Old 12-10-2006, 10:33 PM   #1
andy buckley
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Default Yet another rejection...

Tried submitting this one twice with adjustments but still rejected for over-exposure.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=314930

Would some kind soul please take pity on me and show me what I must do to make this acceptable (if it is possible)? Is it the top sign causing the trouble? It's made of reflective material and so does look rather bright... suggestions appreciated

The original out-of-the-camera file is here.

Thanks in anticipation

andyb
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:47 AM   #2
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Well, sorry to be disrespectful, but they are pretty clear, it's overexposed!!!

First, look at the sky. At the top, blue. Above the train, white. It's "blown out," which means overexposed to the point of being considered white by the camera, regardless of the read color. The original is white, and jpg. Can't be recovered, I am pretty sure. The ballast looks over exposed also.

BTW, the sky color is unattractive - looks as though saturation was pumped up, maybe only in the blue range or the cyan range. Not sure, just doesn't look quite right. Maybe just my taste.

I'm pretty sure the issue with overexposure is not just taste.

Nice idea with the composition. Shoot it again!
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:33 AM   #3
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Default Blown Pullman

Hi Andy,

The previous response is correct, the shot is over exposed and the colours, especially the sky has gone an awful cyan colour.

I don't think the shot is salvageable, but I have given it a go.

I've darkened the shot overall by 1 f stop, I selected the sky and change the hue of the cyan to a more pleasing tone. Then I darkened down the highlights a bit and put some grey tone in the blown whites.

Whilst I think this has improved the shot a little, it would be acceptable for a private collection only if the shot was unrepeatable. I do not think you could ever make this image file acceptable for RP.

That's a pity, because the idea behind the shot is a good one, you'll just have to track down the Pullman and try again.

Don't give up.


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File Type: jpg bluepullman moded small.jpg (197.8 KB, 360 views)

Last edited by alan-crotty; 12-12-2006 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Attachement failed ?
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:47 PM   #4
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Default Pullmans! - a dead loss it seems.... but thanks anyway

That's a shame guys but thanks for trying. :respect:

The whole morning was a bit of a dead loss anyway:thumbdown: I'd had a phonecall the previous evening from a friend who said that two 'specials' were going up the East Coast Mainline (ECML) - both heading north (both actually Christmas Market specials to Lincoln) - one at 09.10 and the other (the Blue Pullman) at 11.10am. The problem with the ECML is that it runs South-North (London to Edinburgh) for most of its way so this was always going to be a difficult shot with no chance of light 'on the nose'. But the train was special so worth an attempt.

With other commitments going on that morning I was going to have to slip out each time (the ECML is about 1/4 mile from me). I got to the lineside with a few minutes to spare only to find that the sun hadn't cleared a line of buildings alongside the track - so panic mode set in and I ran about 600 yards southward to see if I could get a clearer shot. Anyway, I found a footpath crossing which I hadn't known about beforehand. The ECML is dead straight at this point and both the countryside and track are dead level too - so a track level shot is the only option here. I could see the special approaching and only just had enough time to get the camera out of the case, point vaguely in the direction of the train, and shoot. (first attachment below - an EWS class 67 rather than the FMR 47 I was expecting + some rather nice maroon coaches). As you can see the sun hadn't made it above the horizon... so, disappointed, I left for home.

11am saw me setting off for the railway line again this time to catch the Blue Pullman. After waiting some time and snapping a few 'ordinary' service trains I saw what I took to be the 'Special' in the distance (it was about the correct time). To my surprise it wasn't the Blue Pullman but a 'chocolate and cream' Pullman that hove into view - I'm wondering if these were actually the carriages from the 'Orient Express'? - anyway I pressed the shutter (attachment 2) and thought "oh well, this must be a substitute for the Blue Pullman" and was about to set off home.

I then thought :lightbulb: having discovered the footpath crossing earlier, I would go and take a photo working the 'Stop Look Listen' sign into the picture - the idea being to use a slower shutter speed to blur the train to give an impression of 100mph + running (in fact 125 mph limit at this point). I composed the shot as far back from the line as the 6 foot anti-railfan fence would let me and waited for a train (I couldn't see up and down the line where I was). Of course after I had pressed the shutter I realised that the train going past was the 'Blue Pullman' running late ..... dammo! Feeling utterly depressed I went home.

I guess I set a shutter speed that took the exposure value out of the camera's range? - hence the overexposure. I had already lowered the ISO to 160 (following Christine's advice on another thread) so I'm thinking I'll have to try again with a higher shutter speed (and a correspondingly faster train!). In the olden days I would have perhaps tried a neutral density filter but I don't have one for this camera... hey ho!

andyb
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File Type: jpg DSCF0005_600.JPG (73.9 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF0003_600.JPG (89.3 KB, 130 views)

Last edited by andy buckley; 12-11-2006 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:13 AM   #5
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Default Missed the attachement

Sorry Andy,

I forgot the attachment!

