Old 01-14-2009, 06:12 PM   #1
John West
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Default Boycott Adobe!

I am really getting upset with Adobe. I have been a Photoshop user since a version of PS came free with my first printer many years ago. Back in those days a single version worked for both Mac and PC. Since then I have purchased many versions, especially since they decided I needed different versions for Mac and PC. But Adobe seems to be getting into my pocketbook just a bit too often now with new versions and quickly abandoned older versions.

I am appalled that PSE 5, which I purchased just over a year ago, not only has been superceded by a new version, but is getting absolutely no support from Adobe. No support means no updates for raw converters as new cameras come out.

Four years ago I invested significant money in their Creative Suite Premium (CS2). That was a big bucks investment. Not only is CS2 no longer supported, but its successor CS3 is no longer supported. I can understand the need for new versions as technology marches on, but the lack of support for expensive not that old software smacks of greed and a screw the customer attitude.

Adobe has for a long time enjoyed a near monopoly on the serious graphics market, and their products are good. But I wonder how many customers they are pissing off.

I for one will be making a major effort to learn how to use Apple's Aperature, which seems to be a reasonable alternative for many purposes. And so far CS2 is doing what I need it to do, with the exception of the camera raw interfaces, which I can work around. My future business with Adobe will probably be limited to the occasional investment in a cheap version of PSE that I will treat as throw away software.

Of course, I'm an old fart used to keeping my cars for 20 years, and having a hard time adapting to the fact that all computer stuff is throwaway.

Just blowing off steam!
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John West
I am appalled that PSE 5, which I purchased just over a year ago, not only has been superceded by a new version, but is getting absolutely no support from Adobe. No support means no updates for raw converters as new cameras come out.
That's always been one of my biggest objections to raw (not to mention the filesizes). There are no standards, everything's proprietary, and continuity of support is not guaranteed. It's the manufacturer's key to planned obsolescence. I protest by shooting LF JPEGs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by John West
Of course, I'm an old fart used to keeping my cars for 20 years, and having a hard time adapting to the fact that all computer stuff is throwaway.
I'm with you John. I take care of my stuff and run it into the ground. I still have a Nikkormat FT2 from 1976 and aside from some metering issues, it still takes good pictures. Having just spent nearly $850 on a new D90 body, it is difficult for me to view it as the throw-away the manufacturer intends it to be. My D40x is only a year old and has already been relegated to back-up status. My Coolpix 5700 is now nearly 5 years old and is so pitifully obsolete that I haven't picked it up in nearly 2 years.

Technology will see to it that none of us will ever be able to afford to retire.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:52 PM   #3
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This is frustrating John- I bought Capture One for Raw conversion 3 years ago, and they have supported it just fine, and not to mention it works better than Adobe for RAW processing IMO, and I take the RAW file into Photoshop.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinderpath
This is frustrating John- I bought Capture One for Raw conversion 3 years ago, and they have supported it just fine, and not to mention it works better than Adobe for RAW processing IMO, and I take the RAW file into Photoshop.
I was looking at Capture One, it seems to be a very well regarded program. But the price tag I saw was about $375, and I figured that was a bit rich for what I need.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:22 AM   #5
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I am photoshop stupid, but I thought you could use Adobe Camera Raw (which is updated frequently) in CS2, 3 or 4.
My understanding is ACR is used to convert the file then you can use it in any application you want. But like I say, I am PS stupid.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John West
having a hard time adapting to the fact that all computer stuff is throwaway.


Anymore the minute you buy it, it's obsolete. I can't keep up with technology.
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Save The Wave
I am photoshop stupid, but I thought you could use Adobe Camera Raw (which is updated frequently) in CS2, 3 or 4.
My understanding is ACR is used to convert the file then you can use it in any application you want. But like I say, I am PS stupid.
You would think...but Adobe doesn't make newer versions of ACR compatible with the older versions of Photoshop, so no opening RAW files from your new camera. CS2's latest ACR doesn't open 40D RAW. TOTAL FAIL! Like John said, it's really annoying and smacks of greed...
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John West
I was looking at Capture One, it seems to be a very well regarded program. But the price tag I saw was about $375, and I figured that was a bit rich for what I need.

I believe that is for the Pro version, (not necessary) I believe the regular version is $99.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:11 PM   #9
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Hold on here a second.... you people are saying NEFs from newer Nikon cameras are not supported on CS2? Does this include the D300?
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdirelan87
Hold on here a second.... you people are saying NEFs from newer Nikon cameras are not supported on CS2? Does this include the D300?
You would have to go though the list of Photoshop plug-ins to find the one that includes the D300 and see what versions of Photoshop it is compatible with. The D300 is a small bit older than the D90, so the result might be different, but the update for the D90 raw was not compatible with CS2, and if I remember correctly it was not even compatible with the newer CS3. Adobe seems to abandon older versions of software rather quickly, which was my point in my original post.

