Old 08-18-2006, 10:55 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by rpalmer
AMEN !

Be sure and send a copy to BNSF, suggesting that they implement the same policy on their line.
I will do that on Monday. Shooting Metra would be similar to me going out and taking 90 pictures on a Saturday of the new Charlotte light rail system....boringggggg. There are alot better railroads out there to shoot. Seen one Metra, seen em all!

I am not sure why folks are having troubles taking photos of trains and where these bans come from, down here in the South we have no problems. I guess folks are just more friendly down here. Matter fact I have been waved too by NS and local police departments almost every weekend I railfan.
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:16 AM   #27
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Exclamation

I just keep a scanner on all the time-I get called in, I'm outta there... just don't want the hassle.

Those of you that don't care because Metra is boring miss the point. In this upcoming police state, you guys out there need to make a public hue and cry.

So far here in Pa. we've been OK but where I go is in the sticks.

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Old 08-19-2006, 12:17 AM   #28
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Quote:
PUNX
Who's reporting marks are those?
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:37 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by trainmonster
In this upcoming police state, you guys out there need to make a public hue and cry.

***YAWN.***
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Old 08-19-2006, 03:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainmonster
I just keep a scanner on all the time-I get called in, I'm outta there... just don't want the hassle.

Those of you that don't care because Metra is boring miss the point. In this upcoming police state, you guys out there need to make a public hue and cry.

So far here in Pa. we've been OK but where I go is in the sticks.

Rich

Im not sure where all this is going on, down South we never have any problems with this type of stuff. Must be a regional problem. NS could care less about people taking photos, they are too busy keeping their trains on time! And btw, I know I said METRA is boring, but its moreso the type of photos that are often uploaded to make it boring. There are some photos of Metra that I actually clicked on. The wedges of this above ground subway make it lame.
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Old 08-19-2006, 05:11 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by trainmonster
Quote:
In this upcoming police state, you guys out there need to make a public hue and cry.
Posted by Hoydie17
Quote:
***YAWN.***
Consider this:
Quote:
The English philosopher Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing."
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Old 08-19-2006, 06:33 PM   #32
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If you're worried about the upcoming police state, just remember back to WW 2 where the amount of driving you could do was limited because of gas rationing or when you had to blackout your lights at night to avoid helping the enemy find a target. People actually sacrificed some freedoms to help the country...imagine if that mentality were around today...
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Old 08-19-2006, 08:10 PM   #33
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Consider this: The English philosopher Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing."

Good men are not sitting by with idle hands complaining on an internet forum. Good men are out exercising their rights as photographers and citizens of this great country. For every right you don't take advantage of is one they (The Police State) will justify taking away.

Consider your point considered.

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Old 08-19-2006, 08:12 PM   #34
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The constitution gives you freedom of speech and expression, it doesn't give you freedom to waste gas! In WWII, people sacrificed their material well being for the good of the country. Today, we are being asked to sacrifice our constitutional rights, but our leaders are not asking for any sacrifices that might actually make us uncomfortable.

I support real security measures that will actually make us safer, but I don't support phony measures designed just to make it look like someone is doing something. Anyone scoping out a Metra station is not going to be carrying a 35mm camera, they will have a cell phone or a palm video recorder or a lipstick cam that the guards will never see. But photos taken by a railfan just might be useful after the fact, should an incident ever occur.
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Old 08-19-2006, 09:02 PM   #35
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The constitution gives you freedom of speech and expression, it doesn't give you freedom to waste gas! In WWII, people sacrificed their material well being for the good of the country. Today, we are being asked to sacrifice our constitutional rights,
How is UP (a private company) banning photography from Metra stations (private property) violating your constitutional rights?

Quote:
Anyone scoping out a Metra station is not going to be carrying a 35mm camera, they will have a cell phone or a palm video recorder or a lipstick cam that the guards will never see.
And terrorists will not fly planes into our buildings either.
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Old 08-19-2006, 09:43 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Ru1056
How is UP (a private company) banning photography from Metra stations (private property) violating your constitutional rights?



And terrorists will not fly planes into our buildings either.
I agree, quit whining. Metra is probably like the majority of RP members, tired of seeing pictures of their RR on RP! Heres an idea for you guys, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO TAKE PHOTOS. There are 100's of miles of railroad to photograph up there. Its not illegal per-say to take a bottled coke on an airplane right now, but they wont let you do it. Things could be alot worse for photographers guys, just find somewhere else to shoot photos.
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Old 08-19-2006, 09:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ru1056
How is UP (a private company) banning photography from Metra stations (private property) violating your constitutional rights?

And terrorists will not fly planes into our buildings either.

