Old 06-12-2017, 12:19 PM   #1
Joseph Cermak
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Default Loose Composition Suggestions

Had this rejected for loose composition. I have the nose of the unit on a thirds rule point, but I'm really not sure how much tighter of a crop I could go on this without either having the end of the train cut off on the right, or cropping the left so much you lose the whole point of the photo showing the other train being passed. Thoughts?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...18&key=2757161
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:44 PM   #2
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Wasn't this shot already discussed a year ago?
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:02 PM   #3
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I brought it up with a whole bunch of rejections back when I was first able to post on the forum, but never got any advice specific to this image. I haven't been able to get out much so have been revisiting some older images I never submitted or wanted to try again with.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:06 PM   #4
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My biggest issue is everything but a nose isn't lit, and shadowed intermodal isn't holding up the left side of the frame well enough for the composition to work.

Loyd L.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:37 PM   #5
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Rp probably wants a wedgie here....
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:10 PM   #6
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No...
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:11 PM   #7
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Rp probably wants a wedgie here....
No, they probably want light on the other side of the tracks
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:17 PM   #8
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No, they probably want light on the other side of the tracks
Then the rejection wouldn't be for loose composition, it would be for lighting.

The nose is well lit and I personally think that it is a head on enough angle that the light being on the wrong side isn't a major issue.
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:22 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Joseph Cermak View Post
Then the rejection wouldn't be for loose composition, it would be for lighting.

The nose is well lit and I personally think that it is a head on enough angle that the light being on the wrong side isn't a major issue.
But your premise on the composition is to include the intermodal train on the left, which is not lit at all and therefore isn't going to carry the composition in a way proper to suit the RP gods.

They are telling you to crop down onto the nose lit train. Then they can reject it for poor lighting lol.

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Old 06-12-2017, 03:33 PM   #10
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They are telling you to crop down onto the nose lit train. Then they can reject it for poor lighting lol.
Yeah that's what I'd like to avoid doing...
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:08 PM   #11
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Composition must be their favorite button currently.
I got it on 4 different pictures last week. Here is my first submission, cropped and re-cropped, 3x - Composition so I just quit trying since it didn't suit me.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:27 PM   #12
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Composition must be their favorite button currently.
I got it on 4 different pictures last week. Here is my first submission, cropped and re-cropped, 3x - Composition so I just quit trying since it didn't suit me.
This one's pretty easy to see. The subject is centered vertically, and there's a whole lot of dead space on the left.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:46 PM   #13
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This one's pretty easy to see. The subject is centered vertically, and there's a whole lot of dead space on the left.

This was my 3rd attempt/comp. rejection. Still didnt suit RP
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:47 PM   #14
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Composition must be their favorite button currently.
I got it on 4 different pictures last week. Here is my first submission, cropped and re-cropped, 3x - Composition so I just quit trying since it didn't suit me.
Sorry, but if I'm scrolling through a gallery of photos, I wouldn't be stopping for that one.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:54 PM   #15
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Sorry, but if I'm scrolling through a gallery of photos, I wouldn't be stopping for that one.
Sure its not show stopper, which is a majority of the pics on RP and in my collection but knocking it out the park on every pic is un-realistic. Besides, I have other objectives for getting pics on RP or posting here on the forums.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:57 PM   #16
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Rp probably wants a wedgie here....
Yup. They say they don't want just cookie-cutter wedgies, but they push submissions in that direction with their rejections.
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:03 PM   #17
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Yup. They say they don't want just cookie-cutter wedgies, but they push submissions in that direction with their rejections.
Hit the nail on the head with this one
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:45 PM   #18
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This was my 3rd attempt/comp. rejection. Still didnt suit RP
With all of the dead space, I'm not sure why you are using a wide aspect ratio - that just exaggerates the compositional issue of dead space on the side. I also don't know why in the second attachment, you put the subject so close to the edge, since that also exaggerates the dead space on the left. Given the original image, Here is my take on a composition that works somewhat better.

