Old 12-18-2012, 02:10 PM   #1
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Default Oh,For Fox Sake !!

Sorry about the title,couldn't resist using it.Childish maybe,but it is Christmas.
I had the following image rejected for the "bad cropping" reason.The question is,any point in continuing ? Is it worth trying a different crop ?
I feel that part of the problem with it may be that the fox is pretty small as part of the overall image.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...30&key=6352622

Grateful for any suggestions.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:33 PM   #2
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Sure it's worth another attempt.
I'd say crop the bottom to just below the fox (leave him some room of course) but thats all dead space down there. Then crop off the right side to the signal box (removing all that dead space) and then maybe trim the top to get the size/ratio correct and give that a go. Bring us closer to what's going on.

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Old 12-18-2012, 02:58 PM   #3
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Tighter crop needed here. The fox is tiny and you've gone so wide that he's gotten a bit lost in space. If the goal is to show the fox and the railcar, I would use the railcar, the fox and the trackside elements and try to achieve some balance with those. Forget about everything else. This isn't a scenic, it's an event....or a near event. Experiment with a 4:5 crop or even portrait format, although I think there is too much separation between the two subjects for the latter to work.

Keep in mind the rule of thirds and BALANCE....you will need balance for this to work.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:53 PM   #4
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Yes, it is worth working on! Very different photo from the usual fare we see. Like all the above have stated, tighter crop needed. Hopefully you've got the pixels available to do it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:58 AM   #5
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[quote=DaveJ;162265]Sorry about the title,couldn't resist using it.Childish maybe,but it is Christmas.

I think the title to your post should have been "WTF!" with the fox is this case standing for FOX! Go tighter, it's a neat shot! If it still doesn't make it contact Dennis for inclusion in his 7 Day Personal site for rejected and misfit images.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveJ View Post
Sorry about the title,couldn't resist using it.Childish maybe,but it is Christmas..

I think the title to your post should have been "WTF!" with the F in this case standing for FOX! Go tighter, it's a neat shot! If it still doesn't make it contact Dennis for inclusion in his 7 Day Personal site for rejected and misfit images.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Tighter crop needed here. The fox is tiny and you've gone so wide that he's gotten a bit lost in space. If the goal is to show the fox and the railcar, I would use the railcar, the fox and the trackside elements and try to achieve some balance with those. Forget about everything else. This isn't a scenic, it's an event....or a near event. Experiment with a 4:5 crop or even portrait format, although I think there is too much separation between the two subjects for the latter to work.

Keep in mind the rule of thirds and BALANCE....you will need balance for this to work.
Yeah, what that guy said!
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:36 AM   #8
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First attempt at a tighter crop -

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...49&key=4969203

maybe tighter still ?
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:41 PM   #9
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Dave,

I was thinking something more like the attached. I tried going vertical with it and the result was not terrible, but the balance I was searching for wasn't quite as good as the landscape format. This is not perfect, but this was clearly not a planned-out shot. It was a grab....and a pretty good one.

Anyway, when I said tighter, I meant TIGHTER!!
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:17 PM   #10
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Anyway, when I said tighter, I meant TIGHTER!!
I wonder how many times over the years those words have been uttered at the Mustang Ranch in Nevada.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:47 AM   #11
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Apparently wild dogs like railroad tracks.





I didn't get the best weather and/ or trains with them though.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:36 PM   #12
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Latest rejection -

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...66&key=6199799

I'm quite happy to give up now.Unless there's something drastically wrong with the shot,I feel this has got to the nitpicking situation.O.K. so they don't like the crop - I can live with that.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveJ View Post
Latest rejection -

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...66&key=6199799

I'm quite happy to give up now.Unless there's something drastically wrong with the shot,I feel this has got to the nitpicking situation.O.K. so they don't like the crop - I can live with that.
Now that is just silly.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:38 PM   #14
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I think the problem is the most recent crop is too square. The screeners tend not to like images that are almost square. I think I'd take one more shot with something like this.

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Old 12-20-2012, 09:04 PM   #15
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I think the problem is the most recent crop is too square. The screeners tend not to like images that are almost square.
His latest crop is less-square than 5:4, and there are a ton of shots in the database with the 5:4 ratio.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:23 PM   #16
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Goodness, you shot that picture at 1000 ISO? Even with a pretty big crop it still looks good.

