Old 07-29-2011, 06:50 PM   #1
stlgevo51
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Default A Shot to Challenge Even the Masters of Leveling

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreje...&key=231240562

That means you, Jim Thais. Disregard the undersharpened reject. How do I possibly level this? There are way too many poles. I can't tell which ones are level and which ones aren't. Thanks for any help!
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:03 PM   #2
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Just look at it.. Give it some CCW. I'm taking the bad track into consideration, but the whole scene is leaning to the right a hair.

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Old 07-29-2011, 07:41 PM   #3
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wow. what a mess. any more CCW and that cement truck might fall over.
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:50 PM   #4
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I might would appeal and say it is level judging from the gondola and caboose. Another appeal might be, "How the hell do you expect me to level this?" Although the tone might not be so good. I'm not sure what to level off, although the road signs seem good to me. But I'll defer to Thias.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:20 PM   #5
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I'd fix the sharpening issue and then resubmit with a note saying that, while "unlevel" was also given as an initial rejection reason, the shot is in fact level. If you lay a grid over it, I think you'll find that the 2 highway signs smack dab in the middle (the Jct. Sign and the big sign) have posts that are perfectly vertical. I think you got it right.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:38 PM   #6
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Looks level to me. Look at the left side of the gondola. The track on the left looks pretty bad, so I think the loco leaning is legit.

Great picture, btw.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:25 PM   #7
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Go with what Jon said. I said appeal, forgetting about the sharpening issue.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:07 AM   #8
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It looks fine to me. All that lens correction stuff, leveling and such is for the birds. What happened to honesty in photography? This kind of drivel only started with digital photography and Photoshop, so it's a recent "thing."

It's an excellent shot. I would appeal, for sure.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:21 AM   #9
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[quote=Ron Flanary;140382]All that lens correction stuff, leveling and such is for the birds. What happened to honesty in photography? This kind of drivel only started with digital photography and Photoshop, so it's a recent "thing."/QUOTE]
Ron;

That complete and utter rubbish, with all due respect. This kind of "drivel" did not start with digital photography. People have always tried to enhance their shots. Back in the day, they did it in a darkroom. If I've been in one or two in my relatively short time as a photog, I know you have been in a few here and there. I'm guessing you have dodged and burned, cut and cropped, etc. etc.

You wrote a short paragraph, but it says a lot. Hoesty in photography? The camera does not see a scene the way the human eye does. So in that regard, maybe we'll never have what you would call "honesty" in photography. What I think that means to you is more darkroom trickery or post processing than you would do. If a scene is unlevel, one has to correct it, do they not? Or must they go back and reshoot the scene? What if it was a once in a life time photo? Oops. Too bad.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
It looks fine to me. All that lens correction stuff, leveling and such is for the birds. What happened to honesty in photography? This kind of drivel only started with digital photography and Photoshop, so it's a recent "thing."

It's an excellent shot. I would appeal, for sure.
I agree, it looks fine to me as well. With that many unlevel verticals in the shot, even if it were truly level, it would still look unlevel.

Also, Photoshop was invented in 1988, long before digital photography became accessible to most photographers. And also long before photographers were manipulating digital photos, they were manipulating photos that were scanned from film. I did so myself back in the mid-90s with photoshop a full 7 years before I had my first digital camera.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:11 AM   #11
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Dont appeal it, regardless of the levelness (I agree, there is no fixing it), it's soft, and overexposed.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:27 AM   #12
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Lightbulb I concur

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnohallman View Post
I'd fix the sharpening issue and then resubmit with a note saying that, while "unlevel" was also given as an initial rejection reason, the shot is in fact level. If you lay a grid over it, I think you'll find that the 2 highway signs smack dab in the middle (the Jct. Sign and the big sign) have posts that are perfectly vertical. I think you got it right.

Jon
I concur and the signs in the center ought to be plumb while the objects on both sides would tend to bend as a function of how far from the center they are.
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:35 PM   #13
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OK guys-----point made. I still like the shot though.

Now, I've gotta dig out all my old dark room equipment and do a little more dishonest old time printin'----like those good ol' days.

RF
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:57 PM   #14
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Thanks for all of the help guys! I will sharpen it up and fix the overexposure and resubmit.

As for the whole photoshop conversation, it kind of goes both ways for me. I mean, it is said that O. Winston Link added the airplane on the drive in screen in his famous image, which obviously was way before photoshop. On the other hand, I am not a fan of doing this in Link's days or now days. Fake snow, etc., have been one down fall in modern day photoshop. But also, I don't shoot "level" images straight from the camera. I usually need to level them a bit before they look good. I don't think there is a problem with that.
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:33 PM   #15
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
.....Now, I've gotta dig out all my old dark room equipment and do a little more dishonest old time printin'----like those good ol' days.
I'm done doing that.

Digital is faster and considerably cheaper.

Especially when it comes to color images.

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Old 07-30-2011, 09:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Flanary View Post
OK guys-----point made. I still like the shot though.

Now, I've gotta dig out all my old dark room equipment and do a little more dishonest old time printin'----like those good ol' days.

RF
Just make sure you don't get out your old film camera at the same time and put one of those totally dishonest tilt/shift lenses on it to correct perspective, or (gasp!) a graduated N/D filter to keep the snow on the mountain tops from looking overexposed!
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Old 07-31-2011, 12:33 AM   #17
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Guys....I was being facetious. I sold my darkroom equipment 25 years ago. Duh....
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Old 07-31-2011, 02:58 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlgevo51 View Post
But also, I don't shoot "level" images straight from the camera.
Me neither. And that's why I'm so anal about photos being level. I have to level every one of mine, so I've kind of developed an eye for it.
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Old 07-31-2011, 05:20 AM   #19
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That...is a lot of poles.. I hate trying to level a shot when everything in the scene is unlevel in person.
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