Railpictures, new rules: the beginning of death !

[Daniel MINACA]

Hi Railpictures community,

I really thing that is the beginning of death for Raipictures site, much more best photographer are leaving because screener's are makes "good job" regarding posted photos and most often the rejection reasons are not justified... I'm tired about that, even when non American pictures are botched and rejected with wacky reasons .
Does they takes some pictures ??? I questioned about that !

May be I will be banned for this message, anyway screener's forgot that this site have been made by all non RPN Elite.
Oh I forgot: Now the number of uploaded pictures is restricted about 2 photos per 24 hours... and in few months non RPN Elite's will have 1 picture per day or why not per week ??? May be money is most important .

Very bad context, the RPN staff must react quickly, this is the wrong way otherwise it is the death of this website.

Daniel.

[Ron Flanary]

There may be some truth in that. Everything runs its course. Lots of great photographers just don't have the interest or the time to go through the RP critique process, so those shots go on Facebook, Flickr or somewhere else. I find myself uploading to RP less and less. I rarely get rejected, so that's not a reason. I guess my interest is just slowly dying. The site needs some type of boost of new energy and innovation. I don't know that is, however.

[troy12n]

What new rules?

[John West]

RP needs a MAJOR graphics upgrade. I tend to post more and more on Flickr because the images simply look better there, the thumbnails are bigger and you can scan through them far more quickly. The screening process is far less important when you can scan through the (larger) thumbnails to fast, in effect doing your own screening. The screening process at RP is only as good as the screeners are, since in graphics the rules are only a starting point and in the hands of a good artist violating the rules is one of ways to creating above average images. But I still enjoy RP for all its warts, it still draws more views and usually more comments than Flickr. I doubt that the perfect site that we all want will ever exist simply because "screening" is not only judgmental but there are all kinds of different "kinds" of images. RP seems to have started with a well lit three quarter front view locomotive image objective and has evolved somewhat from that. And that evolution is not necessarily good because a screener who can pick a great well lit three quarter loco view will not necessarily be good at picking some of the PS manipulated stuff we are seeing these days.

[JRMDC]

John, I maybe don't yet have the knack of scrolling through flickr; I find the way it jams images together on the screen annoying.

As for RP, I do like the "photos only - 90 per page" view - a good balance between thumbnail size and being able to scroll through a bunch of junk quickly:
http://www.railpictures.net/showphot...&newdisplay=10

[Ron Flanary]

But to John's point---a site like Flickr (despite the format objections of some) allows shots to be uploaded at the discretion of the photographer. I realize many photographers are clueless when it comes to the basics of what constitutes a good image, but you can pick and choose who you want to "follow."

I still post to RP, but not as often as I once did. I have no beef with the screeners, as they're usually nice to me and my images. I understand what they like---but that's a constraint, because I might have something really "out there" that I like, but it will have a slim chance of being accepted.

For the most part, I've just double-posted my shots recently to RP and Flickr. There are some exceptions though:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91191585@N07/

Ron

[John West]

Originally Posted by JRMDC

John, I maybe don't yet have the knack of scrolling through flickr; I find the way it jams images together on the screen annoying.

What I like about the graphics at Flicker is the full size views, in particular the black background. And I will swear that my images look sharper on Flickr....although I do not have a clue why. And I believe you can upload larger images to Flickr although I have done so only a couple of times. And the layout is graphically simpler and more modern...but that of course is a matter of personal preference.

Personally the montage approach to the thumbnails works for me. One advantage of RP is the thumbnail also provides some of the info about the image.

The big advantage of RP is it is easier to see the work of various photographers. You can do it with Flickr but you either know who or what site to look for or it is a much more random search with lots of junk.

Net net I like both.

[Noct Foamer]

Originally Posted by John West

The big advantage of RP is it is easier to see the work of various photographers. You can do it with Flickr but you either know who or what site to look for or it is a much more random search with lots of junk.

Or subscribe to groups that interest you.


Kent in SD

[Mberry]

Originally Posted by John West

But I still enjoy RP for all its warts, it still draws more views and usually more comments than Flickr.

If you end up with enough followers, the opposite is very much the case. With a bit over 1,000 followers on Flickr, my 'average' shots will draw almost double as many views on flickr vs rp. Faves and comments are more plentiful on flickr by an even greater ratio, for whatever reason.

[Chase55671]

Oftentimes I've seen similar arguments that everything runs its course. Yahoo groups evolve into Facebook groups... Railpictures evolves into Flickr... And so forth. RP.Net, in my opinion has some major advantages over Flickr.