PS, I liked your last crop, but then my vote doesn't count for anything.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:30 PM   #17
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His latest crop is less-square than 5:4, and there are a ton of shots in the database with the 5:4 ratio.
That may be, but "Optimal size for uploaded images is 1024-1200 pixels wide at between a 3:2 and 16:10 aspect ratio."

I'm not saying the screeners are right, or that it's fair. I'm just saying.

Jon
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
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That may be, but "Optimal size for uploaded images is 1024-1200 pixels wide at between a 3:2 and 16:10 aspect ratio."

I'm not saying the screeners are right, or that it's fair. I'm just saying.
I'm not sure what you are saying.

A common size in the database is 1024 x 819 (5:4), to which I have many.

His current crop is 1024 x 762, which is 57 pixels less-square than 1024 x 819, which they accept on a regular basis. So being "too square" or "almost square" can't be the problem.

By the way, 1024 x 768 (4:3) is also a very popular crop size on RP.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:36 PM   #19
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The concept of "too square" is not just an objective constraint but also a subjective judgment that the composition does not fit the shape of the frame.

I too had the reaction that the shot looked square-ish. Cropping some from the top, like what Jon suggested, looks better to me.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:41 PM   #20
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I had not previously noticed the "16:10" before, and nice that they are formally acknowledging shots "wider" than 3:2. Of course, RP accepts shots square-r than 3:2 routinely.

But as I said, I think the rejection is based on the esthetics of square-ish vs less so in this particular shot, not based on a general requirement.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:02 AM   #21
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I'm not sure what you are saying.

A common size in the database is 1024 x 819 (5:4), to which I have many.
I do as well, Jim....yet I had one with those exact dimensions rejected last week for size. Rather than appeal, I just recropped it 5:7 and they took it that way.

Since then, I have submitted several more 4:5 crops that were 1024x819 with no problems at all. I don't know if RP has buggy software, or if one of the screeners has a thing for anything but a 2:3 crop.

Screener inconsistency is completely understandable on a wide variety of photo issues, but crop size and pixel dimensions shouldn't be subjective at all. Either a size is acceptable or it is not. It should not vary from day to day...and it apparently does now.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:18 AM   #22
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Screener inconsistency is completely understandable on a wide variety of photo issues, but crop size and pixel dimensions shouldn't be subjective at all. Either a size is acceptable or it is not. It should not vary from day to day...and it apparently does now.
"apparently"? to whom??? Well, I guess to you and Jim, but not to me, for the reasons given in a previous post.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:57 AM   #23
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J,

The rejection that David received on his "Fox" shot was for bad cropping, meaning the screener did not find his crop aesthetically pleasing. The discussion that I was having with Jim was not about the aesthetics of a given cropping ratio. It was about what RP publicly says it will accept for pixel dimensions and the fact that sometimes....right out of the blue....they will reject a picture for size, when they regularly accept pictures of that size all the time. Cropping and size are two different issues. The former is aesthetic. The latter is technical. Technical aspects of RP should be cast in stone, not dependent upon what the screener had for dinner.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:27 AM   #24
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J,

The rejection that David received on his "Fox" shot was for bad cropping, meaning the screener did not find his crop aesthetically pleasing. The discussion that I was having with Jim was not about the aesthetics of a given cropping ratio. It was about what RP publicly says it will accept for pixel dimensions and the fact that sometimes....right out of the blue....they will reject a picture for size, when they regularly accept pictures of that size all the time. Cropping and size are two different issues. The former is aesthetic. The latter is technical. Technical aspects of RP should be cast in stone, not dependent upon what the screener had for dinner.
Sure, but frankly, you and Jim have no clue whether the rejection here is for esthetics or technical. That is what I am saying. And I see plenty of reason here for an esthetic cropping reject. So I am puzzled as to why you would jump on the technical possibility. I suppose we just see it differently, but you guys seem so sure it is technical, I find that confidence puzzling. It is at best a possibility.

Or perhaps you just branched off into a discussion wholly disconnected from the image. Jim, at least, is connecting to the image in his discussion, in my read, although I can see where your contribution is detached.

No biggie, as always.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:30 PM   #25
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And I see plenty of reason here for an esthetic cropping reject.
Time to add a new rejection reason to the list to confuse the masses. (yes, I understand what you mean.)

Quote:
Jim, at least, is connecting to the image in his discussion, in my read, although I can see where your contribution is detached.
That's because I think his last crop works really well with the scene and subject.
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