Old 10-23-2007, 12:42 AM   #1
transit383
Senior Member
 
transit383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 150
Default High Sun in October?

The following was taken at 10AM yesterday. I think its more of the train going into direct sunlight rather than high sun...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=436915416

Opinions?
__________________
My Photos
transit383 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2007, 12:44 AM   #2
trainboysd40
Senior Member
 
trainboysd40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta on the CP Laggan Subdivision
Posts: 2,048
Send a message via MSN to trainboysd40
Default

Yup, you hit the nail on the head - The entire side of the train is in shadow save for indentations like the doors. Sorry.
__________________
got a D5 IIi and now he doesnt afread fo 12800 iSO
Youtube (Model Railway, Vlogs, Tutorials, and prototype)
My Website
Obligatory link to shots on RP, HERE
trainboysd40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2007, 12:47 AM   #3
ottergoose
American Gunzel
 
ottergoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 1,626
Send a message via AIM to ottergoose Send a message via Yahoo to ottergoose
Default

Yep - no light on the side of the train. That doesn't have anything to do with the sun being high though... pesky generic rejections
__________________
Nick Benson | Pictures | Website | Flickr | Profile | JetPhotos | Twitter
ottergoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2007, 01:02 AM   #4
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Unrelated to the reason given, but I find that, since the bridge on the right is well obscured with foliage, the right side doesn't have much to offer to balance the left side, and the nose is centered. So the composition doesn't do anything for me.
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2007, 01:31 AM   #5
Freericks
Met Fan
 
Freericks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,042
Default

Nice shot... but I wouldn't have tried with it. Look at the trucks on the MUs. When there's zero light on them, I don't try. I know that they are looking for that.
Freericks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2007, 02:21 AM   #6
Chicago Railfan
Senior Member
 
Chicago Railfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chi-Town subarbs
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to Chicago Railfan Send a message via Yahoo to Chicago Railfan
Default

No light on the side would classify for backlit, but for some reason, this picture does kind of have that look. TO ME anyway. Also, the cropping is poor. Cool crossing though!
Chicago Railfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 12:52 AM   #7
sd9
Senior Member
 
sd9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by transit383
The following was taken at 10AM yesterday. I think its more of the train going into direct sunlight rather than high sun...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=436915416

Opinions?
I got one those too...They need to change the rejection to "just high sun"..
and loose the "a common problem in the summer months" it's October
sd9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 02:22 PM   #8
Joe the Photog
Senior Member
 
Joe the Photog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 7,905
Default

The screeners don't know when the shot was taken. And arguing about the reason for the reject is kinda weird when it's obvioius the side is in shadow. No one is sayng to appeal the shot that I see.


Joe
__________________
Joe the Photog Dot Com
Joe the Photog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 03:35 PM   #9
DelmonteX
Senior Member
 
DelmonteX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog
...arguing about the reason for the reject is kinda weird when it's obvioius the side is in shadow. No one is sayng to appeal the shot that I see.


Joe

I think the reasons for so much acrimony with the rejects, is that people are trying to learn. It's almost like your math teacher telling you that, no 2+2 isn't 5 and the reason is because you're wearing a blue shirt on a Tuesday.

I've learned a lot posting here and my work has improved, but it would have been a lot easier if I hadn't wasted time and energy trying to figure out what was wrong with my photo and how to do it better, when the reason for the rejection was clearly not appropriate.

Another reason, is that it appears new contributors to the site don't really understand the purpose and don't take the guidelines seriously. Of course they also, like most of us, are viewing their work from a very biased position.

Just my 2 bytes worth.
DelmonteX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 03:55 PM   #10
bigbassloyd
Senior Member
 
bigbassloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hilldale, West Virginia
Posts: 3,842
Default

Just start with these three simple rules. After a few rejections, I took this advice to heart..

1. If you are standing track side facing the train that's approaching, and you can smack your shadow in the head with your right hand without going across your body, you're standing in the right place.

2. If your shadow is shorter than you, the sun may be too high to properly light the scene.

3. I do not advocate violence against shadows.

Once you've learned how to follow those rules, then you can start learning ways to break them.

have fun, and good luck!

Loyd L.
__________________
Those who seek glory, must also seek infamy.

My personal photography site
bigbassloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 07:24 PM   #11
Crusader
Senior Member
 
Crusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 242
Default

Had a very similar shot rejected awhile back...it was taken at end of day, but the locos (2 Amtrak MP15's hauling a work train) were headed straight into the sun, so the trucks were shaded. And that's a bg "don't" around here.

Here it is...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Amtk_577_Paoli.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	198.9 KB
ID:	2245  
__________________
View my photos on RP.net
Crusader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 07:35 PM   #12
Freericks
Met Fan
 
Freericks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,042
Default

I agree on the trucks and won't submit pictures without the trucks lit anymore, but there are, as shown here, incidents when it's a low sun and the trucks are still not lit.

This was rejected for high sun. But a picture that I took about five minutes later, a block away, was accepted. I figured the first one was rejected for light on the trucks, but the second one had the same issue (maybe the clock in the picture changed things, or maybe the fact that the trucks on the second train were so far under the body of the unit that it was clear that it wasn't high sun, I'm not sure).

http://freericks.rrpicturearchives.n...aspx?id=820032

(As an aside, yes there are zig-zags that mean I overcompressed and have to redo the scan, but that's not what it was rejected for.)