Nice to see you got your Ropley phot on.

ALan
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:56 PM   #6
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Thanks Alan! I'm going to try a re-shoot of the footway-crossing idea... but thanks for trying!

Postscript - as it turns out the first (maroon) special to Lincoln was accepted too!

Image © Andy Buckley
PhotoID: 168308
Photograph © Andy Buckley


andyb

Last edited by andy buckley; 12-13-2006 at 12:47 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:33 PM   #7
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Well, Happy New Year everyone!

Due to illness and grotty weather in the UK for what seems like ages, today was the first sunny day that I've been able to get trackside. Encouraged by JRMDC's and alan-crotty's kind comments I thought I would try the foot crossing idea again.

Three shots (same subject) for your perusal and critical comment please guys. I'm hoping that one of these might be suitable for submission with your help - if you think I ought to try again please say so.

Image 3 is the same as image one but as a portrait.

Thanks in anticipation :thumbup:

andyb
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File Type: jpg stop1La.JPG (113.1 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg stop2a.JPG (115.5 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg stop3P.JPG (111.6 KB, 117 views)

Last edited by andy buckley; 01-19-2007 at 07:30 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 01-19-2007, 07:36 PM   #8
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Hi Andy,

Welcome back. I like the first and third shots. The second one is impressive for having gotten the pole between the wagons, but it doen't seem to make for a good photo.

On the first one, you might leave just a bit more room on the left side of the frame. The sign should be about 1/3 of the way in from the left edge and the nose of the unit should have a little bit more space in front of it. Otherwise, I like the shot and the 100mph warning certainly seems appropriate.

Your third shot is potentially the best, but the sign is a bit crooked and there may even be some lens distortion, as the sign seems curved. If it really is curved, there's not much you can do, but if it's a lens issue, PhotoShop CS2 has a filter for correcting lens distortion. Otherwise try rotating the photo just a bit to see if you can get the sign looking a bit better. Good luck with your shots.

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Old 01-19-2007, 09:23 PM   #9
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Ok - Michael thanks for the advice.

I've had another go at the first one and corrected the barrel distortion, rotated and recropped the picture so that the sign is about 1/3rd from the left. As the loco is hard up against the LH edge of the frame this was the only way I could think of doing it....

btw - the lettering on the side of the loco reads GNER for Great North Eastern Railway - but if you look quickly you might see GONNER in thedistortion. UK railfans will appreciate the appropriateness of this as GNER is being asked to give up it's franchise by the Govt.
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Old 01-19-2007, 10:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy buckley
btw - the lettering on the side of the loco reads GNER for Great North Eastern Railway - but if you look quickly you might see GONNER in thedistortion. UK railfans will appreciate the appropriateness of this as GNER is being asked to give up it's franchise by the Govt.
Haha. I was actually reading it as that, too. Seems rather apt, really!

As to who will win the new franchise, I've no idea. However, I certainly hope First Group don't win it. Not with the way they've handled FCC and FGW. Though, they have done well with First Transpennine. I'm willing to predict that NEx will win it. Though, I'm also predicting that they'll win the East Midlands franchise. Virgin will retain Cross Country. I don't know who will win the West Midlands franchise, though.

Anyhow, good luck with it!
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Old 01-19-2007, 11:16 PM   #11
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Default Welcome Back Andy

I like the first and third best, and now you've corrected the first that's my winner for composition. However I think the image quality lets it down. It is still over exposed to my eye.

I've tweaked the curve a tad and changed the He of the Cyan sky., what do you think?

UK weather has been bad, lost five roof tiles yesterday, off to the GCR on Monday to phot the Super D, there will be words said if the weather is unkind.

Callufrax, I love your DALEK, perhaps your trying to EXTERMINATE..... First Group!

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Old 01-19-2007, 11:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan-crotty
UK weather has been bad, lost five roof tiles yesterday, off to the GCR on Monday to phot the Super D, there will be words said if the weather is unkind.
According to BBC Weather, you should be ok for Leicester. But, from what I've come to learn, British weather forecasting changes from minute to minute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan-crotty
Callufrax, I love your DALEK, perhaps your trying to EXTERMINATE..... First Group!
Alan
Hah. Thanks. I didn't think of that, when I changed my avatar. Still, it suited my previous reply!
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Old 01-20-2007, 06:27 AM   #13
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It's just a pity that that dalek is of the 'new' breed!

