Old 08-31-2009, 02:27 AM   #1
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Default Why did they go extinct nearly?

First of all does UP 6936 the only DDA40X, is it still running? So why did such beautiful locomotives go away? I am pretty much a noob when it comes to these things, but why did such a marvelous train go away from service?
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:39 AM   #2
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Well, aesthetics don't run trains. If so, BNSF would still be painting their units red and silver.
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:00 AM   #3
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I believe the short answer is that they tried a specialized unit, didn't get the results they wanted. The DDA40X is basically two engines combined together with one cab. So two prime movers, four trucks, one frame. As I recall it, they decided that it was more efficient to have two separate locomotives and have greater flexibility in operations. (For example, one engine breaks down, the entire thing goes in the shop.)

But I don't know, that is just some (vague?) recollections of something I read.
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:45 PM   #4
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The DD40's walkways were higher than a typical unit so they needed a shop with bays specifically modified to maintain them. The trucks were four axle, eight wheel monstrosities that were unique to the breed, plus a host of other differences existed between them and other "off the shelf" models. This added cost to their operation and in many ways, restricted them to operating between specific shops.

In the end, UP found that, like most roads, the 3000 HP locomotive building block was the way to go concerning future motive power needs and ordered hundreds of SD40/SD40-2's and U30C/C30-7's that were "off the shelf" models. Customization and uniqueness killed the double diesel.

Today we have 4300 and 4400 HP building blocks... the AC60 and SD90MAC have gone the way of the DD's for the most part. History repeating...
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:45 AM   #5
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Today we have 4300 and 4400 HP building blocks... the AC60 and SD90MAC have gone the way of the DD's for the most part. History repeating...
The SD90s, yes, but the 6000d are (thankfully!) very much alive and kicking on CSX.
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Old 09-06-2009, 05:53 AM   #6
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The SD90s, yes, but the 6000d are (thankfully!) very much alive and kicking on CSX.
Yes but are the ac6000 actually at 6000 horse? cause the UP has derated all of them down to 4400.
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:21 AM   #7
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I believe all of CSX's 600 series AC60's are still 6000HP, but unfortunately most are currently stored..............
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Old 09-06-2009, 07:00 PM   #8
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The SD90s, yes, but the 6000d are (thankfully!) very much alive and kicking on CSX.
I saw plenty of SD90MACs in California last week.
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:37 PM   #9
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I saw plenty of SD90MACs in California last week.
Because they're SD9043ACs now. In other words, de-rated to 4300 hp...
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:46 PM   #10
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Because they're SD9043ACs now. In other words, de-rated to 4300 hp...
Ah, ok. Well, they still LOOK like SD90s.
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Old 09-08-2009, 03:52 PM   #11
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Ah, ok. Well, they still LOOK like SD90s.
Those were never 6000hp units. AFAIK, all were built as 4300hp and never "up-graded".

FWIW, I recall reading that the CSX AC60's were going to have 16 FDL's installed and made into AC4400's. I have no idea if this is true or if this was done... I don't follow CSX.

The DD's were non-standard units in a world of moving towards greater standardization for economys sake. Like the 6000hp experiments, the DD's fell victim to their own uniqueness. Anyone can split hairs if they must re: 6000hp units and that some are still out there, but the fact is they are a failure and the market bears testimony to that. Thousands of 4300 and 4400hp locomotives have been built since the 6000hp units were introduced.
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Old 09-08-2009, 06:47 PM   #12
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CSX's AC6000CWs are currently being upgraded (courtesy of GE) with 16 cylinder 6,000 HP EVO prime-movers. Only one unit, 699, ever had its prime-mover replaced with a 16 cylinder FDL (there is some speculation as to whether or not it will have the new 6,000 HP prime-mover installed in it). CSX has been slowly pulling some of these units out of storage as the economy picks up a bit (at least in terms of rail traffic). Once we're out of this recession, you'll see them going back to their old haunts. Oh how I miss seeing pairs of these making easy work of any train CSX could throw at them...

Regarding the SD90MACs, yes, all of UP's are the 4,300 HP versions (the same as later SD70MACs and SD70ACes/SD70M-2s [most of them anyway]). Many of UP's 6,000 HP versions went back to EMD (AFAIK, UP gets a lot of their power on a "lease-to-own" basis, and when these came off their lease, they sent them back to EMD), and after bouncing around on the KCS and B&P are now being scrapped. CP's 6000 HP models are either in storage or scrapped as well, I don't recall specifically.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:48 PM   #13
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What is the reason for the CSX AC6000's being reengined? They have only been in service what now, 15 years at the most? I guess this means they will be getting YN3 when they are rebuilt too, what a shame. For me they will loose most of their appeal when this happens, I always liked the special YN2 AC60 scheme and the sound of these units was some of the best of any modern GE with the 6000 HP FDL and the scream of the traction motors, now they will just look and sound like GEVO's.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:50 PM   #14
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I believe all of CSX's 600 series AC60's are still 6000HP, but unfortunately most are currently stored..............
I noticed that I hadn't seen any in so long...that explains it!
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:27 PM   #15
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Last I heard, CP's four 6000hp SD90MAC's (9300-9303) are retired and for sale. All of their SD9043MAC's are stored (61 units, 9100-9160 all 4300hp) account low traffic levels and should return to service when things get better, but seeing that CP has stored many AC4400's, the 9100's could be parked for a while yet as the GE's will likely return first. I know alot of CP's GEVO's were stored too, but I think this was related to turbo issues and they are merely being cycled through for work.

