Old 06-15-2017, 12:10 AM   #26
troy12n
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Nope... you have to have a camera /sensor that is capbable of capturing the detail that you are hoping to recover. Aka; a camera with a high dynamic range which Sony offers and Nikon uses. Nikon and Sony are up around 14.5 stops where as ALL Canon's prior to the 80D and 5D Mark IV are at a rather pathetic 11.6. The latest crop of Canon cameras are MUCH better at 13.7 but still no match compared to Nikon's offerings of the last 2 to 4 years.


As for the Histogram - John West nailed it.

Plain and simple - if your histogram shows clipped peaks - that is in fact where you have over and /or underexposed part of an image to such an extent there is no longer ANY detail to be retrieved.

/Mitch
That's one of the things I am learning about my new camera body (6d), I can get away with underexposing and have recoverable details, where as my previous bodies, if I did this, it would be NOISE CENTRAL. It's a completely different mindset that I wish I knew before my last outing...
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:34 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Mgoldman View Post
Nope... you have to have a camera /sensor that is capbable of capturing the detail that you are hoping to recover. Aka; a camera with a high dynamic range which Sony offers and Nikon uses. Nikon and Sony are up around 14.5 stops where as ALL Canon's prior to the 80D and 5D Mark IV are at a rather pathetic 11.6. The latest crop of Canon cameras are MUCH better at 13.7 but still no match compared to Nikon's offerings of the last 2 to 4 years.

/Mitch
I guess I'm just that f-ing awesome then. I use a terrible body, and a crappy mega zoom lens (I remember you ragging on it too).



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Old 06-15-2017, 12:39 AM   #28
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That's one of the things I am learning about my new camera body (6d), I can get away with underexposing and have recoverable details, where as my previous bodies, if I did this, it would be NOISE CENTRAL. It's a completely different mindset that I wish I knew before my last outing...
That sounds backwards - I would think you would want to expose as bright as possible using the histogram to verify you have not clipped anything. Noise comes from trying to boost the details in the shadows, consequently, you would want to expose as bright as possible to avoid the need to extract details in the shadows as much as possible.

As for the 6D - congrats. That camera actually slightly, specs out better than the 5D Mark III with a dynamic range of 12.1 EV vs 11.7 EV. The 2 year old Nikon D750 however is 14.5. Rumors suggest even better dynamic range is coming on the next round of Nikons due out soon. I'm curious to see what the 6D Mark II will offer - that is expected to be announced by the end of the month.... perhaps.

/Mitch
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Old 06-15-2017, 04:01 PM   #29
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Nope... you have to have a camera /sensor that is capbable of capturing the detail that you are hoping to recover. Aka; a camera with a high dynamic range which Sony offers and Nikon uses. Nikon and Sony are up around 14.5 stops where as ALL Canon's prior to the 80D and 5D Mark IV are at a rather pathetic 11.6. The latest crop of Canon cameras are MUCH better at 13.7 but still no match compared to Nikon's offerings of the last 2 to 4 years.


/Mitch
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about, but it sounds good. That being said, I've always handled any overexposure issues pretty well with my Canon cameras. In fact, one in particular that was badly overexposed when I took it (I got sun fucked) ended up being my most viewed ever. And that was with a Rebel XT.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:25 PM   #30
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Noise is introduced when you boost the exposure in post processing. You do not get (considerable) noise when you reduce the exposure. Consequently, you would want to expose as bright as possible stopping short of clipping the scene.

Loyd - not sure which zoom lens you are talking about. I do not recall "ragging" on a zoom lens though it would be safe to assume you will get better results with a prime... or a zoom with a smaller range then say, a lens that goes from 50 - 250 mm, or 18 - 300 mm. If you don't, it's only because you ONLY shoot at the sweet spot.

As for Canon - pre 80D /5D Mark IV - you will have a visible difference in those 3 full stops of dynamic range vs Nikon/ Sonly. It would be the equivalent of shooting a single image with the results of an HDR shot 3 times one stop apart. Granted this difference fades as the ISO goes north.

Very little of this difference would be observable with pictures posted on line at RP /FB resolution and sizes. And the same applies for images shot with great light or low contrast. Examples of the short comings of shooting with a camera with 3 stops less dynamic range can be seen in the following images - this despite one being featured as a cover for TRAINS Magazine:

Image © Mitch Goldman
PhotoID: 611483
Photograph © Mitch Goldman


Image © Mitch Goldman
PhotoID: 571806
Photograph © Mitch Goldman


Image © Mitch Goldman
PhotoID: 384462
Photograph © Mitch Goldman


Image © Mitch Goldman
PhotoID: 574715
Photograph © Mitch Goldman


Image © Mitch Goldman
PhotoID: 428420
Photograph © Mitch Goldman


The detail in the shadows in all of the images above could be much better - would've have been much better, had I used a Nikon /Sony camera. Ie; The dynamic range of those pictures was too great - the difference between the brightest part of the image, and the darkest part, that my Canon was less capable of recording and preserving the detail that would otherwise been captured. Of course... I could simply have edited for a different look - silhouettes and such, but it's nice to have the option.

Ugh - the photos you will never see... the ones I will re-shoot in the near future.

That being said - I do have a LOT of Canon gear for sale!

/Mitch

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Old 06-15-2017, 11:07 PM   #31
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The technique Mitch describes is usually referred to as ETTR - Expose To The Right - where "to the right" refers to the histogram.

https://photographylife.com/exposing...ght-explained/
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:31 AM   #32
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The technique Mitch describes is usually referred to as ETTR - Expose To The Right - where "to the right" refers to the histogram.
Exactly.

Loyd and Troy probably ETTL


https://petapixel.com/2017/04/01/exp...quality-night/

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Old 06-16-2017, 01:38 AM   #33
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I expose for the dollar sign and Canon has treated me good in that regard. There's plenty of ways to work around the 'crippling' effect of lacking dynamic range in the fields I really care about shooting. Train photos are a silly little hobby that keeps me connected to a good group of friends, and not a whole lot else.

Guess I could give that 600mm f4 a try at some point. I'm sure there would be 10k worth of difference

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