On the subject of GNER being a goner - That's a pity, I rather liked it! Why's the government asking it to give up their franchise?
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainboysd40
It's just a pity that that dalek is of the 'new' breed!
Yeah, I'm still looking around for a decent one of an older version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainboysd40
On the subject of GNER being a goner - That's a pity, I rather liked it! Why's the government asking it to give up their franchise?
GNER have been asked to 'give back the keys', as they can no longer meet the commitments of its franchise agreement. Ironically, they're carrying more passengers than ever. It's all down to electricity charges, reduced compensation payouts from Network Rail (due to better track conditions), and so on. Then, of course, there's the fact that its parent company, Sea Containers, are currently in Chapter 11. GNER bid too high for its new franchise agreement, and the greedy Department for Transport accepted it.
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:19 PM   #15
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Default Rejected....

Well I've had three goes at submitting this - tried to match Alan's efforts, 1st time rejected for underexposure, 2nd attempt undersharpened, 3rd attempt poor image quality...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=329669

I've also had three more attempts at the lineside trying to capture the image but these things are moving at 125mph and, because of shutter lag, I haven't been able to catch the front of the loco where I want it - thinking about it I have other things I want to do... oh well....

Last edited by andy buckley; 01-22-2007 at 09:19 AM. Reason: hyperlink typo
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Old 01-21-2007, 08:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy buckley
Well I've had three goes at submitting this - tried to match Alan's efforts, 1st time rejected for underexposure, 2nd attempt undersharpened, 3rd attempt poor image quality...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewreject.php?id=329669

each time I've gone back to the original and started again

I've also had three more attempts at the lineside trying to capture the image but these things are moving at 125mph and, because of shutter lag, I haven't been able to catch the front of the loco where I want it - thinking about it I have other things I want to do... oh well....
It's a shame. I really like the concept. Better luck next time, I guess! How long's the shutter lag? I take it you've tried to take that into account, and tried to compensate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainboysd40
It's just a pity that that dalek is of the 'new' breed!
How's the updated avatar, then?
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Old 01-21-2007, 09:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
It's a shame. I really like the concept. Better luck next time, I guess! How long's the shutter lag? I take it you've tried to take that into account, and tried to compensate?
Thanks for the sympathy :thumbsup:

The most recent ones (which I haven't used -see below) I'm shooting at 6Mb tiff to try and keep the quality up - the one submitted before (and rejected for poor image quality) was 3Mb at ISO 160. Unfortunately the higher resolution setting seems to mean up to half a second lag (using Compact Flash 1 - slightly faster using Smartmedia but then limited to 128Mb) before the shutter goes.

I've tried to get around the shutter lag by selecting the 'last 5 frames' option which fires at 5 frames per second (once it gets going!) - then by trying to anticipate when the train is just over 1/2 a second away one hopes that at least one frame will capture it.... the closest I got is below.

Thinking about it I might have a better result if I turn the autofocus off and shoot on manuel focus...

I suppose I could even dust off the old Canon A1 and motor drive and then scan the results in....
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:08 AM   #18
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I think the point everyone is missing is: Why is speed measured in miles per hour across the pond????
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callufrax
How's the updated avatar, then?
Eeeeexcellent!
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Old 01-22-2007, 05:23 PM   #20
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Thumbs up Well I'm blowed!!

Just thought I'd try once more after reading JRMDC's 'Workflow' thread; but this time ran the image through a friend's copy of Neat Image, and guess what:

Image © Andy Buckley
PhotoID: 172593
Photograph © Andy Buckley



Thanks for the inspiration Guys!!
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Old 01-22-2007, 05:32 PM   #21
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Great work on getting it in!
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Old 01-22-2007, 05:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy buckley
Just thought I'd try once more after reading JRMDC's 'Workflow' thread; but this time ran the image through a friend's copy of Neat Image, and guess what:
Glad to see that thread got some use - I wrote the first entry in that to initiate a discussion, following the suggestion of someone - Ween? Anyway, it died on the vine, glad it helped someone.
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:26 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy buckley
Just thought I'd try once more after reading JRMDC's 'Workflow' thread; but this time ran the image through a friend's copy of Neat Image, and guess what:


Thanks for the inspiration Guys!!
Cool work Andy,

Now for your next assignment I want you to take a picture of that sign from the inside of one those high speed trains.

Thinks to ones self 'That should keep him busy for a while' Mawhahaha
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:02 AM   #24
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I think this one deserves a special persistence award! Congrats.

Interesting about GNER being a GONNER. My major recollection of GNER is showing up with a reservation and finding no carriage with that number. The good news is the train was empty so my wife and I had no problem finding a seat.

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Old 01-23-2007, 10:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Now for your next assignment I want you to take a picture of that sign from the inside of one those high speed trains.
This thread will self-destruct in five seconds

dum ... dum... dah-dah, dum ... dum... dah-dah (etc)

Goodness Christine - I hadn't realised your dark side could be this dark...

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