Old 10-20-2017, 06:38 PM   #1
Grewup on the CW
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Default Aggravating Rejections

Just submitted a pic to which I got "Soft" rejection and no other rejection. I sharpened it up a bit, as suggested by the screener and resubmitted within 30 mins or less. Then got the dreaded PAQ rejection. Seriously, if its the same screener, why not slam the door shut on a submission the first time??? Its aggravating when there is no consistency or random rejections.
Here is the link for your 7 day viewing. Feel free to make suggestions or pick apart, I got thick skin.........
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...36&key=1534201
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:27 PM   #2
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Just submitted a pic to which I got "Soft" rejection and no other rejection. I sharpened it up a bit, as suggested by the screener and resubmitted within 30 mins or less. Then got the dreaded PAQ rejection. Seriously, if its the same screener, why not slam the door shut on a submission the first time??? Its aggravating when there is no consistency or random rejections.
Here is the link for your 7 day viewing. Feel free to make suggestions or pick apart, I got thick skin.........
http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...36&key=1534201
A long-standing pet peeve of mine has been getting the killer rejection after correcting for a fixable rejection. That said, I have learned when submitting an image that may be subject to a killer subjective rejection, I double-check all technical elements before submitting. A rejection will come based on the first thing that the screener sees or the most convenient rejection reason on the menu. If you eliminate all other criteria for rejection from the photo, it may get a PAQ, or it may strike a chord with the screener and be accepted. If you go in with the attitude that it will probably get a PAQ, it is a nice surprise when it gets accepted, and you have not set yourself up for aggravation when it gets the PAQ.

FWIW, I would have expected a PAQ for this image.
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:32 PM   #3
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A long-standing pet peeve...

FWIW, I would have expected a PAQ for this image.
For what reason, in your opinion? So that if I am presented with another opportunity as such in the future.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:01 PM   #4
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Positives:
Something a little different.
Crew's-eye view.

Negatives:
Grubby weather.
Very shallow depth of sharp focus.
Reflection in glass.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:23 PM   #5
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Positives:
Something a little different.
Crew's-eye view.

Negatives:
Grubby weather.
Very narrow zone of sharp focus.
Reflection in glass.
Something different was what I was after, Im bored with the wedgies.
Crew's view, especially as a guest/non worker is rare.
Grubby weather was a downer but not the experience. Personally I dont mind clouds cuz everyday is not always sunny.

Thanks for the constructive comments.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:26 PM   #6
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For what reason, in your opinion? So that if I am presented with another opportunity as such in the future.
Miningcamper hit on some of the issues. From my perspective, the scene is a long hood of an engine and nondescript empty track. For this to work for RP, there has to be an element of interest, whether it is a station, a train waiting in a siding, or a tunnel portal. A view out of an engine's window isn't enough to be of interest of RP, or many of its viewers. Did you take any candid shots of the engineer at work? That would be interesting.

My point wasn't to take a shot at your photo, just to say that if I were submitting it, my expectations would be that it is outside of the RP norm, and would not be accepted. Getting aggravated is a lot less productive than treating a photo like it may be pushing the limits of RP.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:28 PM   #7
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Positives:
...
Very narrow zone of sharp focus.
Reflection in glass.
Sharp - I might add that we were rolling at the time, not at track speed but getting there...
I tried to hide the reflection but not a possibility
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:36 PM   #8
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Miningcamper hit on some of the issues. From my perspective, the scene is a long hood of an engine and nondescript empty track. For this to work for RP, there has to be an element of interest, whether it is a station, a train waiting in a siding, or a tunnel portal. A view out of an engine's window isn't enough to be of interest of RP, or many of its viewers. Did you take any candid shots of the engineer at work? That would be interesting.

My point wasn't to take a shot at your photo, just to say that if I were submitting it, my expectations would be that it is outside of the RP norm, and would not be accepted. Getting aggravated is a lot less productive than treating a photo like it may be pushing the limits of RP.
Doug no offense was taken to your comments. I was just wanting you to explain further. Different perspectives creates more thoughts for future planning.
I did take shots of the crew but do not have permission to post those.
Unfortunately with RP's inconsistency's, I submit every pic with expecting that something will be wrong with it, that way I'm not so disappointed. My beef is fix this, fix that, then get PAQ.....
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:49 PM   #9
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I hate the second or even third rejections but can only guess they go down a checklist or there may even be an automated function. Whenever I go far out of the ordinary I expect the "we don't want" and have had little success. I'd say here the reflection is a major technical flaw and something that could have been detected and maybe corrected by changing the angle???

I had this one with intentional reflection I thought was nifty, rejected but now accepted in local photo contest so good to have other outlets that may be more suitable

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Old 10-20-2017, 09:00 PM   #10
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I hate the second or even third rejections but can only guess they go down a checklist or there may even be an automated function. Whenever I go far out of the ordinary I expect the "we don't want" and have had little success. I'd say here the reflection is a major technical flaw and something that could have been detected and maybe corrected by changing the angle???