A fair point. However, I fail to see how banning photography will stop terrorists from taking pictures of potential targets. I mean, they're not exactly known for their deep respect for the law.

If there's a ban, they'll still be out there, and if they get caught they'll pretend to be ignorant tourists or (God help us) railfans, and likely no one will put two and two together until after the fact. I can understand the scrutiny placed on people taking pictures of "sensitive" subjects, which is why I have no problem with police or security personal doing field interviews of photographers to find out what they’re about, and get their information for further investigation if something doesn’t seem right. But a policy like this penalizes the innocent while doing nothing to prevent terrorism. That’s just bad policy.

Also, regarding the constitutional issue, while UP may be a private company, Metra stations are, to the best of my knowledge, public areas in which banning photography would raise a definite 1st amendment question. Furthermore, any attempt to enforce the policy using UP police would throw the “private company” thing right out the window, because railroad police are sworn law enforcement personal, and are therefore under the same rules and constitutional obligations as municipal or state police.

Again, that’s all based on my understanding of Metra stations being public areas, which is probably a fairly contentious question.
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Old 08-19-2006, 10:02 PM   #38
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Quote:
The English philosopher Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing."
Using this quote allows the door to swing both ways:

1) For railfans, not protesting the ban leads to more 'constitutional rights' being taken away in the long run

-OR-

2) Not banning photography is UP/METRA/Whoever sitting on their laurels potentially allowing an attack that might otherwise be prevented.

Dang, I hate it when a cure-all quote can be used by both sides of an arguement!
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Old 08-19-2006, 10:02 PM   #39
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A fair point. However, I fail to see how banning photography will stop terrorists from taking pictures of potential targets. I mean, they're not exactly known for their deep respect for the law.
I agree too, just bringing another perspective to the table. Most of the responses seem to be that railfans are picked on, and the "Woe is us, we can't take pictures" crap. But as a former mass transit employee, I can say that people taking pictures are always looked at a little longer...right or wrong as that may be.

Quote:
Metra stations are, to the best of my knowledge, public areas in which banning photography would raise a definite 1st amendment question. .
It's not the place its the person that is doing the action in question. You can be in a city park lawfully demonstrating and a private citizen can attempt to tape your mouth shut with duct tape. You can have the person arrested on criminal charges, or sue them civily, but not for a violation of civil rights. Have a police officer take you into custody for lawfully demonstrating, or try to tape your mouth shut, and you have a civil rights issue. (among all that other crap I listed)
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Old 08-19-2006, 10:47 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ru1056
as a former mass transit employee, I can say that people taking pictures are always looked at a little longer...right or wrong as that may be.
On that, I have no problem. I in no way see it as a violation of my rights to have my activities placed under scrunity, or be (politely) questioned as to what I'm doing, be it by police, railroad/transit workers, or reguler people. And I also tend to have the eye-roll reaction when I hear people complain about this sort of contact ("the police officer ran my DL and took down my information! The police state is here!").
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Old 08-20-2006, 03:53 AM   #41
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And I also tend to have the eye-roll reaction when I hear people complain about this sort of contact ("the police officer ran my DL and took down my information! The police state is here!").
I think some people need to re-line the aluminum foil in their hat.

Just a part of railfannin I guess, it will happen time to time.
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Old 08-20-2006, 04:31 AM   #42
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Here, here SamD!!!

I agree, YAY NO MORE METRA PICTURES! Maybe photography of BNSF H2 dash-9s will be banned next *crosses fingers*

This could be put in the category of progress for progress sake. As long as someone appears to be doing something, it can be called "preventative" to terrorism. Im also getting sick of hearing that "we live in different times" stuff. I may be nieve citizen, but I dont see how banning photography of commuter trains improves the safety and security of this nation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a231pacific
Today, we are being asked to sacrifice our constitutional rights, but our leaders are not asking for any sacrifices that might actually make us uncomfortable.
Like hell I'm giving up any Constitutional rights and I think Americans are fools to let that happen. The Constitution is what defines America.

The USAPATRIOT is a little scary
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Old 08-20-2006, 04:45 AM   #43
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Apparently Metra's not THAT unpopular with the screeners...anyone seen the most recent Screener's Choice?

I leave my favorite Founding Father to give the send-off:

Quote:
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

-Benjamin Franklin
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Old 08-20-2006, 04:52 AM   #44
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Thats because Benjamin Franklin is one pimpin' Founding Father!
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Old 08-20-2006, 05:48 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by SD70MACMAN
Thats because Benjamin Franklin is one pimpin' Founding Father!
I hear in France they called him "Papa Ben"
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Old 08-20-2006, 06:34 AM   #46
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The French chicks loved him too...
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