Remember, the DD40's were parked, then reactivated for one final hurrah. Those CSX AC60's might find the same fate. Alot is dependant on what the purchase agreement was between CSX and GE. If GE is on the hook for repairs to these units, CSX has little incentive to get rid of them. It could also be that CSX is keeping them on short leashes and close to homebase, so they get better attention from shop forces well aquainted with them. Sometimes it's merely a case of shop (and train crew) framiliarity that makes or breaks a locomotive.
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:51 PM   #16
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What is the reason for the CSX AC6000's being reengined? They have only been in service what now, 15 years at the most? I guess this means they will be getting YN3 when they are rebuilt too, what a shame. For me they will loose most of their appeal when this happens, I always liked the special YN2 AC60 scheme and the sound of these units was some of the best of any modern GE with the 6000 HP FDL and the scream of the traction motors, now they will just look and sound like GEVO's.
They sound the same as they did before...same traction motors, same carbody, even the same paint. Unless you open up the hood, you won't be able to tell the difference. The prime-mover in the AC6000CWs was the HDL, not the FDL...and since CSX's AC6000CWs were the only units that had it (aside from whatever international mining outfits), GE found it would be far easier to put EVO prime-movers in them, thus being able to do away with all the needed extra parts, tools, training, etc. for warranty work on a little over 100 units. It's a big plus, as it'll help ensure that these AC6000CWs will be around for a while longer yet.
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:51 AM   #17
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They sound the same as they did before...same traction motors, same carbody, even the same paint. Unless you open up the hood, you won't be able to tell the difference. The prime-mover in the AC6000CWs was the HDL, not the FDL...and since CSX's AC6000CWs were the only units that had it (aside from whatever international mining outfits), GE found it would be far easier to put EVO prime-movers in them, thus being able to do away with all the needed extra parts, tools, training, etc. for warranty work on a little over 100 units. It's a big plus, as it'll help ensure that these AC6000CWs will be around for a while longer yet.
The EVO prime mover is based on the HDL prime mover. The EVO corrects many design flaws which plagued the HDL and resulted in its downfall. Visually both prime movers look virtually identical and have the same footprint and the same displacement. This makes for a fairly simple engine swap in the CSX and BHP Billiton AC6000CW's. Union Pacific has chosen to repower its 80 AC6000CW's, #7500-7579, with 16 cylinder FDL prime movers, which essentially turns them into AC6044CW convertibles.
When all is said and done, the CSX AC6000CW's will be the only 6000hp units in regular service the United States. There will still be 41 EMLX SD90MAC-H's which currently face an uncertain future. The 21 SD90MAC-H's owned outright by UP are being stripped and scrapped and the AC6000CW's being repowered with 4400hp FDL's as I already mentioned. The 4 CP SD90MAC-H's were retired in November 2008 and listed for sale.

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Old 09-14-2009, 12:41 PM   #18
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The 21 SD90MAC-H's owned outright by UP are being stripped and scrapped...
Nooooooooooooo!
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:16 PM   #19
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Default Current Railfan Mag has an article on double diesels

The current Railfan Mag. (the issue with Duluth NRHS convention) has an article on the DD35/A and it addresses some of the problems with the units and why they fell out of favor. Everything said out the DD35 applies to the 40 model. And I even learned of a model that was offered but did not get built.

Pick up a copy as the author worked for the builder.

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Old 09-27-2009, 12:38 AM   #20
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CSX's AC6000CWs are currently being upgraded (courtesy of GE) with 16 cylinder 6,000 HP EVO prime-movers. Only one unit, 699, ever had its prime-mover replaced with a 16 cylinder FDL (there is some speculation as to whether or not it will have the new 6,000 HP prime-mover installed in it). CSX has been slowly pulling some of these units out of storage as the economy picks up a bit (at least in terms of rail traffic). Once we're out of this recession, you'll see them going back to their old haunts. Oh how I miss seeing pairs of these making easy work of any train CSX could throw at them...

Regarding the SD90MACs, yes, all of UP's are the 4,300 HP versions (the same as later SD70MACs and SD70ACes/SD70M-2s [most of them anyway]). Many of UP's 6,000 HP versions went back to EMD (AFAIK, UP gets a lot of their power on a "lease-to-own" basis, and when these came off their lease, they sent them back to EMD), and after bouncing around on the KCS and B&P are now being scrapped. CP's 6000 HP models are either in storage or scrapped as well, I don't recall specifically.
The CPs have been retired for some time waiting to be scrapped as soon as the torch can handle them.
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Old 09-27-2009, 08:58 AM   #21
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The CPs have been retired for some time waiting to be scrapped as soon as the torch can handle them.
The CP SD90MAC-H's were retired in November 2008 and placed for sale. They are still on CP property and have not been scrapped. The future is uncertain for these 4 units.

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Old 09-27-2009, 12:38 PM   #22
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The CP SD90MAC-H's were retired in November 2008 and placed for sale. They are still on CP property and have not been scrapped. The future is uncertain for these 4 units.

Bryan Jones
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If anyone thought they had the guts to maintain them they'd be great for a regional to purchase!
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:33 PM   #23
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This video shouyld speak for the unit's problems! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITrIQ...eature=related
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:43 PM   #24
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Default More DDA40X coverage in Railfan.

The next issue of Railfan ( the issue after the Duluth coverage) has a second part article on the DDA40X to followup the DD35 coverage for the issue before.

This issue as a DDA40x on the cover.
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