Here's the shot from five minutes later that was accepted.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...193397&nseq=83
Freericks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 07:50 PM   #13
JRMDC
Senior Member
 
JRMDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,202
Default

Were the two shots submitted at the same time? No offense, but I would have rejected both. Although I do think that older shots - these are from 1982 - get more latitude at RP. Also, the accepted shot has a prominent long shadow that suggests the sun may not be that high.

Also, on the rejected picture, due to the dark paint on the lower part of the passenger cars, the lower sides look really bad and dark, like horrible high sun!
__________________
My RP pix are here.
My Flickr pix are here.

My commentaries on rail pictures are in my blog.

RP Photo Albums:
Cabooses
Engine Details
Farm and Train
Plumes!
Railroad Details
Signal Details
Switchstand Shots
JRMDC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 08:16 PM   #14
Freericks
Met Fan
 
Freericks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,042
Default

Janusz,

They were submitted a day or so apart, as I recall. The time of day of course was late afternoon (you'll note the clock). I think that the angle of the sun was just not going to come at the trucks. (It was August.)

While I am deeply offended and hurt and dispirited, I will also admit that I probably wouldn't have submitted either of them now that I know RP.net better than I did at the time. I would have looked at the trucks and moved on.

Oddly enough, the rejected shot was of an odd movement (the WWII era cars show this), while the accepted shot was of an every day local run.

Charles

Last edited by Freericks; 10-25-2007 at 08:21 PM.
Freericks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007, 10:17 PM   #15
Ween
Senior Member
 
Ween's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,861
Default

Quote:
so the trucks were shaded. And that's a bg "don't" around here.
But only when it comes to High Sun. If it's direct nose light you're talking about, it's more of a Bad Angle issue because the side of the train is going to be shaded. If you have the sun running directly down the tracks, it's best to close the angle between yourself and the subject (i.e. more of a nose-on shot)...
__________________
Ween is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2007, 12:28 AM   #16
Crusader
Senior Member
 
Crusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
But only when it comes to High Sun. If it's direct nose light you're talking about, it's more of a Bad Angle issue because the side of the train is going to be shaded. If you have the sun running directly down the tracks, it's best to close the angle between yourself and the subject (i.e. more of a nose-on shot)...
Now you've got me thinking I should resubmit my shot...because looking at it, I am on the sunny side of the train. Hmm.
__________________
View my photos on RP.net
Crusader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2007, 01:32 AM   #17
Carl Becker
Senior Member
 
Carl Becker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,218
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freericks
I agree on the trucks and won't submit pictures without the trucks lit anymore, but there are, as shown here, incidents when it's a low sun and the trucks are still not lit.
Very good point. Pickyness concerning the darkness of trucks has increased, and I have seen instances where the dark trucks are the only cause for rejection, even when there are no shadows at all indicating high sun on the front of the locomotive. But, regardless of high sun, dark trucks and sides of trains are many times distracting, sometimes even when the shot is a telemashed face-on "wedge". I really find shots depressing that are taken face-on because the side of the train and/or trucks is all dark plus the lighting is barely enough and the locomotives are all dirty and unattractive. Yet, this type of shot seems to get by a bit more than even a wider angle shot that has shadows only on the very tops of the trucks, something that sometimes is a bit dissapointing.

My latest high sun reject was this one, which was accepted within minutes on appeal:

Image © Carl Becker
PhotoID: 203895
Photograph © Carl Becker


I could see that there were some shadows on the trucks, but the shadow of the brakeman on the right is a dead giveaway that it's a morning shot without high sunlighting. The sun wasn't at the greatest angle (pretty face-on) which was why I took the shot with the locomotive on the connector track, and ended up working out fine.

The other big thing I see that commonly causes high sun rejects is a large shadow on the nose. Yet, this sometimes happens during cases where the sun is at a ~90 degree angle to the nose and isn't actually high. A good case for wide-angle to show the trucks are perfectly lit.

An example of mine I could find, also accepted on appeal for high sun:

Image © Carl Becker
PhotoID: 193119
Photograph © Carl Becker


Overall, once I really got use to what was high sun and what wasn't, I haven't had too many problems getting non-high sun shots accepted even when they showed some of these "symptoms". If anything, appealing typically works when you have something to point out that proves there's no high sun there.

FWIW, probably the most high-sun shots I have on here, accepted because of the rarity of the movement, and, ironically, two of my most popular shots:

Image © Carl Becker
PhotoID: 195940
Photograph © Carl Becker

Image © Carl Becker
PhotoID: 195943
Photograph © Carl Becker


~Carl Becker
Carl Becker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2007, 12:03 PM   #18
JimThias
Senior Member
 
JimThias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 9,838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbassloyd
Just start with these three simple rules. After a few rejections, I took this advice to heart..

1. If you are standing track side facing the train that's approaching, and you can smack your shadow in the head with your right hand without going across your body, you're standing in the right place.

2. If your shadow is shorter than you, the sun may be too high to properly light the scene.

3. I do not advocate violence against shadows.
Good one, Loyd.
JimThias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2007, 04:46 AM   #19
MichaelJ
The Photo Journalist
 
MichaelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 630
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ween
But only when it comes to High Sun. If it's direct nose light you're talking about, it's more of a Bad Angle issue because the side of the train is going to be shaded. If you have the sun running directly down the tracks, it's best to close the angle between yourself and the subject (i.e. more of a nose-on shot)...
You're right on the money there! Neutral light = front on with lots of zoom.
__________________
My portfolio at RailPictures.Net!
My portfolio at Flickr!

The views expressed in this reply are personal and do not represent the views or policy of my employer.
MichaelJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.