I had this one with intentional reflection I thought was nifty, rejected but now accepted in local photo contest so good to have other outlets that may be more suitable

Bob
Cool reflection in your pic, I like. Mine was not planned or avoidable at the time. We had just starting rolling and the conductor was right behind me on the phone/mic watching and reporting or location. I had only 15 mins to get everything in and was snapping and looking for everything around me. I had no time to review on the camera and frankly, I was too excited to think about the reflection, so chalk that mistake up to inexperience. I did however grab some interesting shots down the track as Doug mentioned but it was with my cell phone and I dont post pics from my cell phone.
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Old 10-20-2017, 09:15 PM   #11
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Thanks, well sounds like you had a great experience and would like to share that, so sorry didn't work out.


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Old 10-20-2017, 09:23 PM   #12
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My beef is fix this, fix that, then get PAQ.....
That was the point of my first response. Make sure the technical issues are all addressed before submission, and that leaves the killer rejection as the screener's only option.
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Old 10-20-2017, 11:15 PM   #13
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To further illustrate my point about views from the cab window, look at this recent addition:

Image © Steve Patterson
PhotoID: 632599
Photograph © Steve Patterson



Forget about the factors that the image is almost 50 years old, or that the opposing train has F-units. Would the photo have been nearly as interesting if the opposing train wasn't there?
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:56 PM   #14
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I personally don't understand why the OP thinks this is a good shot
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:54 PM   #15
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I personally don't understand why the OP thinks this is a good shot
This hobby, like any endeavor worth doing, is a process of constant learning in the pursuit of continual improvement. Some of us have been around long enough to learn more than others, and some of the posters here, including the OP to this thread, are asking questions to benefit from others experience. They're not looking to get a "that shot sucks" or "what were you thinking" response, and that kind of response adds no value to the discussion without offering some advice on how to improve.

My belief here is that the OP is making a mistake that we all have done at one time or another. He had the great experience of his first cab ride, and has an emotional connection to the photo taken during that experience. The problem is that the photo doesn't convey that experience to a viewer that wasn't there. I'm sure that we all have photos that make us smile when we come across them in our collections, but objectively do not tell the story in a way that other people can relate.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:40 PM   #16
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My belief here is that the OP is making a mistake that we all have done at one time or another. He had the great experience of his first cab ride, and has an emotional connection to the photo taken during that experience. The problem is that the photo doesn't convey that experience to a viewer that wasn't there. I'm sure that we all have photos that make us smile when we come across them in our collections, but objectively do not tell the story in a way that other people can relate.
Spot-on, Doug, and I'll ad one additional thing. The OP was clearly excited by the experience, but in order to convey that excitement, the photo needs something more than just track ahead. Crew members trackside, infrastructure, passing trains....anything but the long hood and the difficulties with DOF that presents. A shot pulling into the station with people on the platform might help fill out that right side with interest. Long hood forward is tough.
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Old 10-23-2017, 01:21 AM   #17
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This hobby, like any endeavor worth doing, is a process of constant learning in the pursuit of continual improvement. Some of us have been around long enough to learn more than others, and some of the posters here, including the OP to this thread, are asking questions to benefit from others experience. They're not looking to get a "that shot sucks" or "what were you thinking" response, and that kind of response adds no value to the discussion without offering some advice on how to improve.

My belief here is that the OP is making a mistake that we all have done at one time or another. He had the great experience of his first cab ride, and has an emotional connection to the photo taken during that experience. The problem is that the photo doesn't convey that experience to a viewer that wasn't there. I'm sure that we all have photos that make us smile when we come across them in our collections, but objectively do not tell the story in a way that other people can relate.
Couldn't have said this better myself. Very well said with all points.
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:46 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Decapod401 View Post
This hobby, like any endeavor worth doing, is a process of constant learning in the pursuit of continual improvement. Some of us have been around long enough to learn more than others, and some of the posters here, including the OP to this thread, are asking questions to benefit from others experience. They're not looking to get a "that shot sucks" or "what were you thinking" response, and that kind of response adds no value to the discussion without offering some advice on how to improve.

My belief here is that the OP is making a mistake that we all have done at one time or another. He had the great experience of his first cab ride, and has an emotional connection to the photo taken during that experience. The problem is that the photo doesn't convey that experience to a viewer that wasn't there. I'm sure that we all have photos that make us smile when we come across them in our collections, but objectively do not tell the story in a way that other people can relate.
Doug,
Your comment, and as other after you have mentioned, does some it up. I posted my pic on here for constructive advice and constructive suggestions on how to improve. I read the forums quite frequently for the sole purpose of collecting useful knowledge. Useful experienced knowledge is far better than an opinionated remark with no constructive guidance.
In response to other suggestions for additional things to look at in the shot I posted, I do have several other shots as suggested, crew and station, unfortunately I dont have permission to post pics with the crew in those. So I picked the best shot I had outside of those more detailed shots and crossed my fingers that I was good enough for RP. But it wasn't and thats Ok, I still got the experience of the ride and for the life of this thread, I got to tell my story and collect more useful knowledge from these forums, as they were intended to, in the process.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:19 AM   #19
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Doug,
Your comment, and as other after you have mentioned, does some it up. I posted my pic on here for constructive advice and constructive suggestions on how to improve. I read the forums quite frequently for the sole purpose of collecting useful knowledge. Useful experienced knowledge is far better than an opinionated remark with no constructive guidance.
In response to other suggestions for additional things to look at in the shot I posted, I do have several other shots as suggested, crew and station, unfortunately I dont have permission to post pics with the crew in those. So I picked the best shot I had outside of those more detailed shots and crossed my fingers that I was good enough for RP. But it wasn't and thats Ok, I still got the experience of the ride and for the life of this thread, I got to tell my story and collect more useful knowledge from these forums, as they were intended to, in the process.
I could pick it apart piece by piece too, if you would like... I thought I was giving you the message without any undue drama.