1. It is competitive. People like competition.
2. Some people like to learn... For the aspiring and up-and-coming artists, they enjoy the "learning" aspect that the rejection system offers.
3. An award system; the concept of SC, PCA, POTW, and the elusive EP awards.
4. Strong feedback; good views and a social media presence that helps.

Yes, I realize people leave because they are often offended or upset by what they classify as inconsistency, favoritism, etc. Anytime any of the aforementioned criteria is on the table, you'll have ruffled feathers and conflicting opinions. It's nature.

I conclude these very simple and basic statements with the following statistics.

July: 4,018 Photos Screened. More than 45 percent of those images have been accepted.

The year 2015 has brought us more than 45,000 uploads. 47 percent of our annual uploads have been accepted.

We have some terrific artists who are sharing their work with us; many of which I have had the opportunity to talk to this year. Technology and the digital age gives everybody an online destination to share their images. Railpictures continues to serve as a popular outlet for the many, many talented artists out there, particularly among the younger generation.

Chase Gunnoe

[miningcamper1]

Hmmmm. 47% got in. How are we to interpret that ?

I'd be more interested in how many got in after one or multiple rejections.

[Chase55671]

Originally Posted by miningcamper1

Hmmmm. 47% got in. How are we to interpret that ?

I'd be more interested in how many got in after one or multiple rejections.

You interpret it as 47 percent of images submitted (regardless of multiple attempts) are accepted. With an expanded rejection system in place now for roughly two years, it's reduced confusion with multiple uploads.

Chase

[Noct Foamer]

Originally Posted by Chase55671

The year 2015 has brought us more than 45,000 uploads. 47 percent of our annual uploads have been accepted.

I think you improve the site if you dropped that by half. However, I guess there is a fine line between having only really really good shots and discouraging large numbers of people not capable of producing on that level. (Of my own shots, I only really like about 5% of them.)

The biggest reservation I have about RP is once posted, I have zero control over the photo. On Flickr, I can add and delete them at will ("whim" might be more accurate. ) I don't really care about number of views, and I don't play the "fave" game. (I often do leave comments though.) If I were to post photos here, my preferred plan would be to post five every month, and then delete them at the start of a new month and add five new ones. I wouldn't want anything but my best, and that would never be more than five. Lately, I've pretty much stuck my Nikon D800E in the closet and have mostly been shooting a sweet little Nikon F3/T and HP5. There's not much interest in those kinds of shots and I really doubt any would be interesting to RP anyway. I do it mostly for self amusement. And who knows? Eventually I could come up with a pretty nice shot if I keep at it?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96826069@N00/


Kent in SD

[miningcamper1]

But Chase, why did you cite the 47% number at all? What is the relevance?

[Decapod401]

Originally Posted by miningcamper1

Hmmmm. 47% got in. How are we to interpret that ?

I'd be more interested in how many got in after one or multiple rejections.

I would also be interested in how many got a killer rejection after the photographer responded to one or more correctable rejections. It seems to me that having a mechanism for screeners to look at outstanding rejections before issuing a PAQ would not be difficult to implement. If the first screener thought that the image was worthy enough to be corrected, a subsequent PAQ should not be allowed. If you don't like the image, just give it a PAQ in the first place. Nothing is more frustrating than getting a killer rejection after being given the impression that a correction will get the image accepted.

[bigbassloyd]

Originally Posted by Noct Foamer

The biggest reservation I have about RP is once posted, I have zero control over the photo. On Flickr, I can add and delete them at will ("whim" might be more accurate. )

Kent in SD

I've deleted over 150 photos from my account with no issue. It's not that hard

Loyd L.

[Noct Foamer]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

I've deleted over 150 photos from my account with no issue. It's not that hard

OK, you have my attention. How can you do it?


Kent in SD

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by miningcamper1

But Chase, why did you cite the 47% number at all? What is the relevance?

I believe the number is significant because I can recall a time when more like 35% of submissions were accepted. I think it is indicative of the fact that RP now accepts a lot of images that would have been rejected several years ago. They are giving a fair bit more latitude on issues that used to be killers. Specifically, I see a lot of cloudy day and high sun images getting on, most notably, a lot of the recent 611 stuff. That's a good thing, because trains run 24-7, regardless of the weather or the elevation of the sun.

Between the somewhat relaxed screening standards, and the more affordable cost of high-resolution digital cameras, a lot more folks, particularly young folks, are getting into the hobby, figuring out the RP recipe and starting to post here. Sure, they'll shoot wedgies for a while, but given time, I suspect that some segment of them will broaden their horizons and we'll start to see some pretty spectacular photography. We already are. I remember a few years ago when some folks here were referring to Chase as a "kid with a camera". The last time I looked, that "kid" had something like 55 PCAs. I'll never live long enough to score that many. New talent doesn't take long to bloom.