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Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW View Post
Sure its not show stopper, which is a majority of the pics on RP and in my collection but knocking it out the park on every pic is un-realistic. Besides, I have other objectives for getting pics on RP or posting here on the forums.
You don't have to knock it out of the park on every picture, but I think you'll find more improvement in your photography if you try to. I was always fortunate to have friends who were good photographers, and there was always a friendly rivalry to better the other guy, which drove us all to be better.I tend to agree with miningcamper that I would scroll past this thumbnail. As I scan my old slides, I find for every image that I post, there are four that I don't. I would rather not post an image than post one that isn't interesting. For me, a shot of an NS widecab nose in a nondescript location isn't compelling.
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:51 PM   #19
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For me, I would rather not post an image than post one that isn't interesting. For me, a shot of an NS widecab nose in a nondescript location isn't compelling.
I agree wholeheartedly.

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Old 06-12-2017, 09:51 PM   #20
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Yup. They say they don't want just cookie-cutter wedgies, but they push submissions in that direction with their rejections.
If they would have hit it with a poor lighting rejection we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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Old 06-12-2017, 10:15 PM   #21
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.......... For me, a shot of an NS widecab nose in a nondescript location isn't compelling.
While I agree with you as well, boring dash 9 but again my original attempt to get that pic to posted on RP had ulterior motive. However I added it to this thread simply to make a point that RP is stuck in "Composition mode" They want it different or out of the park but they put the brakes on by limiting the photographer to stay inside the cookie cutter.

I am all for a challenge which is why Im on here/RP. 95% of the pics I take are all learning tools and just one more reason to harder the next time.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:26 PM   #22
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[quote=Decapod401;191522]With all of the dead space, I'm not sure why you are using a wide aspect ratio - that just exaggerates the compositional issue of dead space on the side. I also don't know why in the second attachment, you put the subject so close to the edge, since that also exaggerates the dead space on the left. Given the original image, Here is my take on a composition that works somewhat better.

Attachment 9451



Thanks for your attempt/try but to me, I'd never try this type crop for fear of the "Centered" rejection.

My original goal in first submission was to keep the bridge in the pic but the engine is simply to far back for that to work. Had I caught the train on the main coming towards me in the pic then I could have pulled that off (or so I hope) by letting that loco be as close to the left side of the frame as possible while keeping the bridge in the foreground.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:30 PM   #23
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While I agree with you as well, boring dash 9 but again my original attempt to get that pic to posted on RP had ulterior motive. However I added it to this thread simply to make a point that RP is stuck in "Composition mode" They want it different or out of the park but they put the brakes on by limiting the photographer to stay inside the cookie cutter.
Now you've piqued my interest. What about your compositions that you shared are more compelling than a more "conventional" take on the arrangement of the photo's elements? I'm not saying that you shouldn't break "rules", but doing so has to result in an interesting image.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:38 PM   #24
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Thanks for your attempt/try but to me, I'd never try this type crop for fear of the "Centered" rejection.
I did this on my laptop in a simple editing tool with no grid, but to my eye, this is compliant with the ROT - not centered vertically or horizontally.

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My original goal in first submission was to keep the bridge in the pic but the engine is simply to far back for that to work. Had I caught the train on the main coming towards me in the pic then I could have pulled that off (or so I hope) by letting that loco be as close to the left side of the frame as possible while keeping the bridge in the foreground.
I agree that the composition that you described could have been more interesting, but that's not what you got.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:11 PM   #25
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Now you've piqued my interest. What about your compositions that you shared are more compelling than a more "conventional" take on the arrangement of the photo's elements? I'm not saying that you shouldn't break "rules", but doing so has to result in an interesting image.
The compositions I've shared.... I assume you mean those of mine that have made it on RP. If so, then most of them I call my "rookie" pics, so now that I'm a little more seasoned, they dont seem as compelling to me now as they did then when RP accepted them. If Ive learned nothing else from RP, I've learned to break the rules. If not, then its just cookie cutter. Nothing wrong with those pics, just not what Im after unless its all I have to work. Which here on the CW, where NS dumps it worn out rejects, that is usually all you get. They too, one day will be relics...

If I've missed your point, then break it down for me.....
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