Regarding Capture One:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinderpath
I believe that is for the Pro version, (not necessary) I believe the regular version is $99.
You are right about the lower price. Now the question is whether they are still updating the version that will run on my OS 10.3.9. I have an email into them that hasn't yet been answered.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:54 PM   #11
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Your right! I boycott Adobe by never owning their products! I have always used Nikon's software. I can pretty much do anything that PS can do with Capture NX2. I'm not sure if Canon had their own powerfull editing software such as this.

-- Kevin
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by TheRoadForeman
Your right! I boycott Adobe by never owning their products! I have always used Nikon's software. I can pretty much do anything that PS can do with Capture NX2. I'm not sure if Canon had their own powerfull editing software such as this.

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Old 01-20-2009, 04:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John West
I am really getting upset with Adobe.

I am appalled that PSE 5, which I purchased just over a year ago, not only has been superceded by a new version, but is getting absolutely no support from Adobe. No support means no updates for raw converters as new cameras come out.

Not only is CS2 no longer supported, but its successor CS3 is no longer supported. I can understand the need for new versions as technology marches on.
Just blowing off steam!
Well the up grades from one to the other are not full cost, so that helps. I got PS E6 and was offered CS 6 or 7 ? was just $250.00 and E6 was only $80 so i see it as taking care of the ones that buy there programs.
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMR159
Canon's Digital Photo Professional is a joke IMO.
Well it much better than that and its free, If they would trim the fat off it would be as good as the others, it still the software to use if doing night shot's.
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Old 02-08-2009, 04:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John West
: No support means no updates for raw converters as new cameras come out.
A solution for this is to use the (free) Adobe DNG converter.

http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/
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Old 02-08-2009, 05:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by na4m
A solution for this is to use the (free) Adobe DNG converter.

http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/
Notice that Canon and Nikon are absent from the list of camera manufacturers that supports Adobe's DNG. If the two biggest players in the game are not on board, what does that tell you?

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Old 02-08-2009, 05:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by na4m
A solution for this is to use the (free) Adobe DNG converter.

http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/
Can you show how this allows me to open a Nikon D90 raw file in Photoshop CS2, not to mention some of the more recent PSE versions that Adobe no longer provides support for.

Adobe DNG appears to be a reasonable attempt to establish a standard, but as Michael pointed out, at least two of the major camera manufacturers have not signed on.

The underlying issue seems to be who will bear the cost of file translation and compatibility as operating systems and applications are constantly changed. Adobe DNG appears to be an attempt by Adobe to get others to do the work. Obviously Nikon and Canon feel they have enough clout to get Adobe and others to do the work. And this is just part of the problem, since the application folks are faced with adapting programs to be compatible with constantly changing operating systems.

Consumers clearly benefit from the technological advancements, but at some point we consumers need to exert some influence over how much cost we are willing to bear for all this.
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:37 PM   #18
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Default DNG Converter

Hi John,

Go to the Adobe website, search around the download area and get DNG Converter for you OS.

The converter will change you Nikon format raw files to .dng format, you can then open that file in an earlier version of Photo shop.

I do agree with you that Adobe should make each version of ACR backward compatible, but there's no money in doing that!

Keep well

Alan

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Old 02-08-2009, 08:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan-crotty
Hi John,

Go to the Adobe website, search around the download area and get DNG Converter for you OS.

The converter will change you Nikon format raw files to .dng format, you can then open that file in an earlier version of Photo shop.

I do agree with you that Adobe should make each version of ACR backward compatible, but there's no money in doing that!

Keep well

Alan
My problem Alan is that by stubbornly riding the trailing edge of the wave of progress I gave created a multi-dimensional set of constraints. Not only is my CS2 no longer supported, but the operating system (OS 10.3.9) it runs on is obsolete, and the hardware is even older. In the case in point, the DNG download that works for CS2 needs OS 4. Keep in mind that Mac is up to OS 5, and has switched from AMD to Intel processors. Heck, my hardware is probably at least two more likely three or four generations behind the times.

The solution is I need to bite the bullet and spend some money for a new desktop puter. My laptop is state of the art (well, almost, it's a few months old) and all this new whiz bang stuff is good.

The real question is whether the new CS version of Photoshop is worth the money, or can I survive on a cheap PSE.

As I noted in my first post, mostly I'm just letting off steam because I'm one of those guys who used to keep a car for 20 years.
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