[troy12n]

Originally Posted by Noct Foamer

OK, you have my attention. How can you do it?


Kent in SD

You send an email or PM to one of the administrators with the Image number, and eventually they delete it

It would be nice if you could just do it yourself, but it is what it is...

Also, I think the "enhanced" rejections have only been around for about a year, but I have not been too active lately

[bigbassloyd]

Originally Posted by Noct Foamer

OK, you have my attention. How can you do it?


Kent in SD

http://www.railpictures.net/contact/

select site administration

Tell them which ones to delete using the photo id.

Done.

Loyd L.

[Mberry]

Originally Posted by Decapod401

I would also be interested in how many got a killer rejection after the photographer responded to one or more correctable rejections. It seems to me that having a mechanism for screeners to look at outstanding rejections before issuing a PAQ would not be difficult to implement. If the first screener thought that the image was worthy enough to be corrected, a subsequent PAQ should not be allowed. If you don't like the image, just give it a PAQ in the first place. Nothing is more frustrating than getting a killer rejection after being given the impression that a correction will get the image accepted.

Couldn't agree more.....

[bigbassloyd]

75% of the photography accepted on here needs a killer rejection issued to it.



Loyd L.

[miningcamper1]

Originally Posted by bigbassloyd

75% of the photography accepted on here needs a killer rejection issued to it.



Loyd L.

That's why 47% is irrelevant. And why the purists need a site of their own (hopefully not this site).

I have no trouble at all finding the 5% of photos I like anywhere on the web, and I really don't need anyone filtering photos for me.

[Daniel MINACA]

Originally Posted by KevinM

I believe the number is significant because I can recall a time when more like 35% of submissions were accepted. I think it is indicative of the fact that RP now accepts a lot of images that would have been rejected several years ago. They are giving a fair bit more latitude on issues that used to be killers. Specifically, I see a lot of cloudy day and high sun images getting on, most notably, a lot of the recent 611 stuff. That's a good thing, because trains run 24-7, regardless of the weather or the elevation of the sun.

I agree with Kevin, now some other kind of pictures are possible...
For the 611 stuff, many are questionable !

Anyway, for me a cloudy picture should not be automatically poor regarding the subject and I consider that if the lighting and exposition are goods, is there a reason to reject it ?

It is the same for backlit, most often the mentioned reason for backlit rejection is that the nose don't have enough light... Sure that when it is a backlit picture, the nose is in "shadows" zone but may be that the lighting on the nose is correctly exposed and even visible as well.

And the best one rejection reason is the "poor aesthetic". Who are the screener to judge that a picture have a poor aesthetic ? It is their "taste", but their own personal vision are not the majority, it is "subjective" and certainly this picture should find its audience...

It is on this kind of non exhaustive cases above that screening rules MUST change, screeners are like a "too small private club" where there is no (never) dialogues with RPN members and that actions are too categorical.
The best example is regarding JM Frybourg know by everyone here have proposed "to open mind" to a non US screening team, but no response, or categorical negative response ! It is terrifying... Now he have left RPN and don't post any more... He is also not the only one to have left regarding this "mind closure"...

All is said !!

P.S. For the rule, doe's others non Elite members can't publish more than 2 pictures per day ? Is it only me who's restricted to this ? If yes may be I'm now a small banned member regarding forum bad messages

Daniel.

[troy12n]

Originally Posted by Daniel MINACA

I agree with Kevin, now some other kind of pictures are possible...
For the 611 stuff, many are questionable !

I was wondering too... seems like anything 611 is getting on. Which is weird, because I shot the 4501 on an excursion in November, the 2nd excursion since it was rebuilt, and got a bunch rejected including a "similar to previous", saw a lot worse of 611, and holy "similar" batman.

It is on this kind of non exhaustive cases above that screening rules MUST change, screeners are like a "too small private club" where there is no (never) dialogues with RPN members and that actions are too categorical.
The best example is regarding JM Frybourg know by everyone here have proposed "to open mind" to a non US screening team, but no response, or categorical negative response ! It is terrifying... Now he have left RPN and don't post any more... He is also not the only one to have left regarding this "mind closure"...

He left?

P.S. For the rule, doe's others non Elite members can't publish more than 2 pictures per day ? Is it only me who's restricted to this ? If yes may be I'm now a small banned member regarding forum bad messages

I can submit more than 2