Sometimes you need to hear blunt criticisms like mine.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:25 AM   #20
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Sometimes you need to hear blunt criticisms like mine.
If people post in the forums to learn and improve, your comments are not helpful in the slightest, and no, I don't think anyone "needs" to hear them.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:30 AM   #21
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If people post in the forums to learn and improve, your comments are not helpful in the slightest, and no, I don't think anyone "needs" to hear them.
I wasn't talking to you...

I learned a long time ago that it was useless giving you any advice, because you obviously do not listen
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Old 10-24-2017, 02:52 PM   #22
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I could pick it apart piece by piece too, if you would like... I thought I was giving you the message without any undue drama.

Sometimes you need to hear blunt criticisms like mine.
Troy,
I read the forums for several years before signing up to post new threads or make comments and it didnt take me long to figure out the "constructive" helpful posters on here. Your comments, for the majority of the time, are short, blunt and nonconstructive. I opened the door in my original post "Feel free to make suggestions or pick apart, I got thick skin........." yet you chose to post your normal nonconstructive remark. All I got form your comment was "Why bother to try if that is all you can do..." You tell me what I can take to the bank from your original comment?? Then you get offend when other posters take offense to your comment. We are all here on RP and the forums for for two passions, Railroading and photography. Harsh comments will only reap a harsh response (and they have their time an place) but here on the forums, especially when a poster is looking for "Constructive" help or advise your normal one liners brings nothing to the table. Bluntness seems to be your choice approach but why not do it in a constructive and helpful way??
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:54 PM   #23
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Ok, here we go.

1. glare / reflection from the window behind you, SUPER DISTRACTING - and lots of NOISE in there
2. Air intake hump thing and corresponding black /dark area - bad
3. cannot see detail on dynamic brake blister due to previously mentioned glare/reflection
4. Super distracting cable/rod/arm, whatever the hell is in the upper right of the frame, this will almost universally cause a rejection, for good reason. It's also an artistic detractor
5. Subject matter - no clear focus here. Your eyes wander, what the hell am I actually looking at here, there is no sense of what the viewer should be looking at
6. blur / lack of focus in background and ballast / trees. Nothing in focus other than the walkway of the long hood and maybe a door or 2

I'm not trying to be rude here, but there is just so much wrong here.

This is not the typical "out of the locomotive engineer's window" shot, because usually those have some sort of clear subject matter and focus to bring the viewer's eyes to.

This one has none of that, and it introduces so many bad things that it just doesn't make it a good photo, under any circumstances. And quite honestly they got it right.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:09 PM   #24
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Ok, here we go.

1. glare / reflection from the window behind you, SUPER DISTRACTING - and lots of NOISE in there
2. Air intake hump thing and corresponding black /dark area - bad
3. cannot see detail on dynamic brake blister due to previously mentioned glare/reflection
4. Super distracting cable/rod/arm, whatever the hell is in the upper right of the frame, this will almost universally cause a rejection, for good reason. It's also an artistic detractor
5. Subject matter - no clear focus here. Your eyes wander, what the hell am I actually looking at here, there is no sense of what the viewer should be looking at
6. blur / lack of focus in background and ballast / trees. Nothing in focus other than the walkway of the long hood and maybe a door or 2

I'm not trying to be rude here, but there is just so much wrong here.

This is not the typical "out of the locomotive engineer's window" shot, because usually those have some sort of clear subject matter and focus to bring the viewer's eyes to.

This one has none of that, and it introduces so many bad things that it just doesn't make it a good photo, under any circumstances. And quite honestly they got it right.
Now that's useful info/view point, something to take to the bank.
Most of the out of focus, I believe, is due to the fact we were rolling at 20 + mph on our way to track speed.
I'm fine with everybody's comments towards my picture, I wasn't looking to fix it and hope to get it on RP. I got alot of useful info now to apply for the next time.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:47 PM   #25
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Now that's useful info/view point, something to take to the bank.
Most of the out of focus, I believe, is due to the fact we were rolling at 20 + mph on our way to track speed.
I'm fine with everybody's comments towards my picture, I wasn't looking to fix it and hope to get it on RP. I got alot of useful info now to apply for the next time.
I didn't really look at your exposure settings, but you need to be somewhere around 1/500 or 1/640 when attempting a shot like this if you want to freeze motion. I realize it's challenging when the light conditions are what they were.
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