/4 light.

[Grewup on the CW]

Originally Posted by ATSF666

I don't like the power line that is going right across the middle of the photo. I'm ok with the lighting, but I'm a bit more liberal about not having perfect 3/4 light.

The power line would be my guess as well for the true rejection as the nose has good light on it. Needs a slight counterclockwise rotation though ( I am basing that off of the signal pole).

[John Russell - NZ]

Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW

The power line would be my guess as well for the true rejection as the nose has good light on it. Needs a slight counterclockwise rotation though ( I am basing that off of the signal pole).

Thanks guys. The issue is then incorrect rejection reason being used. It could have been rejected for poor composition with a remark. There are photos in the database with even more power lines going across behind a train. Behind the train fine with me but obviously not fine with all folks.

I wonder if power lines could be a factor in this rejection (twice) for being back-lit... https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...24&key=7761741

This one also not back-lit and rejected for being so. I recall it was rejected likewise when submitted in 2016. I haven't been able to get a single photo of this train accepted so on this occasion a very rare appeal is in order...
https://www.railpictures.net/viewrej...04&key=1669372

[bigbassloyd]

The recurring theme I'm noticing is the harsher mid-day lighting that your photos have. The contrast is flat, and there's that blueish cast that normally indicates the sun angle is rather high.

Loyd L.

[John Russell - NZ]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

The recurring theme I'm noticing is the harsher mid-day lighting that your photos have. The contrast is flat, and there's that blueish cast that normally indicates the sun angle is rather high.

Loyd L.

You might be right but, again, high sun was not the reason either photo was rejected for. The Silver Fern photo was at 12:05 but just a few days after winter finished. Too bad about the late running that day; there won't be another time as I've heard that they are withdrawn and being scrapped. The other photo was around 15:00 at the start of summer - borderline but acceptable to many. The cast should be correctable. To be honest never even noticed it.

[bigbassloyd]

I understand they weren't rejected for that specific reason, but if I were to put myself into a screeners' shoes.. a combination of little things could produce a rejection even if the rejection itself is not perfectly correct.

*edited since my judgement in lighting is harsher than others

Loyd L.

[John Russell - NZ]

Thanks Loyd. My preference is for the summer shot simply because of the trees being a deep green and the bogies of locomotive aren't visible anyway. My shot is most definitely NOT high sun. The bogies are very well lit and this is a narrow gauge train. If the train had passed just 30 minutes earlier it would be perfect. I await the appeal result. Meantime, I will post on Facebook group and see how many of the 3,500 members think the photo is back-lit or in anyway unworthy.

[bigbassloyd]

It looks like it. That will be your problem here. If you are content with it, then that is absolutely fine. But you will not have the success here with those shots. I'm sorry.

You probably will not find any criticism on facebook because the users are conditioned to give praise or stay silent lol.

Loyd L.

[John Russell - NZ]

Appeal successful... https://www.railpictures.net/photo/735830/ Now we can see if Loyd is right about the photo not being successful here. Quite likely he is but I wanted some variety in my offerings here. If site average is the measure not many of my photos are successful here anyway. I bask in the criticism one gets all the time on facebook groups from those who don't like what you have to say. LOL.

[JimThias]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

I have pulled these two files out and processed them quickly, but in my normal workflow and style. Both are 'sunlit' but which would you prefer? Did you find yourself judging the harsh sun shot more? Did it instantly jump out as 'more meh'?

Loyd L.

It jumped out at me not because of the harsh light, as you say (I think it looks fine), but rather because of the tight crop. The crop for the early spring shot is spot on though.

[bigbassloyd]

Originally Posted by JimThias

It jumped out at me not because of the harsh light, as you say (I think it looks fine), but rather because of the tight crop. The crop for the early spring shot is spot on though.

The crop is just a bad composition from inexperience (it's a very old file for me). The lighting overall is subpar at best though. Aside from this instance, it will never be worthy of being shown again for any reason.

Loyd L.